MN: Police officer shoots kills CHL in traffic stop streamed live on Facebook as he dies

[LSUTiger]

This is not good.

Probably a nervous nelly officer who got little too twitchy here.

Prayers for the family, especially the children.

I can attest to that!

Re: LEO Disarming You
Postby LSUTiger » Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:16 pm

I had a LEO disarm me during a traffic stop in Podunk, Louisiana for driving while "Texan" when visiting relatives. That nervous nelly needs to find a desk job, but I digress. (but the PO PO has a dangerous job, blah blah blah blah blah...)

It's the closest I've come to ever getting shot, I thought he was going to shoot me in the butt as I assumed the position and he tried to retrieve the gun from my IWB holster carried at my 4'oclock.

I was glad when it was over that I still had a place to sit.

That's why I hate any police interaction, it always has the potential to go bad. If you scratch your butt the wrong way you might take a bullet.


and more about the same incident


quote="LSUTiger"]About two weekends ago I was driving back alone from Louisiana to Texas after visiting family in the hospital. I was on I-10 heading West in between New Orleans and Lafayette, when a St. Martinville Parish deputy pulled me over for speeding (81 in a 70, $264 of justice, OUCH!).

The officer got on the loud speaker and instructed me to get out of my pickup truck. I was carrying on my person of course. He motioned me to get in between my truck and his car so we weren't as close to the highway. At that point I informed him that I was carrying a firearm on my person and handed him my TX DL and CHL (I believe its mandatory in LA and wanted to avoid any "miscommunications", but otherwise he was not aware I was armed).

He instructed me to turn around and put my hands on the back of the truck. (That made me nervous.) Then he proceeded to disarm me himself. He couldn't pull the gun from the holster at first (I thought I was going to get shot in the butt!) But then he managed after I told him it wasn't a safety retention holster and leaned a little to the left and he got it out.

He told me he would return my firearm to me after the stop was over and then proceeded to put it in his car and give me the ticket without more words than were needed.

That was the quickest ticket I ever recieved, I mean the first ticket . No speeches, no fishing around for information, just ticket writing.

He gave me the ticket and instructed me to open the back door and get in the vehicle. I open the back passenger door of my crew cab pickup got into the front drivers side. He approached the truck and leaned in placing the unloaded gun on the seat behind me and opened the front door and place the loaded magazine in the glove compartment and closed both passenger side doors and returned to his car.

I have no problems with him disarming me but I do have a problem getting shot in the butt because an AD/ND! It also ticks me off that in order to get my firearm back I had to allow him access into my vehicle. I could have offered an alternative solution like leaving it on my bed cover but I just wanted to get it over with so I didn't care and he seemed way more nervous than me. Both happy to get rid of each other, but still, he was a tricky son of a gun for that! [/quote]

[parabelum]

LSUTiger,

That's a wild stop. Glad everyone walked away unharmed.

For LEO's on this forum a question I have... do you notice or have you noticed an uptick in rookies coming in who are book smart collage grads with little to no street smarts, while those who may not necessarily have a degree but who are ex-military / street savvy, maybe even with full sleeve tattoos are getting rejected?

I think the question is loaded, but I have a hunch, based on what I have heard and seen, that due to various bureaucratic reasons and general breakdown in true leadership, we have a whole lot of officers out on the streets who would have never gotten hired on even as recent as late 90's. Seems that officers then had more grit and stamina and were equipped with more composure to operate under stress.

[WTR]

LSUTiger,

That's a wild stop. Glad everyone walked away unharmed.

For LEO's on this forum a question I have... do you notice or have you noticed an uptick in rookies coming in who are book smart collage grads with little to no street smarts, while those who may not necessarily have a degree but who are ex-military / street savvy, maybe even with full sleeve tattoos are getting rejected?

I think the question is loaded, but I have a hunch, based on what I have heard and seen, that due to various bureaucratic reasons and general breakdown in true leadership, we have a whole lot of officers out on the streets who would have never gotten hired on even as recent as late 90's. Seems that officers then had more grit and stamina and were equipped with more composure to operate under stress.

I know that Texas DPS Troopers are the most polite and profession acting Officers I have dealt with. I don't know about the current requirements, but when I was young, the DPS required 60 hours of college level courses before you could apply to an academy.

[parabelum]

LSUTiger,

That's a wild stop. Glad everyone walked away unharmed.

For LEO's on this forum a question I have... do you notice or have you noticed an uptick in rookies coming in who are book smart collage grads with little to no street smarts, while those who may not necessarily have a degree but who are ex-military / street savvy, maybe even with full sleeve tattoos are getting rejected?

I think the question is loaded, but I have a hunch, based on what I have heard and seen, that due to various bureaucratic reasons and general breakdown in true leadership, we have a whole lot of officers out on the streets who would have never gotten hired on even as recent as late 90's. Seems that officers then had more grit and stamina and were equipped with more composure to operate under stress.

I know that Texas DPS Troopers are the most polite and profession acting Officers I have dealt with. I don't know about the current requirements, but when I was young, the DPS required 60 hours of college level courses before you could apply to an academy.

I agree on TX DPS. Every encounter I've personally had with TX State Trooper has been 100% positive with no issues whatsoever.

[philip964]

LSUTiger,

That's a wild stop. Glad everyone walked away unharmed.

For LEO's on this forum a question I have... do you notice or have you noticed an uptick in rookies coming in who are book smart collage grads with little to no street smarts, while those who may not necessarily have a degree but who are ex-military / street savvy, maybe even with full sleeve tattoos are getting rejected?

I think the question is loaded, but I have a hunch, based on what I have heard and seen, that due to various bureaucratic reasons and general breakdown in true leadership, we have a whole lot of officers out on the streets who would have never gotten hired on even as recent as late 90's. Seems that officers then had more grit and stamina and were equipped with more composure to operate under stress.

I know that Texas DPS Troopers are the most polite and profession acting Officers I have dealt with. I don't know about the current requirements, but when I was young, the DPS required 60 hours of college level courses before you could apply to an academy.

I agree on TX DPS. Every encounter I've personally had with TX State Trooper has been 100% positive with no issues whatsoever.

I agree on TX Law Enforcement. Every encounter I've had with the police here in Texas has been very professional.


The news is reporting that the man was still seat belted in the car.

[WTR]

The video I watched clearly shows him seat belted in.

[parabelum]

I was just now able to watch and hear the extensive stream/video.

This officer is one sorry piece of garbage, and I see him no different then the thugs who executed Finnicum.
You can even hear him curse afterwards at himself because he knows he messed up bad.

This gentleman had been requested to show identification and he complied, officer knew he was licensed to carry. Lady in video showed great strength and did not lose it until the reality of situation kicked in.

I hope this piece of garbage thug in uniform gets a murder charge for what he did.

He just embarrassed and denigrated all fine honorable officers who execute their task with diligence and professional restraint.

Not good.

[parabelum]

The video I watched clearly shows him seat belted in.

Yes. He was seat belted and got shot four times point blank, one round looks like it exploded his arm.

All while the child was in the backseat and this gentleman was lawfully carrying his sidearm for which he did not reach.

And yes, in this case I believe that this was race related. By my digging in, the only thing this man did wrong was being black.

The way he reached for his identification was not threatening, and they were all compliant. Cop overreacted because this man was black.

I know I'm gonna get pounded for this, but again, it is what it is.

[AJSully421]

[Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton jump on their phones to find the next flight from Baton Rouge to Minnesota.]

Jesse and Al may have something to actually complain about with this one.

Unlike the videotaped police shooting the day before with this one there is no mention of the dead man being combative or confrontational. So in this case was the mans race a factor or was it the fact he was a CHL.

Agreed, we don't have as much to go on, but it really seems like this cop just got jumpy and shot. Also a good lesson in being careful while carrying and reaching for things in the car during a traffic stop. It might not be your fault, but you are still shot.

My comment was directed, humorously, at the fact that these two are disciples of the "never let a crisis go to waste" idea. But, I don't really know what is in it for them... when a regular guy shoots a black kid, they can harp on gun bans, getting rid of "stand your ground" and rile agains concealed carry and such. When a cop shoots a kid, they really cannot advocate for jerking the guns away from the cops, they cannot get traction against assault rifles... what is in it for them that they have to go berserk every time? But rest assured, they will go berserk, every time.

[Blindref757]

I watched the entire Facebook video...the girl changes her story at least 3 times while the camera is running. First she says 4 shots, later she says 3 shots, and then a third time, she says 4 or 5 shots. Additionally, she said he was just reaching for his wallet when he was shot, but later in the video, she says the officer told him not to reach for his wallet (or gun). If this turns out to be somewhat correct, and the guy disobeyed the officer's order not to reach into his back pocket...he will not face prosecution and this will be a somewhat justified shoot. OTOH...I think if a guy tells you that he has a CHL, you as an officer need to give him the benefit of the doubt and see that he has a wallet or a gun before you start shooting. You have a vest and a duty to protect...not shoot first with a guy holding a wallet. Unfortunately, there isn't video evidence of the most important part of this incident. It is extremely important to proceed exactly as the officer directs...if you don't, it may be the last mistake you ever make.

I also think it is critically important for all of us to withhold judgement until the officer has the opportunity to get his side out there. I remember when Darren Wilson was convicted by the media and then when his side of the story came out, the evidence was overwhelmingly in his favor and Michael Brown was just another gang member that bit off more than he could chew.

[LAYGO]

This event disturbs me the most. I believe it'll be a jumpy officer at fault for this, whether he's indicted/convicted is another story.

If I had to guess, both parties are going to have some fault. I believe I heard the woman say "he had a firearm". That probably sent the officers adrenalin thru the roof. I've been instructed to inform the officer that I have a CHL/LTC, never use "gun" or "firearm". If the sentence was framed as "I have a firearm and a license", the officer probably never heard "license" & probably immediately following the "can I see some ID?" & Phil was continuing his motion for the ID.

(That above probably reads jumbly, soooo . . . )

"Can I see some ID?"

*starts motion for wallet*
'Yes, I have a firearm and a license to carry"

"DON'T REACH FOR IT! STOP!"

*BANG BANG BANG BANG*

I don't even bother telling the officers I'm armed, I just give them my CHL. In the few stops I've had since getting my license, a couple of them were like "I don't need this" after immediately discerning what it is.

When asked for ID, I say "it's in my front left pocket" & await his confirmation. I don't dig around for it before the officer walks up because it can set off a nervous nelly with all this motion. I just sit still & wait. Just IMHO . . .

[LAYGO]

Also, while searching for context in the video, I stumbled upon this link which would change the context in which the traffic stop was conducted:
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/20 ... -killings/

It also says he was not a legitimate concealed carrier, but we'll see if more info on that comes to light.

I think the article is also stretching it in that they can determine that's a "pistol" on his lap from the video still.

[philip964]

In Texas when I have been stopped the officer always stands at the front edge of the back seat door. Somewhat behind me.

This seems to be an excellent defensive position, he can see me, but I am in an ockward position to see him as he is behind.

In the video the officer is at the front edge of the drivers door.

I don't understand why he was in this position. Maybe police in MN are not trained as well.

[philip964]

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/b ... -by-police

I will have to see if I can find other sources. The man may not have been a CHL in MN. He was stopped as he matched the description of a suspect in an armed robbery that had occurred in the area. With the broken tail light, the officer said he had a reason to stop him and check his ID. This may explain the officers nervousness for what was apparently not a normal stop.

http://eastsidereviewnews.com/articles/ ... ence-store Article on Convenience store robbery July 2, 2016.

http://kstp.com/news/philando-castile-r ... 7/?cat=127 Local report with Lawyer saying he was stopped as he met the description of a suspect in a robbery.

CHL registration is private in MN, so no one can know for sure. I assume it will come out eventually.

[WTR]

I was just now able to watch and hear the extensive stream/video.

This gentleman had been requested to show identification and he complied, officer knew he was licensed to carry. Lady in video showed great strength and did not lose it until the reality of situation kicked in.

I don't think showed any "strength" at all. Had that been me and my wife, she would have been ripping my T Shirt off and applying pressure to my wounds. Even if I had been dying she would have been comforting me, not callously thinking about live streaming me on Facebook while I writhed in pain