Need suggestion on how to proceed

[twomillenium]

Keep in mind when they say '60 days' they mean business/working days. So 60 days translates to a few days short of 3 calendar months. And the clock doesn't start until they've received EVERYTHING they need submitted.

The LAW doesn't say 60 "business days". It says 60 days. I'd hate to be sentenced to 30 days in jail only to find out that weekends and state holidays don't count.

If you are let out on the weekends and holidays then it would be business days. The dept. does not work on LTC apps on weekends and state holidays.

[ScottDLS]

Keep in mind when they say '60 days' they mean business/working days. So 60 days translates to a few days short of 3 calendar months. And the clock doesn't start until they've received EVERYTHING they need submitted.

The LAW doesn't say 60 "business days". It says 60 days. I'd hate to be sentenced to 30 days in jail only to find out that weekends and state holidays don't count.

If you are let out on the weekends and holidays then it would be business days. The dept. does not work on LTC apps on weekends and state holidays.

The law specifies the number of days:

GC §411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.
(a) On receipt of application
...
Not later than the 30th day after the date the department receives the application

(b) The director’s designee
...
shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 60th day after the date
...

It's a time frame specified, not a number of working days. However there is no penalty for not meeting the time frame. In some states, the state must issue the card in a set time regardless of whether the investigation is done or not.

But the statute defines the time period in days, not work days, business days, non-holidays, hours, etc.

[twomillenium]

Keep in mind when they say '60 days' they mean business/working days. So 60 days translates to a few days short of 3 calendar months. And the clock doesn't start until they've received EVERYTHING they need submitted.

The LAW doesn't say 60 "business days". It says 60 days. I'd hate to be sentenced to 30 days in jail only to find out that weekends and state holidays don't count.

If you are let out on the weekends and holidays then it would be business days. The dept. does not work on LTC apps on weekends and state holidays.

The law specifies the number of days:

GC §411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.
(a) On receipt of application
...
Not later than the 30th day after the date the department receives the application

(b) The director’s designee
...
shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 60th day after the date
...

It's a time frame specified, not a number of working days. However there is no penalty for not meeting the time frame. In some states, the state must issue the card in a set time regardless of whether the investigation is done or not.

But the statute defines the time period in days, not work days, business days, non-holidays, hours, etc.

I agree with what your saying, I was just using your apple / oranges reasoning and applying the differences. The main thing is there is no penalty, I think the spirit of the law was for intentional or malicious delay, not for an under employed department that is suddenly overwhelmed with an inordinate surge in applications. Even though that is not made clear.

[ScottDLS]

Yep, pretty much what I thought.

[16Adams]

I think they need to bring back civics and can social studies. Texas state agencies can't F*rt without the legislature telling them which cheek to raise. When a person calls in and complains to a lawmaker or the executive branch they are complaining to them about them. DPS just keeps building a mansion with nothing but a hammer.

A perfect storm of anti 2A rhetoric on a national level coupled with terrorist events everybody slammed DPS with LTC apps before during and after the 2015 Holiday season. DPS is running in a budget set a couple years prior to that.

When I first joined this board apps where running 60-75 business days. Based on some that have posted their timelines its Down around 44-48 business days. Some quicker some longer. Some ahead some behind others- again when you look at what must be checked it's obvious all in all out on the same day is not going to happen.

I actually wish Texas was constitutional carry with the same right to carry anywhere a Texas Peace officer can. I also want world peace, probably not going to get either wish.

DPS is getting them out quicker, be patient, it will come b

[txyaloo]

Keep in mind when they say '60 days' they mean business/working days. So 60 days translates to a few days short of 3 calendar months. And the clock doesn't start until they've received EVERYTHING they need submitted.

The LAW doesn't say 60 "business days". It says 60 days. I'd hate to be sentenced to 30 days in jail only to find out that weekends and state holidays don't count.

If you are let out on the weekends and holidays then it would be business days. The dept. does not work on LTC apps on weekends and state holidays.

The law specifies the number of days:

GC §411.176. REVIEW OF APPLICATION MATERIALS.
(a) On receipt of application
...
Not later than the 30th day after the date the department receives the application

(b) The director’s designee
...
shall complete the record check and investigation not later than the 60th day after the date
...

It's a time frame specified, not a number of working days. However there is no penalty for not meeting the time frame. In some states, the state must issue the card in a set time regardless of whether the investigation is done or not.

But the statute defines the time period in days, not work days, business days, non-holidays, hours, etc.

I agree with what your saying, I was just using your apple / oranges reasoning and applying the differences. The main thing is there is no penalty, I think the spirit of the law was for intentional or malicious delay, not for an under employed department that is suddenly overwhelmed with an inordinate surge in applications. Even though that is not made clear.

There is a penalty. DPS just doesn't follow the law. If after 60 days a license hasn't been granted, DPS has to either grant the license, deny the license, or send a letter to the applicant telling them why there's a delay. I don't know anyone who has received a letter. Any application pending more than 90 days is considered a denial.

Sec. 411.177. ISSUANCE OR DENIAL OF LICENSE. (a) The department shall issue a license to carry a handgun to an applicant if the applicant meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials. The department shall administer the licensing procedures in good faith so that any applicant who meets all the eligibility requirements and submits all the application materials shall receive a license. The department may not deny an application on the basis of a capricious or arbitrary decision by the department.
(b) The department shall, not later than the 60th day after the date of the receipt by the director's designee of the completed application materials:
(1) issue the license;
(2) notify the applicant in writing that the application was denied:
(A) on the grounds that the applicant failed to qualify under the criteria listed in Section 411.172;
(B) based on the affidavit of the director's designee submitted to the department under Section 411.176(c); or
(C) based on the affidavit of the qualified handgun instructor submitted to the department under Section 411.188(k); or
(3) notify the applicant in writing that the department is unable to make a determination regarding the issuance or denial of a license to the applicant within the 60-day period prescribed by this subsection and include in that notification an explanation of the reason for the inability and an estimation of the amount of time the department will need to make the determination.
(c) Failure of the department to issue or deny a license for a period of more than 30 days after the department is required to act under Subsection (b) constitutes denial.
(d) A license issued under this subchapter is effective from the date of issuance.

[twomillenium]

Well in the Dept.'s credit they are not (as far as I know) doing the 90 day denial. I agree tho, the Dept. should at least notify a delay of more than 60 days. Even if it is on the online status, at least the applicant will know that their application is being processed.

[CrimsonSoul]

I waited for mine for about half a year, finally I told them I wanted a court hearing because by law after 60 days if you don't hear anything then it means it's denied. They approved it and overnighter it to me the next day

[rtschl]

When I applied for my CHL in 2009 many of us were also a victim of the popularity of so many getting licenses at the same time. If memory serves me correctly my wait was about 115 days.

[steveincowtown]

Everyone calm down. You will notice that at the end of the 2nd Amendment it says "shall not be infringed after 60 days".

[kellyborgman]

My wife and I submitted at the same time, took the classes at the same time. The wife kept asking when we were going to get plastic, I found this website and found how long others were waiting and told her to chill !LOL ! Yes it took me from mid to late March to late May until I got my plastic. The wife's plastic took a couple of days longer. She was happy for me but gave me the ugh, why is it taking so long. Too funny, but I never called, but waited as best i could. I knew that there were a lot of people applying, but I never expected some to go to 90 days or more.

[RossA]

The process is tremendously more automated and computerized now than it was years ago. People don't have to visually examine fingerprint cards, the electronic fingerprint machine automatically tells you whether a print is acceptable or not. People don't have to manually handle stacks of handwritten paperwork, it's e-applications now.
Even though there are more applicants, the process should have speeded everything up so much that the system can handle the extra work.

[wrinkles]

My first application took 115 days.

My thought on the, after 30 days I want a letter sent to me notifying me of a delay. This only causes more delays since now there is staff working on those letters instead of the the actual processing.

[rotor]

I think they need to bring back civics and can social studies. Texas state agencies can't F*rt without the legislature telling them which cheek to raise. When a person calls in and complains to a lawmaker or the executive branch they are complaining to them about them. DPS just keeps building a mansion with nothing but a hammer.

A perfect storm of anti 2A rhetoric on a national level coupled with terrorist events everybody slammed DPS with LTC apps before during and after the 2015 Holiday season. DPS is running in a budget set a couple years prior to that.

When I first joined this board apps where running 60-75 business days. Based on some that have posted their timelines its Down around 44-48 business days. Some quicker some longer. Some ahead some behind others- again when you look at what must be checked it's obvious all in all out on the same day is not going to happen.

I actually wish Texas was constitutional carry with the same right to carry anywhere a Texas Peace officer can. I also want world peace, probably not going to get either wish.

DPS is getting them out quicker, be patient, it will come b

What do they have to check? You submit your fingerprints and I assume the FBI or whatever (CIA??) reviews them and you are either OK or not. You can purchase a gun with a single "instant" background check in 10 minutes. They have a copy of your CHL certificate. You have paid your fees. What are they checking that takes so long? Is there not a database that they can instantly check to see if you have a class A misdemeanor or whatever would keep you from getting a LTC? When a LEO stops you for a traffic violation how long does it take him to make sure you are not a felon on the run? We all give DPS a pass because there are soooo many applications but what exactly takes so long in the average case? And why should a renewal take 60 days?

[Soccerdad1995]

I think they need to bring back civics and can social studies. Texas state agencies can't F*rt without the legislature telling them which cheek to raise. When a person calls in and complains to a lawmaker or the executive branch they are complaining to them about them. DPS just keeps building a mansion with nothing but a hammer.

A perfect storm of anti 2A rhetoric on a national level coupled with terrorist events everybody slammed DPS with LTC apps before during and after the 2015 Holiday season. DPS is running in a budget set a couple years prior to that.

When I first joined this board apps where running 60-75 business days. Based on some that have posted their timelines its Down around 44-48 business days. Some quicker some longer. Some ahead some behind others- again when you look at what must be checked it's obvious all in all out on the same day is not going to happen.

I actually wish Texas was constitutional carry with the same right to carry anywhere a Texas Peace officer can. I also want world peace, probably not going to get either wish.

DPS is getting them out quicker, be patient, it will come b

What do they have to check? You submit your fingerprints and I assume the FBI or whatever (CIA??) reviews them and you are either OK or not. You can purchase a gun with a single "instant" background check in 10 minutes. They have a copy of your CHL certificate. You have paid your fees. What are they checking that takes so long? Is there not a database that they can instantly check to see if you have a class A misdemeanor or whatever would keep you from getting a LTC? When a LEO stops you for a traffic violation how long does it take him to make sure you are not a felon on the run? We all give DPS a pass because there are soooo many applications but what exactly takes so long in the average case? And why should a renewal take 60 days?

If they are checking against automated databases, then in a perfect world, this could all be automated to the point that humans don't even get involved unless there is a problem that requires some judgment to be applied. Otherwise, the applicant would just apply online, fingerprints would get populated to a database, and the instructor could also certify online that the applicant passed.

The only delay in most cases would be for mailing the plastic. Maybe give me an e-card that I can pull up on my phone in the mean time, and I could have my LTC the same day I complete the class.

Notice that I said "in a perfect world".