Shoe on the other foot

[ScottDLS]

There must be a way to work the Federal GFZSA into this discussion...Maybe TAM can figure it out...

[casp625]

I'm just waiting for my moment. Every now and then the GF wants to head into Target and I figure why should we have to end our conversation? We can just continue it in the women's bathroom... all while OC, of course.

[The Marshal]

I'm just waiting for my moment. Every now and then the GF wants to head into Target and I figure why should we have to end our conversation? We can just continue it in the women's bathroom... all while OC, of course.

[LosAlce]

As a woman (and I really hate that I have to preface that but my guess is the overwhelming majority of the members on the forum are men), nothing makes me stop listening faster than "we have to protect our daughters and wives!"

If you want to protect them, teach them to protect themselves. Pepper spray, taser, something, just PLEASE stop using us as an excuse. It really does just drive me bonkers. No one is in no more danger than they were before. PLUS, what about your sons? I seem to remember that much more inappropriate activities go on in there.

I refuse to be used as plot point, just like I refuse to be a victim (hence why I carry).

And for those who have proclaimed that they will stand guard by women's restrooms, that is incredibly problematic. How am I to know you are a "good guy" if you are hanging out in a place normal people don't hang out around. It's super creepy and may actually cause MORE problems.

The irony of these issues is just so thick and almost overwhelming.

Part of my rant can be blamed on painkillers from my recent back injury. I've already warned my husband that if I see a man "standing guard" by the restroom I intend to use, it is not going to be pretty. If you insist on doing it, please do it from a reasonable distance.

You are way overreacting here. It's great you are so well equipped to repel whatever challenge a man may present. I can assure you not all women or little girls are up to the challenge.

Whether you like it or not, it is part of a man's responsibility to look out for the welfare and safety of their family members, including their wives, daughters and sons. Another fact I'm sure you can't stand is that men and women aren't created equally when it comes to strength and physical abilities. There are exceptions to everything but on the whole, that is just the way we are created in general.

You and your hubby deal with things the way you see best and the rest of us will do the same.

My problem is not wanting to protect ones family, my problem are the men (mostly men I'm assuming here) who think that it is only the mans reaponsibility (or ability) to protect their family. I have no beef with anyone wanting to feel safe, especially the person who commented about his young daughter and being a single parent. If he were in the bathroom and I walked in, I'd greet him, probably make a joke about "guess your daughter is taking a while, huh?" then go about my business. I know men and women are not created equal but still, that is not justification to use women and children as a pawn in a chess game of morality.

That weak statement (because I refuse to call it an argument) infuriates me all the same as when the anti-gunners use it to justify trying to limit our 2A rights. That's all I'm saying.

Again, feel how you want about it. That's your prerogative. But the "protecting women and children" as a blanket statment and pretentious moral superiority is where my anger is, not with those of you who want to ensure the safety of your family members.

[mojo84]

As a woman (and I really hate that I have to preface that but my guess is the overwhelming majority of the members on the forum are men), nothing makes me stop listening faster than "we have to protect our daughters and wives!"

If you want to protect them, teach them to protect themselves. Pepper spray, taser, something, just PLEASE stop using us as an excuse. It really does just drive me bonkers. No one is in no more danger than they were before. PLUS, what about your sons? I seem to remember that much more inappropriate activities go on in there.

I refuse to be used as plot point, just like I refuse to be a victim (hence why I carry).

And for those who have proclaimed that they will stand guard by women's restrooms, that is incredibly problematic. How am I to know you are a "good guy" if you are hanging out in a place normal people don't hang out around. It's super creepy and may actually cause MORE problems.

The irony of these issues is just so thick and almost overwhelming.

Part of my rant can be blamed on painkillers from my recent back injury. I've already warned my husband that if I see a man "standing guard" by the restroom I intend to use, it is not going to be pretty. If you insist on doing it, please do it from a reasonable distance.

You are way overreacting here. It's great you are so well equipped to repel whatever challenge a man may present. I can assure you not all women or little girls are up to the challenge.

Whether you like it or not, it is part of a man's responsibility to look out for the welfare and safety of their family members, including their wives, daughters and sons. Another fact I'm sure you can't stand is that men and women aren't created equally when it comes to strength and physical abilities. There are exceptions to everything but on the whole, that is just the way we are created in general.

You and your hubby deal with things the way you see best and the rest of us will do the same.

My problem is not wanting to protect ones family, my problem are the men (mostly men I'm assuming here) who think that it is only the mans reaponsibility (or ability) to protect their family. I have no beef with anyone wanting to feel safe, especially the person who commented about his young daughter and being a single parent. If he were in the bathroom and I walked in, I'd greet him, probably make a joke about "guess your daughter is taking a while, huh?" then go about my business. I know men and women are not created equal but still, that is not justification to use women and children as a pawn in a chess game of morality.

That weak statement (because I refuse to call it an argument) infuriates me all the same as when the anti-gunners use it to justify trying to limit our 2A rights. That's all I'm saying.

Again, feel how you want about it. That's your prerogative. But the "protecting women and children" as a blanket statment and pretentious moral superiority is where my anger is, not with those of you who want to ensure the safety of your family members.

I don't get where you are coming up with all the "pretentious moral superiority" you claim to be seeing. It comes across as the pot calling the kettle black.

If you want to use the restroom with dudes in drag then I'm sure that can be arranged. However, as a general rule for the public, it's not appropriate for many reasons and safety of the women and children that use public lady's rooms is one reason.

[Soccerdad1995]

As a woman (and I really hate that I have to preface that but my guess is the overwhelming majority of the members on the forum are men), nothing makes me stop listening faster than "we have to protect our daughters and wives!"

If you want to protect them, teach them to protect themselves. Pepper spray, taser, something, just PLEASE stop using us as an excuse. It really does just drive me bonkers. No one is in no more danger than they were before. PLUS, what about your sons? I seem to remember that much more inappropriate activities go on in there.

I refuse to be used as plot point, just like I refuse to be a victim (hence why I carry).

And for those who have proclaimed that they will stand guard by women's restrooms, that is incredibly problematic. How am I to know you are a "good guy" if you are hanging out in a place normal people don't hang out around. It's super creepy and may actually cause MORE problems.

The irony of these issues is just so thick and almost overwhelming.

Part of my rant can be blamed on painkillers from my recent back injury. I've already warned my husband that if I see a man "standing guard" by the restroom I intend to use, it is not going to be pretty. If you insist on doing it, please do it from a reasonable distance.

I'm confused on your stance. If you have a problem with men hanging out by the women's restroom, then I'm assuming that you also have a problem with men being in the women's restroom.

But something in the tone of your post makes me think that you are in favor of Target's unisex restroom policy. Maybe I am just reading too much into what you have posted?

[LosAlce]

I'm confused on your stance. If you have a problem with men hanging out by the women's restroom, then I'm assuming that you also have a problem with men being in the women's restroom.

But something in the tone of your post makes me think that you are in favor of Target's unisex restroom policy. Maybe I am just reading too much into what you have posted?

Hanging out by the restroom would creep me out. In other posts that have been made on the forum about this same issue, the impression i've got is that guys are just going to patrol the entrance. I've seen plenty of fathers stand inside the women's restroom helping their daughters and never have I taken issue with it and I never will because sometimes, that is just what needs to happen at that time. I know that sounds confusing, but i find it pretty easy to tell when someone is somewhere they aren't supposed to be. People watching is an amusing sport.

My tone is more about blanket statements about how all members of certain groups of people need protecting. I don't tolerate it when anti-gunners use it to justify 2A restrictions, I don't tolerate it when some stranger thinks that I need my hand held. Like I said in a earlier comment, no one knows the limitations of you're family's ability to protect themselves better than you do. I just don't like it when strangers think that they are saving me (or other women they probably don't know) from some perceived predators. That is my call to make for myself and my family.

Target's bathroom policy honestly means nothing to me. I can honestly say that it's probably already been going on without people realizing it. Now that the spotlight has been put on this, people act as if the sky is falling. If target went back and said "nevermind, this was a huge mistake, we're sorry" I wouldn't even care.

[LTUME1978]

LocAlce,

As a single father of 3 daughters and grandfather of one very precious (and young) grand daughter, I don't want these "whatever they are" (or perverts that are using this bathroom thing as an excuse) to go into the women's restroom with any of my family. I won't go in the Ladies room and won't go to Target now either. You are free to believe in whatever you so desire. Some of us follow a belief system that dictates that it is the man's (Father's) responsibility to protect his family. I intend to do that to the best of my ability.

I (as I am sure many others are as well) am feed up with all of this radical behavior that a small minority in this country is trying to push on the rest of us as what should now be accepted as normal. It is not normal and all through history, has never been accepted as normal. I think it is time to start pushing back very hard against the radical liberal left that is trying to force all of this abnormal behavior on us.

[ScottDLS]

You will all be made to care about this policy. With the dueling lawsuits between US & North Carolina, the Federal government has now declared that it's position is: That every private business and public facility must have the same policy as Target. Otherwise they are violating US Title VII & Title IX Civil Rights law.

So you won't be able to go to WalMart if you don't like Target's policy, because it is now (and apparently has been since the 1960's) a civil rights violation to prevent an adult male from going into the same bathroom as little girls.

Probably we've all just been missing the males in the girls locker room all along, until NC in their blind transphobia made it an issue. Now that the brave US Dept of Justice has broken down the barriers for perverts to hang out in the bathroom of their choice, they need to move on to the stupid bigotry in the unenlightened states against polygamy, adult/child sexual activity, and bestiality.

Oh you think that's a stretch...? Tell me two years ago you thought that the US government would be forcing you to accept adult men in the little girls room. I mean you really should all know its in the Constitution... right next to the abortion amendment and the sodomy clause!

The struggle for LGBTQIA (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual, queer, intersex, and asexual...for all you ignorant cave people) will likely take the force of the federal government. We can all look forward to the day when federal troops will be escorting "trans" Texans to the little girls room, against the opposition of bigoted State officials like AG Patrick.

[mojo84]

For some reason, I just can't get this song out of my head.

[Soccerdad1995]

I'm just waiting for the big health club chains to announce their new unisex showers and locker rooms. That may get a bigger reaction than the bathroom thing, but who knows?

Interesting note - I have been to Amsterdam, which is probably one of the most open and liberal places in the world when it comes to things like nudity and sexuality. And yes there are "normal"* spas in Amsterdam that have unisex showers and changing rooms, along with unisex steam rooms, etc. But even there, such places are in the minority and most of the spas have single sex changing rooms and any areas that are open to both sexes prohibit nudity.

It's interesting that we are well on the path toward government mandated behavior that even the Europeans consider to be too extreme.

* By normal, I mean that normal people will go there to relax after a day at work. I am not talking about sex clubs or the like.

[mayor]

For some reason, I just can't get this song out of my head.

The struggle for LGBTQIA (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transsexual, queer, intersex, and asexual...for all you ignorant cave people)...

Wow, only 19 letters to go. the antithesis of this symbol:

[LosAlce]

LocAlce,

As a single father of 3 daughters and grandfather of one very precious (and young) grand daughter, I don't want these "whatever they are" (or perverts that are using this bathroom thing as an excuse) to go into the women's restroom with any of my family. I won't go in the Ladies room and won't go to Target now either. You are free to believe in whatever you so desire. Some of us follow a belief system that dictates that it is the man's (Father's) responsibility to protect his family. I intend to do that to the best of my ability.

I (as I am sure many others are as well) am feed up with all of this radical behavior that a small minority in this country is trying to push on the rest of us as what should now be accepted as normal. It is not normal and all through history, has never been accepted as normal. I think it is time to start pushing back very hard against the radical liberal left that is trying to force all of this abnormal behavior on us.

More power to you, sir I haven't been trying to stand in the way of anyone's beliefs, merely following the title of this particular thread with the "shoe on the other foot". Two wrongs don't make a right (in this case, weak statements and name calling to elicit an emotional response from both sides).

I will apologize to all that I may have upset. I don't have a dog in this bathroom fight. Hopefully at no point did I come across as trying to tell you that you are wrong for believing what you believe. I merely wanted to point out how extremely similar arguments have made it from one side to the other (in respect to different topics) and how ironic that is. Also, how actions with good intentions can actually make matters worse. It's not a secret that Target has taken a significant hit from this. I agree that small vocal minorities seem to be deciding things for the majority (not just in this, but for other controversial topics as well) that may not be what is best for everyone. Speak your mind, not just with you words but with your money as well. Its all part of the process. Radical behavior from both sides is pulling us apart. I make it my policy to look both ways, just to make sure the side I thought was my friend is not infact going to stab me in the back.

My devil's advocate approach may have been harsh, I understand, but we should consider all sides. This got way preachier than I wanted and intended so how about agree to disagree? There are plenty of other subjects that deserve better and more indepth discussions than restrooms, eh?

[mojo84]

Based on your last comment where you addressed the title of this thread and the reference to the comment "if it protects just one...", its obvious you missed the point entirely. It was used as sarcasm, hence, the shoe on the other foot is in regard to turning that comment around on the people that are against guns but are for men using the ladies' rooms. It's a different issue but still very similar. It wasn't an attempt to make two wrongs right.

It also really had nothing to do about women being inferior or an attempt to be pretentiously morally superior. I believe you are the one that took it all down that road. However, your continued rant does nothing to support your so called apology.

There is a reason women and men have historically been assigned different restrooms and it wasn't just due to modesty. There is also a reason more women are raped and molested by men than men by women. Those are facts of life regardless how tough and prepared some women think they are.

By the way, you are the one that made this about much more than just restrooms, eh?

[JustSomeOldGuy]

There must be a way to work the Federal GFZSA into this discussion...Maybe TAM can figure it out...

um, Castaneda Elementary School - 4100 N 34th St, Mcallen, TX, is across the street from a Target. (look at street view, google maps)