Disarmed by uninformed officer

[The Annoyed Man]

Does your wife have an LTC? If not, the deputy violated the law by giving a gun to an unlicensed person. I would report the ignorant --- in any event.

MPA......as long as she immediately concealed it.

[16Adams]

I apologize if asked/answered. Was this a "real" deputy or a "weekend reserve" deputy. Like a sheriffs posse member.

[Smokey613]

I apologize if asked/answered. Was this a "real" deputy or a "weekend reserve" deputy. Like a sheriffs posse member.

In Texas, only full-time employed Peace Officers can legally work "extra jobs". This was changed through legislation brought on by the private security lobbyist years ago. ( There are some exceptions to this but it requires a lot of "hoops" to be jumped )

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/psb/co ... fficer.htm

[canvasbck]

Yikes... What a story. I'm new to TX, but not new to carrying.

I did not see this in the OP, but once he "disarmed" you, did he clear and rendered your weapon safe, prior to handing it off to a 3rd (unknown to him) party? I presume (not mentioned in the OP) he did not check to determine your wife's LTC status, outstanding warrants or her past criminal history prior to arming her ? Based on your apprehension of him delivering an unholstered weapon to her, I'd tend to think he did not.

I would want to report to his department, if for no other reason then he could use some serious retraining (IMO). 1 is on the law (below) itself (as has been noted), and 2 is just disregard for his own safety.

1) Leaving the methods he took aside..... If he is moonlighting as a security guard in another county other then his primary jurisdiction, Is he really acting in the "lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties". Also, was it "reasonable" for him to think that it was necessary to disarm you for everyone protection under those circumstances? The law seems pretty specific to me. Look at it this way, if some plain clothed person approaches you, flashes some tin and says "he's the law" and want's to disarm you for his/our own safety (assuming you are legally carrying)? Would you just comply? That's hyperbole of course, but still... the point remains?

2) This is just a basic safety thing to me. Why the heck would he just hand YOUR weapon to an unknown (I presume he does not know your wife) 3rd person. For all he knows, he just armed a convicted felon? Or some other person that should not, or could not be in possession of a weapon? If he did not hand it to you directly, then place it on the passenger seat where YOU can take possession of it. That's what the statue directs (see below). Seems pretty reckless to introduce a third party (that he doesn't know) into the situation that involves a potential deadly weapon??? Sounds like a recipe for disaster to me (for him). It's also a violation for him to do so.

Did he ever even check your LTC status?

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace
officer shall return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license holder.
(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer’s official duties may temporarily disarm a license holder when a license holder enters a non-public, secure portion of a law enforcement facility, {snip.....}

He never cleared the weapon. That was why I requested him to put it in my holster before handing it off to my wife.

He never asked me or my wife for any ID. He never even inquired if either of us had LTC

[Jusme]

I have been waiting to chime in on this thread. I applaud the OP for his handling of a situation where the LEO was definitely in the wrong, and this situation could have gone south quickly. The LEO'S actions should be reported not only to the Sheriff but the owner of the liquor store that employed him of duty.

I look at the big picture and if he did this to the OP, he may do the same to someone else and the situation could have very different and potentially tragic outcome. Additionally the media would have a field day and their record of getting the facts straight is dismal. All of which will give the anti-gun crowd more ammo to use against us and further try to restrict the rights of law abiding LTC holders. Please keep us updated on the outcome.

[Scott in Houston]

I read through most of this thread, but may have missed something so sorry if it's been addressed.

There must be a security camera with video of this.

I'd request the video.

[The Annoyed Man]

I read through most of this thread, but may have missed something so sorry if it's been addressed.

There must be a security camera with video of this.

I'd request the video.

[rentz]

Thankfully everyone came out of this unharmed and you had a level head.

I've been told this exact thing by Leo's before, except this officer told me no one even an off duty officer can carry into a liquor store because of the tabc sign. This was just a friendly bull conversation with an officer one day and my new to ltc buddy started asking him carry related questions. So I was very casual and asked if he was sure because my understanding was this was unlawful / unlicensed carry not licensed or legal carry and he very sternly said I was wrong and would be arrested if I carried into a liquor store which at that point I just played along and said ah ok thanks for the info.

I understand that not every officer can know every single code and letter of every possible law but something like ltc you would assume the departments make their officers fully conversant of the laws and regulations

[Abraham]

What would be the repercussions for all for such an arrest?

Someone mentioned earlier about ignorance of the law applying to civilians, so what about such regarding wrongful arrests by LEO's?

[WildBill]

What would be the repercussions for all for such an arrest?

Someone mentioned earlier about ignorance of the law applying to civilians, so what about such regarding wrongful arrests by LEO's?

Probably the DA would decide not to prosecute.
The OP would be let out of jail and every one would go home.
It is very rare for anything to happen to an LEO for making an arrest like this.

[warnmar10]

I wasn't planning on a formal complaint. I'm the Brazoria County LEPC chairman and as such have the means to communicate directly with Sheriff Wagner.

My suggestion: pay a pop-in to Sheriff Wagner, as a courtesy. Let him know you're business in the building today is to lodge a formal complaint about the behavior one of his deputies. After that conversation and based on his reaction you can file the complaint or not.
I believe Mavs00 summed it up the best:

1. once he "disarmed" you, did he clear and rendered your weapon safe, prior to handing it off to a 3rd (unknown to him) party?

• did not check outstanding warrants or her past criminal history prior to arming her?

• disregard for his own safety

• Did he ever even check your LTC status?

Without further training the man remains a menace, a danger to himself and others. I believe that should should be formally addressed.

[C-dub]

Yes. I read your entire post. I only responded to your statement pertaining to carrying in a liquor store and the 51% rule which is misleading. Someone may read your post and think they aren't legally allowed to do that if they are licensed which is not true. 51% signs have nothing to do with liquor stores. Adding the information from TABC website explains that a 51% sign has nothing to do with a liquor store and only applies to on premises consumption establishments hopefully may educate someone about when and where they are allowed to carry in establishments that sell and/or serve alcohol. Someone who may read your statement and think they can't carry into a liquor store with an LTC. When you or any one states

it is illegal to bring a firearm into a liquor store under the 51%provision

I will point out that it's incorrect, nothing personal. I wish you all the best

The issue, however, is that JP171 qualified it. It seems that some are not reading what preceded the part quoted above.

as the officer understood the law(no matter how wrong) it is illegal to bring a firearm into a liquor store under the 51% provision

I colored the qualifier in blue. The officer incorrectly understood it to be illegal to carry into this store under the 51% law.

[Mavs00]

He never cleared the weapon. That was why I requested him to put it in my holster before handing it off to my wife.

He never asked me or my wife for any ID. He never even inquired if either of us had LTC

Oh my.... To me then... It would be irresponsible of you to NOT report his actions to his employer (law enforcement employer, not just the liquor store). Be it formally, or more low key through the other channels you have available to you. Cops have been killed for doing much less stupid things. This guy needs some personal safety re-training. For his own, and the general publics, safety.

Whether he had the authority to do so or not (I even question whether he did in the capacity that he was acting at the time), in essence, he took your loaded firearm and gave it you someone who was not involved in the initial incident and who he had no way of verifying would not present a clear and lethal danger to himself, herself or others by doing so. All without even verifying anyone's legitimate credentials or carry or have on their possession a loaded firearm. I'd be interested in hearing from any other active LEO's... Does this sound like a good idea to any one you?

Like others. I applaud you for having the level-headed presence, since you knew him to be an LEO, to just go along which quickly de-escalate this situation so no one got hurt. I sounds like it could have ended up being MUCH worse for all involved.

[Abraham]

WildBill,

Thanks!

[puma guy]

Yes. I read your entire post. I only responded to your statement pertaining to carrying in a liquor store and the 51% rule which is misleading. Someone may read your post and think they aren't legally allowed to do that if they are licensed which is not true. 51% signs have nothing to do with liquor stores. Adding the information from TABC website explains that a 51% sign has nothing to do with a liquor store and only applies to on premises consumption establishments hopefully may educate someone about when and where they are allowed to carry in establishments that sell and/or serve alcohol. Someone who may read your statement and think they can't carry into a liquor store with an LTC. When you or any one states

it is illegal to bring a firearm into a liquor store under the 51%provision

I will point out that it's incorrect, nothing personal. I wish you all the best

The issue, however, is that JP171 qualified it. It seems that some are not reading what preceded the part quoted above.

as the officer understood the law(no matter how wrong) it is illegal to bring a firearm into a liquor store under the 51% provision

I colored the qualifier in blue. The officer incorrectly understood it to be illegal to carry into this store under the 51% law.

That wasn't the way I had interpreted it. You're right C-dub; my apologies to JP171 (PM'd). I went back to the OP and read the exchange he posted between him and the officer.