SXSW Weapons Free policy 2016

[ShepherdTX]

Well, looks like the antis are out in force downtown today going door to door with signs in hand.

[NotRPB]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

Yeah, private businesses can impose all kinds of crazy restrictions if you have to buy a ticket to enter. Check out the prohibited items section on the House of Blues Dallas website. They have some really weird stuff in there. Last time I went, they made me empty my pockets and then patted me down. I was not amused.

Businesses on Privately owned property can
Who owns the property is a determining factor, City of Dallas owns the property where the Texas State Fair is, and State Fair is run by a "private company" on public city property and cannot ban guns on the city owned property. As Charles stated once the person/business leasing the property would not have more rights than the one who owns it and leased it to them had... IOW, you can't lease to someone something which you do not have.

[rotor]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

Yeah, private businesses can impose all kinds of crazy restrictions if you have to buy a ticket to enter. Check out the prohibited items section on the House of Blues Dallas website. They have some really weird stuff in there. Last time I went, they made me empty my pockets and then patted me down. I was not amused.

I think there is a difference here, but I may be wrong. Posting a "gun-buster" warning on a website is officially not notice. The House of Blues website is quite detailed but they do say you may be wanded or patted down on admission. At that point if they don't have 30.06 or 30.07 signs and you are carrying you can be given verbal notification and you have to leave or else. I would imagine that the unwrapped tampon limit would also make them give you notice that you have to leave. I have never seen such restrictions as posted at House of Blues but I guess they can legally keep you out for violating those restrictions but I don't think they can do more to you than keep you from entering if you do violate. Now if you refuse to leave they can probably have you arrested.

[nimravus01]

In related news, the POTUS visited Torchy's Tacos in Austin. http://kxan.com/2016/03/11/president-ob ... ustin_News
I'm curious what the impact to a minding-his-own-business LTC holder in Texas is on such an ocasion? Does the SS come inside and frisk everyone before hand? Is the law abiding person forced to leave, or worse yet, made to surrender his weapon?

[ScottDLS]

I don't understand.

Why does anyone care what their "policy" is???

I want to know if they understand 30.06 and 30.07. They have a way to accomplish keeping someone out and it's not by publishing their "policy".

Give an official 30.06 or 30.07 notification.

Tex

They can "cancel" your ticket/wristband to the show - that's a civil contract between you and them. That's what they're alluding to.

Ahhhhh! Very good answer! This is precisely the analysis we were discussing in the "can a hotel keep you out by policy" debate in another thread.

Yes, if by purchasing a ticket you are agreeing contractually as a matter of law to conditions encumbering that purchase them that condition may be stated using any non .06 or .07 language.

Is that what that are doing?

tex

So what? Then they can take me to civil court and sue me for violating the terms of my ticket...if they find me carrying. Then they can prove the damages caused by my carrying concealed....etc., etc. Unless they're going to have private security roving around public property in Austin frisking people and cutting off their wristbands it's really kind of a silly policy. Then again I could be the one that "takes the ride" for ripping the tag off my mattress in 1982...



I can't be prosecuted for a crime for carrying on public property or on private property (unless they provide the statutory notice).

[Scott Farkus]

In related news, the POTUS visited Torchy's Tacos in Austin. http://kxan.com/2016/03/11/president-ob ... ustin_News
I'm curious what the impact to a minding-his-own-business LTC holder in Texas is on such an ocasion? Does the SS come inside and frisk everyone before hand? Is the law abiding person forced to leave, or worse yet, made to surrender his weapon?

I've wondered the same thing myself. It's hard to imagine the SS would frisk everybody, but who knows? And not for nothing, but by what authority does he get to usurp state law by forcing licensed carriers to disarm where carry is legal? Is there some kind of "no firearm" halo that follows the president around wherever he goes?

He popped into Franklin BBQ when he was here a couple of years ago and caused a bit of a stink because he was allowed to jump to the front of the legendary 5 hour line.

Personally, I don't think I could stand to be in the same room with him so I'd likely just leave as soon as I realized what was going on, if possible.

[DevilDawg]

I am not certain but remember reading or hearing about pre-clearance prior to the arrival of a location. USSS will come in and clear anyone not known to be uber safe. Most likely the eatery is given a 20-30 minutes out warning to clear all patrons except those deemed "safe" and/or "photo-op worthy". You can rest assured no one with a firearm was allowed to be in the building during the visit. This would be the same for any President, not just the current.

[nimravus01]

I've wondered the same thing myself. It's hard to imagine the SS would frisk everybody, but who knows? And not for nothing, but by what authority does he get to usurp state law by forcing licensed carriers to disarm where carry is legal? Is there some kind of "no firearm" halo that follows the president around wherever he goes?

I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm not sure what law pertains to this, but, I guess if you're somewhere enjoying a meal and the POTUS wants to be there, well, I guess he gets dibbs. I know that goes for whoever holds the office. Kinda seems un-American imo. As for people being deemed "safe", I guess us law abiding, background check passing, card carrying, commoners just aren't good enough.

[ScottDLS]

Yeah they really shoulda' frisked Hinkley in '81, and avoided Reagan and Brady getting a bullet. Never mind that it's already against the law to CC in DC and to shoot people...

[jmorris]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

It's not a preconceived notice, it's in the terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase your tickets. Just like you agree that "By attending and/or participating in the Events, each Participant hereby grants SXSW permission to use the Participant’s photograph, image, likeness, voice and statements for any purpose, including but not limited to commercial purposes, without compensation or credit to the Participant, in any and all media now known or hereafter devised." you agree that "SXSW is a private event and has a weapons-free policy. Attending Participants are prohibited from carrying weapons of any kind, including concealed or displayed firearms. Participants are not permitted to bring weapons onto the premises of any official SXSW events. SXSW reserves the right, in its sole discretion, without refund, to deactivate and/or revoke the Credentials of Participants who violate this weapons-free policy. Participant agrees that this policy is in force, and agrees to comply with the policy, regardless of whether signs prohibiting weapons are posted at the premises of any official SXSW event."

[jmorris]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

Yeah, private businesses can impose all kinds of crazy restrictions if you have to buy a ticket to enter. Check out the prohibited items section on the House of Blues Dallas website. They have some really weird stuff in there. Last time I went, they made me empty my pockets and then patted me down. I was not amused.

Businesses on Privately owned property can
Who owns the property is a determining factor, City of Dallas owns the property where the Texas State Fair is, and State Fair is run by a "private company" on public city property and cannot ban guns on the city owned property. As Charles stated once the person/business leasing the property would not have more rights than the one who owns it and leased it to them had... IOW, you can't lease to someone something which you do not have.

SXSW would have no grounds to have charges brought against anyone for carrying in a public space (or one not 06/07/51% posted) but for violating their terms and conditions but they can certainly revoke an individuals credentials.

[rotor]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

It's not a preconceived notice, it's in the terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase your tickets. Just like you agree that "By attending and/or participating in the Events, each Participant hereby grants SXSW permission to use the Participant’s photograph, image, likeness, voice and statements for any purpose, including but not limited to commercial purposes, without compensation or credit to the Participant, in any and all media now known or hereafter devised." you agree that "SXSW is a private event and has a weapons-free policy. Attending Participants are prohibited from carrying weapons of any kind, including concealed or displayed firearms. Participants are not permitted to bring weapons onto the premises of any official SXSW events. SXSW reserves the right, in its sole discretion, without refund, to deactivate and/or revoke the Credentials of Participants who violate this weapons-free policy. Participant agrees that this policy is in force, and agrees to comply with the policy, regardless of whether signs prohibiting weapons are posted at the premises of any official SXSW event."

jmorris, I went to the home site, http://www.sxsw.com/ and without providing my personal info or credit card I went into the process of buying a ticket. This took me to the shopping cart where I could spend a lot of money on a ticket and at the bottom of the shopping cart there was a terms of use site to go to. Nowhere in this did it say anything about being a weapon free zone. I did not complete the purchase as... who cares. My point is that I did not see anything before they took my money and provided me a ticket that contracted me to being weapon free. I did not complete the process so perhaps further down the line it may have showed up but to the casual user of the site, especially if you go from main site to cart there was no warning given. So where is the contract? Not obvious to me. I even typed in the following into their search at the main site, "weapons", "weapons-free", "guns" and it did not bring up their policy. To be honest, I don't know how the OP found the page he did. It was not obvious to me from their main page.

[jmorris]

That is exactly it. By purchasing a ticket you are agreeing not to carry at any SXSW event. If you haven't and only attend the free events where purchase of a ticket is not required then you haven't agreed to anything and are free to carry. IMHO, IANAL, etc.

Is there some preconceived notice that says that purchasing a ticket binds you to not carry? I think they should ban alcohol and drunk drivers (or more likely other drugs since it's Austin) from mowing down people in the streets of Austin. No ticket purchase necessary.

It's not a preconceived notice, it's in the terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase your tickets. Just like you agree that "By attending and/or participating in the Events, each Participant hereby grants SXSW permission to use the Participant’s photograph, image, likeness, voice and statements for any purpose, including but not limited to commercial purposes, without compensation or credit to the Participant, in any and all media now known or hereafter devised." you agree that "SXSW is a private event and has a weapons-free policy. Attending Participants are prohibited from carrying weapons of any kind, including concealed or displayed firearms. Participants are not permitted to bring weapons onto the premises of any official SXSW events. SXSW reserves the right, in its sole discretion, without refund, to deactivate and/or revoke the Credentials of Participants who violate this weapons-free policy. Participant agrees that this policy is in force, and agrees to comply with the policy, regardless of whether signs prohibiting weapons are posted at the premises of any official SXSW event."

jmorris, I went to the home site, http://www.sxsw.com/ and without providing my personal info or credit card I went into the process of buying a ticket. This took me to the shopping cart where I could spend a lot of money on a ticket and at the bottom of the shopping cart there was a terms of use site to go to. Nowhere in this did it say anything about being a weapon free zone. I did not complete the purchase as... who cares. My point is that I did not see anything before they took my money and provided me a ticket that contracted me to being weapon free. I did not complete the process so perhaps further down the line it may have showed up but to the casual user of the site, especially if you go from main site to cart there was no warning given. So where is the contract? Not obvious to me. I even typed in the following into their search at the main site, "weapons", "weapons-free", "guns" and it did not bring up their policy. To be honest, I don't know how the OP found the page he did. It was not obvious to me from their main page.

I guess it depends where you go first. My first inclination was to click on the Attend tab and Terms and Conditions was right there. I never went to the purchase page but I will agree it needs to be there.

[thatguyoverthere]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... -in-texas/

But while gun-rights advocates might want to bring their firearms near the president, the Secret Service has invoked its authority under federal law to prevent that from happening. Hoback said in an email that Sections 3056 and 1752 of Title 18 in the U.S. Code give the agency the right to prevent "firearms from entering sites visited by” officials they are protecting, “including those located in open-carry states.”

“Only authorized law enforcement personnel working in conjunction with the Secret Service for a particular event may carry a firearm inside of the protected site,” Hoback said. “Individuals determined to be carrying firearms will not be allowed past a predetermined outer perimeter checkpoint, regardless of whether they possess a ticket to the event.”

I haven't looked up the statutes that were referenced by the SS agent in this article, but apparently they believe that federal law trumps the 2A. Anyone surprised?

[ScottDLS]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... -in-texas/

But while gun-rights advocates might want to bring their firearms near the president, the Secret Service has invoked its authority under federal law to prevent that from happening. Hoback said in an email that Sections 3056 and 1752 of Title 18 in the U.S. Code give the agency the right to prevent "firearms from entering sites visited by” officials they are protecting, “including those located in open-carry states.”

“Only authorized law enforcement personnel working in conjunction with the Secret Service for a particular event may carry a firearm inside of the protected site,” Hoback said. “Individuals determined to be carrying firearms will not be allowed past a predetermined outer perimeter checkpoint, regardless of whether they possess a ticket to the event.”

I haven't looked up the statutes that were referenced by the SS agent in this article, but apparently they believe that federal law trumps the 2A. Anyone surprised?

I did and they could conceivably use them to exclude people in advance with wanding or pre-checks, but if they were to catch you CCing or open carrying with a license, the most they could do would be kick you out. You wouldn't have violated any federal statute, just by carrying...or at least not that one.