My Employer WANTS TO ALLOW Carry........

[hazmat]

I did a search first but could not find the answers so here goes.

My employer wants to allow conceal or open carry with the following provisions.
1. Any employee who is licensed to do so, must provide a copy of license to HR.
2. Any visitor who comes within premises, is LTC and is carrying, must show proof of LTC to designated company rep.
3. Employer isn’t sure how to handle allowing an employee who has LTC to carry in any company owned commercial motor vehicles.

In addition, my employer is considering posting a sign that similar to the TABC Notice sign-something like: “The unlicensed possession of a firearm/handgun on these premises in prohibited”. Is this legal, necessary or even needed?

Here’s what I “think” I know about this.
1. As an employer, they can request this and employee must agree or be in violation of a company policy which could result in their termination
2. Although my employer could request this, the Licensee is not obligated by law to do so?
3. I believe DOT CMV refers to state LTC laws, thus, it would be legal for an employee to carry if LTC, but I can’t seem to verify this.

I would greatly appreciate any constructive advice or recommendations on this matter.

Thank you & Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[Unocat]

I can't answer 3 but 1 and 2 are correct. If he is the property owner or in control of the property he can set the terms for guests. They don't have to agree, but then they can be asked to leave. On 1, he should make it part of the employee handbook in the future. In the meantime he can send a memo or email and request each person respond with acceptance/understood.

[baldeagle]

Number 1 is correct. For number 2, I would ask, if I enter your property carrying concealed, how are you going to know to ask me for my LTC? And what is the purpose of knowing that? The same question applies to number 1. Why do they need to see the LTC? I can see it for open carry but for concealed carry it doesn't make much sense. For number 3, I don't believe there are any restrictions on carrying within the state, but I'm not sure about federal DOT regulations if you go out of state. You should probably research that.

[hazmat]

Thank you for your quick response.

Can anyone advise on #3?

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[chandler583]

As for signage regarding unlicensed carry, I believe the 30.05 verbiage would apply there, but someone who is far more knowledgeable will be along to correct me if I'm wrong. #3, I believe as long as the CMV operator is following company policy and will travel to a state of reciprocity, I think all is well.

[hazmat]

Number 1 is correct. For number 2, I would ask, if I enter your property carrying concealed, how are you going to know to ask me for my LTC? And what is the purpose of knowing that? The same question applies to number 1. Why do they need to see the LTC? I can see it for open carry but for concealed carry it doesn't make much sense. For number 3, I don't believe there are any restrictions on carrying within the state, but I'm not sure about federal DOT regulations if you go out of state. You should probably research that.

Thank you. Your points on #2 are exactly what i had presented to. Based on the responses i got from other board members, they realized this.Their real concern seemed to be the possible hysteria open carry may cause so they are trying to get a head of it. I'm not sure it will ever be an issue but you never know. I see their point. It's like this "hey we don't mind that you open or conceal carry but can we just see your LTC" LOL like the Honorable President Reagan said "Trust, But Verify!"


Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[GeekwithaGun]

They could also put this up:

[hazmat]

They could also put this up:

98388b2f6c2f85f42b618877f222ea24.jpg

Thanks for all the responses.

I love that sign!

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[cbunt1]

Federal Motor Carrier Vehicle Safety Standards, part 49 would be the reference for law related to commercial vehicles and drivers.

In years past (some 20 years go), part 49 specifically prohibited firearms or weapons in a CMV. I remember this because I was an OTR driver back in the early/mid '90s, and studied those regulations in detail, so I would know what I could and couldn't get away with around self-protection when I was in such fine places as Kansas City KS, and East St. Louis, IL.

When I ran a hot-shot truck back from 2002-2005 or so, I again picked up part 49 and studied it end-to-end. At that time, I could find no regulations specific to firearms or weapons on CMV's. I can vouch for the fact that I never had any issues at scale houses with a pistol on the truck carried according to the general regulations of whatever state I was in.

To my knowledge, there are no Federal or UCC regulations that would proscribe otherwise legal carry, provided you're not in violation of any other (generic) regulations.

In other words, just because you're in a CMV doesn't create a bar to carry anymore.

Now, I've been in some plants and facilities that could present an issue--but it'd only be typical private property issues.

As a hotshot owner/operator, I had more problems over having a Labrador on the truck than a Colt.

I'm not a lawyer...just a guy who's been there and done that.

[hazmat]

Federal Motor Carrier Vehicle Safety Standards, part 49 would be the reference for law related to commercial vehicles and drivers.

In years past (some 20 years go), part 49 specifically prohibited firearms or weapons in a CMV. I remember this because I was an OTR driver back in the early/mid '90s, and studied those regulations in detail, so I would know what I could and couldn't get away with around self-protection when I was in such fine places as Kansas City KS, and East St. Louis, IL.

When I ran a hot-shot truck back from 2002-2005 or so, I again picked up part 49 and studied it end-to-end. At that time, I could find no regulations specific to firearms or weapons on CMV's. I can vouch for the fact that I never had any issues at scale houses with a pistol on the truck carried according to the general regulations of whatever state I was in.

To my knowledge, there are no Federal or UCC regulations that would proscribe otherwise legal carry, provided you're not in violation of any other (generic) regulations.

In other words, just because you're in a CMV doesn't create a bar to carry anymore.

Now, I've been in some plants and facilities that could present an issue--but it'd only be typical private property issues.

As a hotshot owner/operator, I had more problems over having a Labrador on the truck than a Colt.

I'm not a lawyer...just a guy who's been there and done that.

Thank you. This mirrors what i've come up with so far.

Yes, we have many customers in the chemical, petro-chemical and refining business. Our employee handbook would address this, something to the effect "although an employee who is LTC may do so in company owned vehicles, it is the employees responsibility to not violate a customers policies in regards to weapons on their property. It will be the employees responsibility to secure his or her weapon in a maner that onlyhe or she has access to it, prior to traveling to a customer facility".....something like that.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[baldeagle]

Yes, we have many customers in the chemical, petro-chemical and refining business. Our employee handbook would address this, something to the effect "although an employee who is LTC may do so in company owned vehicles, it is the employees responsibility to not violate a customers policies in regards to weapons on their property. It will be the employees responsibility to secure his or her weapon in a maner that onlyhe or she has access to it, prior to traveling to a customer facility".....something like that.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

You need to be aware that the chemical (and I believe petro-chemical as well) businesses are exempt from the parking lot laws, so you couldn't even lock a gun in a safe in the company vehicle when visiting them. I would spend some time reading the laws and make absolutely sure that you will be acting lawfully while conducting your business.

[C-dub]

Yes, we have many customers in the chemical, petro-chemical and refining business. Our employee handbook would address this, something to the effect "although an employee who is LTC may do so in company owned vehicles, it is the employees responsibility to not violate a customers policies in regards to weapons on their property. It will be the employees responsibility to secure his or her weapon in a maner that onlyhe or she has access to it, prior to traveling to a customer facility".....something like that.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

You need to be aware that the chemical (and I believe petro-chemical as well) businesses are exempt from the parking lot laws, so you couldn't even lock a gun in a safe in the company vehicle when visiting them. I would spend some time reading the laws and make absolutely sure that you will be acting lawfully while conducting your business.

Although they are exempt from the law that would require them to not prohibit employees from keeping a firearm in their vehicle that doesn't keep them from allowing it if they choose to do so, does it?

[hazmat]

Yes, we have many customers in the chemical, petro-chemical and refining business. Our employee handbook would address this, something to the effect "although an employee who is LTC may do so in company owned vehicles, it is the employees responsibility to not violate a customers policies in regards to weapons on their property. It will be the employees responsibility to secure his or her weapon in a maner that onlyhe or she has access to it, prior to traveling to a customer facility".....something like that.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

You need to be aware that the chemical (and I believe petro-chemical as well) businesses are exempt from the parking lot laws, so you couldn't even lock a gun in a safe in the company vehicle when visiting them. I would spend some time reading the laws and make absolutely sure that you will be acting lawfully while conducting your business.

Thank you. Yes Sir, i'm very aware of this. Exactly why we are wanting to formally address this.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

[cbunt1]

Thank you. This mirrors what i've come up with so far.

Yes, we have many customers in the chemical, petro-chemical and refining business. Our employee handbook would address this, something to the effect "although an employee who is LTC may do so in company owned vehicles, it is the employees responsibility to not violate a customers policies in regards to weapons on their property. It will be the employees responsibility to secure his or her weapon in a maner that onlyhe or she has access to it, prior to traveling to a customer facility".....something like that.

Semper Fi!
-Mikie

I really think the concerns, with few exceptions, are more policy-oriented than actual breach of law. From a practical aspect, It'd come down to where I'm picking up and delivering than anything. The inbound inspection/search process at some Dow Chemical plants was actually more invasive than the search process I've been through making deliveries to prisons.

My dog was always allowed at the prisons as long as she stayed in the truck...Dow Chemical wanted her to stay at the guard shack. Fortunately, she was a people-lover, and it was usually a treat for her when she got to hang with new folks.

I can remember some locations providing me a lockbox/safe-deposit box for "contraband" items, but I really can't remember which ones. In those situations, I would be handed a lockbox, and allowed to fill it, lock it, and store it in their vault...this was for all sorts of things that might not be allowed on a plant (certain tools, flares, certain flammables, etc.) but I'm talking about explosives plants and facilities here.

One non-trucking company I worked for had a simple weapons policy to the effect of "No weapons are allowed except as specifically authorized by local, state or federal law.) I always thought that was a good approach...it states an intent, without violating any legal exceptions. I always took it to mean "The only people who can carry weapons here already know who you are."

[Jusme]

Just my two cents but why, if your employer wants to allow open carry by visitors, would he then want to verify their LTC? There is no penalty for a private business to allow open carry and they are under no legal obligation to verify the legality of the practice.