Almost went to jail!!!

[JALLEN]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

I don't think it is generally considered to be the Lege's responsibility to provide direction on how to comply with the law, and I doubt it has been tasked to DPS. The Lege's hands are full just dreaming up this stuff, arguing about it, going to parties and receptions, arranging honorariums for each other, and getting re-elected.

[Ruark]

This is awkward. I wouldn't OC past that sign, yet at the same time it's not legal. I don't want to get into a face-to-face with a cop. But if we take that approach, we won't OC past ANY no-guns sign, 30.07 or gunbuster or whatever.

Question: what legislation could be proposed for the next session that would resolve this? Throw some ideas at me.

[WildBill]

This is awkward. I wouldn't OC past that sign, yet at the same time it's not legal. I don't want to get into a face-to-face with a cop. But if we take that approach, we won't OC past ANY no-guns sign, 30.07 or gunbuster or whatever.

Question: what legislation could be proposed for the next session that would resolve this? Throw some ideas at me.

Resolve what?
Legislation is not the answer for all problems or issues.

[Breny414]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

Maybe they don't want to clutter up their entrance with the required signing in English and Spanish. While the sign is not compliant for 30.07, I would not walk past it because I know I would be asked to cover up or leave... I don't have a problem at all with that.

Any honest Joe who misses the non-compliant sign (or claims to) is protected in a court of law so long as they departed or concealed when asked (and didn't argue).

[TVGuy]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

Maybe they don't want to clutter up their entrance with the required signing in English and Spanish. While the sign is not compliant for 30.07, I would not walk past it because I know I would be asked to cover up or leave... I don't have a problem at all with that.

Any honest Joe who misses the non-compliant sign (or claims to) is protected in a court of law so long as they departed or concealed when asked (and didn't argue).

The poster I referenced didn't say anything about size or clutter.

[Breny414]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

Maybe they don't want to clutter up their entrance with the required signing in English and Spanish. While the sign is not compliant for 30.07, I would not walk past it because I know I would be asked to cover up or leave... I don't have a problem at all with that.

Any honest Joe who misses the non-compliant sign (or claims to) is protected in a court of law so long as they departed or concealed when asked (and didn't argue).

The poster I referenced didn't say anything about size or clutter.

Apologies, TVGuy, I was not directly addressing anyone in particular. I just quoted your post to provide the context of my $0.02, which in this case is the Freebirds photo.

[RedOdonnell]

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

Everywhere? Lol. Yeah, like they can just drop by H-E-B or Walmart and pick up a compliant sign.

It may not be difficult to mail order and put up a compliant sign, but that takes education & planning ahead. I'm in the shooting industry and local business owners were bugging us all week for OC details and wanted to know if they could stop by my store and purchase a 30.07 sign.

Many business owners were not even aware OC was about to go into effect until all the year end publicity started. Most had absolutely no clue how to legally prohibit it and were searching for legal signs.

BTW, one of my former CHL students works for H-E-B and he mentioned they were making preparations to add 30.07 signs...not sure how legit or if they changed their minds b/c I checked last night and no signs (at least locally)...yet.

[GlassG19]

Isn't this fixation on signs a bit misplaced?

In the case of 30.06, it makes some sense, as the business owner ordinarily would not know you had your weapon.

With open carry, the business owner/manager/security/whoever in apparent authority can hand you a card with the notice, or verbally advise you to the same effect, and you have effective notice. No sign required. You leave or face consequences.

But if it's going to be like this, what's the point in even having 30.07? I can see a lot of business owners, afraid to approach an armed stranger, calling the cops, then the cop comes out and gives the verbal notice. If that ball keeps rolling, the police are going to start running a "verbal notice service." "Hey, I gotta nut in here with a gun, can you come out and tell him to leave?" "Uh, yes sir, take a number, please."

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Tomtexan, You're so right. That is exactly my thought! I think the business owners need to some laws just like we have to adhere to the laws otherwise the average business owner(s) would just keep making the calls to LEO's. My thoughts are to try to keep LEO's out of it, WE AREN'T the CRIMINALS. Make Businesses take some responsibility if they don't want 30.07 people. I can't stress that enough, IMO.

[tomtexan]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

There is even a CHL instructor that advertises and sells 30.07 signs on his web site. Seems like somewhat of a conflict of interest to me.
http://www.stateoftexaschl.com/

[TVGuy]

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

Everywhere? Lol. Yeah, like they can just drop by H-E-B or Walmart and pick up a compliant sign.

It may not be difficult to mail order and put up a compliant sign, but that takes education & planning ahead. I'm in the shooting industry and local business owners were bugging us all week for OC details and wanted to know if they could stop by my store and purchase a 30.07 sign.

Many business owners were not even aware OC was about to go into effect until all the year end publicity started. Most had absolutely no clue how to legally prohibit it and were searching for legal signs.

BTW, one of my former CHL students works for H-E-B and he mentioned they were making preparations to add 30.07 signs...not sure how legit or if they changed their minds b/c I checked last night and no signs (at least locally)...yet.

I just googled three different ways (all in under a minute) and could have a complaint sign delivered wherever I wanted by 5pm tomorrow if I wanted. There are plenty of resources.

Additionally, I don't believe any serious business owner in Texas hasn't known that OC was coming. It's been covered by every major media outlet since it was signed into law early last summer. Chambers of Commerce, local police, DPS have all been talking about OC and what signs are needed.

I'm going to bet if you state what location the HEB is, you will have members confirm its posted. It seems to be the only one if not. All the rest are posted at the bottom of the door, often hidden behind product. There's an entire thread in this forum on that.

[TVGuy]

There is even a CHL instructor that advertises and sells 30.07 signs on his web site. Seems like somewhat of a conflict of interest to me.
http://www.stateoftexaschl.com/

Wow. Hope nobody takes this guy's class!

[mojo84]

This is awkward. I wouldn't OC past that sign, yet at the same time it's not legal. I don't want to get into a face-to-face with a cop. But if we take that approach, we won't OC past ANY no-guns sign, 30.07 or gunbuster or whatever.

Question: what legislation could be proposed for the next session that would resolve this? Throw some ideas at me.

The answer lies in common sense and individuals making their own decision of how to respond.

Hopefully, whatever one does, I hope they do it respectfully and without causing a scene.

I am going to take a noncompliant 30.07 sign as a warning or heads up that I am likely going to receive proper and effective notice if I disregard it and enter with an openly carried gun.

[GlassG19]

IF the law is not enforced on these non-compliant signs, then they can just stick up anything in the window like this one.

Out of curiosity, exactly which laws need enforcing here?

There are almost 1.8 million small businesses alone here in the State of Texas. When you stop and consider there has been virtually no direction from the legislature or DPS on how to properly handle OC, the overwhelming majority of these businesses have no clue what to due or where to get the proper signs.

What? Resources are everywhere.

It's not difficult to put up a compliant sign.

There is even a CHL instructor that advertises and sells 30.07 signs on his web site. Seems like somewhat of a conflict of interest to me.
http://www.stateoftexaschl.com/

WOW! That's all I can say about that, I'm speechless.

[flintknapper]

Ruark wrote:

This is awkward.

Yes, for all involved.

I wouldn't OC past that sign, yet at the same time it's not legal. I don't want to get into a face-to-face with a cop.

Not legal/compliant is correct, so it is each person's choice to take it to the next level (Verbal or Written notice). No one (including LEO wants this interaction) but it might be necessary...in order to get Merchants to comply.

But if we take that approach, we won't OC past ANY no-guns sign, 30.07 or gunbuster or whatever.

Correct, as I posted previously, herein lies the danger and it will affect both CC and OC. We shouldn't be in two different 'camps' but apparently that is the sad case. What is going to happen if this isn't sorted out RIGHT NOW while there is focus on it....is this:

Merchants will quickly learn that they can display any type of non-compliant sign, then call LEO to 'notify' (which is NOT the job of law enforcement, but the responsibility of the establishment). OR....someone acting with apparent authority for the establishment will simply say we don't want ANY guns in here" which drags CC into the mix. This does not need to happen.

IF law abiding citizens are required to COMPLY with all applicable law, then MERCHANTS should be too!

There has been a huge failure on the part of pro-gun advocates to EDUCATE or help facilitate the education of businesses prior to OC becoming law. I believe this to be the root of our problems.

And just a message to those who CC...but look down on OC. You'd better get on board...and start supporting ALL pro-gun issues. IF you don't....you are going to quickly find that with certain businesses, you've just been 'flying under the radar'. Let's do all we can to promote OC in the same way we did CC.

[Abraham]

My 30.06 comment was posted because the restaurant didn't ask the OCers to conceal, but to take them outside...