Fox News and Associated Press says Texas is uneasy

[mojo84]

Re: the off topic discussion on women in the military...

Free your mind, guys. The women that can hack it and make it in the military, will make it. Sexual dimorphism is still with us, but due to changes in our culture (more women in sports, etc.) that dimorphism is getting smaller, I think. If you look at elite athletes that are women, and there are plenty of them, they would run circles around 99% of men in most endeavors - other than other elite male athletes.

Special Forces are an elite group and there will be elite women able to cut the mustard.

As long as they meet all the same requirements the men are required to meet without lowering the standards, I think you may have a point.

[Abraham]

Breny414,

Are you prior military?

Those who offer their opinions without ever having been in, especially the war fighter MOS's, where the physical demands are severe, are offering up something they know nothing about.

But, yes, it's all the PC rage to equate women with men as physical equals.

Baloney!

[Breny414]

Breny414,

Are prior military?

Those who offer their opinions without ever having been in, especially the war fighter MOS's, where the physical demands are severe,are offering up something they know nothing about.

But, yes, it's all the PC rage to equate women with men as physical equals.

Baloney!

Yes, I was a 76y (supply clerk) in an Artillery battalion (M109, 155mm), I was not a gun-bunny myself.

There are women who will be able to do it. Back before 9/11, I, too, scoffed at the idea, and saw it as Bill and Hillary having no respect for the military and trying to gum it up. In a post 9/11 world, I think we all - including Bill, Hillary and Obama - see the importance of our National Defense. Therefore, I don't see the initiative as an attempt to undermine the military.

The main problems I see are harrasment issues, but I think that can be solved with good leadership, mentoring and proper education.

[IsraelisJewish]

This is bogus and just an excuse to hit on Texas. EVERY American is un-easy right now. I have not talked to one American who is not uneasy about the murders in San Bernadino. For a Fox News reporter to say they were not (and I don't know if they did not not) uneasy is fake and a lie. Anyone, no matter their religious, race, sex, etc., in America is not in their right mind if they are not uneasy. That being said I do what I feel to protect myself and family and am staying within the law of course. This picking on Texas, like they were not uneasy before (in light of Paris and etc.). It is the old liberal ploy to divide and construct division in order to push their agenda. Not a very caring attitude like they purport to have. IMO.

[suthdj]

Re: the off topic discussion on women in the military...

Free your mind, guys. The women that can hack it and make it in the military, will make it. Sexual dimorphism is still with us, but due to changes in our culture (more women in sports, etc.) that dimorphism is getting smaller, I think. If you look at elite athletes that are women, and there are plenty of them, they would run circles around 99% of men in most endeavors - other than other elite male athletes.

Special Forces are an elite group and there will be elite women able to cut the mustard.

As long as they meet all the same requirements the men are required to meet without lowering the standards, I think you may have a point.

This

When I was stationed in Germany there was a course(Platoon confidence training) in Bad Tolz run by Rangers our platoon trained twice a day 7 days a week for many months, we started the course with a little over 25 guys, only 11 of us finished it was a 2 week course with a few days in the mountains as the final test. This was the hardest thing I ever did in the Army if a woman can do it more power to her I will have no problem fighting beside her. If they want it then standards need to be equal.

[Abraham]

Breny414, (FIRE MISSION - A little Red Leg humor for you)

Supply clerks don't get to experience the up close/personal physical misery/monumental effort war fighters experience.

So, they don't really know the physical brutality it takes to keep up with the sheer, gut grinding effort to fight.

I will acknowledge a handful of women could hack it, but until and unless evolution creates mesomorphic Amazon women, few have what it takes to even be a simple Infantry soldier, never mind the extra it takes to be a Special Forces Operator.

I'm a bit curious with no insult whatsoever intended:

Are you a male or female?

[Breny414]

Breny414, (FIRE MISSION - A little Red Leg humor for you)

Supply clerks don't get to experience the up close/personal physical misery/monumental effort war fighters experience.

So, they don't really know the physical brutality it takes to keep up with the sheer, gut grinding effort to fight.

I will acknowledge a handful of women could hack it, but until and unless evolution creates mesomorphic Amazon women, few have what it takes to even be a simple Infantry soldier, never mind the extra it takes to be a Special Forces Operator.

I'm a bit curious with no insult whatsoever intended:

Are you a male or female?

I'm a male. FYI, Supply clerks are right there with their units, at least in the mechanized units like artillery. if they are hoofing it with light infantry, I couldn't tell you. So in a mechanized unit: no, we are not slogging, but in Germany (late 80's to early 90's in the 3rd ID) we were in the mud for sure.

And I have no doubt that women can slog with the best of us. The only problems I see are in harrasment, acceptance by their fellow soldiers, etc. Didn't you see Aliens? they can do it

[VMI77]

Javier730,

Were you in the military?

If so, what was your MOS?

Me, I was in the Army Infantry, MOS 11C10, 81mm mortars.

Ever hefted a mortar baseplate?

Very few women could. (It's a heck of a struggle for young, strong guys)

Yes, a very few women could, but not across the board. And, mortars aren't nearly as physically difficult to manhandle as mere ground pounders have to fight with, that is, vanilla Infantry soldiers (MOS11B10) who must ruck grueling, heavy loads for long distances while often under fire.

I do know that many feel compelled to over state what women can physically do. It feels chivalrous to say so, but it's simply not correct to equate the physical strength of women as the equal of men. It defies logic.

Do I sneer at women in the military? No! I admire them, but they cannot physically live up to the demands required of war fighters. Who, by the way, make up only 10% of the military. The other 90% are there in a support capacity.

Funny you mention mortar bases....I saw this comment on the weapons man blog:

Tim Canty
December 4, 2015 at 14:52

A friend who served as a Marine in Vietnam told me that his job involved humping a mortar base plate up and down mountains. When asked if a woman could do it, he replied that he doubted it, but as far as he was concerned she was welcome to the job.

[VMI77]

Breny414, (FIRE MISSION - A little Red Leg humor for you)

Supply clerks don't get to experience the up close/personal physical misery/monumental effort war fighters experience.

So, they don't really know the physical brutality it takes to keep up with the sheer, gut grinding effort to fight.

I will acknowledge a handful of women could hack it, but until and unless evolution creates mesomorphic Amazon women, few have what it takes to even be a simple Infantry soldier, never mind the extra it takes to be a Special Forces Operator.

I'm a bit curious with no insult whatsoever intended:

Are you a male or female?

I'm a male. FYI, Supply clerks are right there with their units, at least in the mechanized units like artillery. if they are hoofing it with light infantry, I couldn't tell you. So in a mechanized unit: no, we are not slogging, but in Germany (late 80's to early 90's in the 3rd ID) we were in the mud for sure.

And I have no doubt that women can slog with the best of us. The only problems I see are in harrasment, acceptance by their fellow soldiers, etc. Didn't you see Aliens? they can do it

Sounds like you've bought into the Hollywood hype where 5'6" 110 lb women beat up 6' 180 lb men. It's baloney. In fact, the Marines, through extensive testing, proved they can't pull their weight. Some of it, but not all the normal grunt stuff by any means. I served with women in the military and I remain distinctly unimpressed. I never encountered any of these fantastic equal or exceeding men specimens everyone keeps talking about and that are featured in Hollywood movies. Not one. What I saw were women who without exception couldn't or wouldn't perform at even moderately taxing physical standards.

All you guys that keep saying IF they meet the same standards.....well here's the news....they don't...and never have met the same standards. And even if they did in the past, the order from SecDef is that standards must be gender neutral. That means if women can't meet the existing standards they must be lowered...FOR WOMEN...PERIOD. There is not and never has been ANY INTENTION to require women to meet the same standards as the men. If you think this administration cares one whit about the military or the people in it you've bought the SJW propaganda hook line and sinker.

Special Forces and the Marines are the only ones that have even tried to hold the line on standards and they've been overruled. Years ago the Navy passed women pilots who couldn't meet the standards for night carrier landings and got people killed. This latest garbage will get people killed too. Of course this will never happen so it remains a thought experiment, but here's an experiment proposed by someone on the weaponsman blog:

DAN III
December 4, 2015 at 07:16

Here, I’ll state it again…..

Create a provisional battalion of female, ahem, “infantry”. Equip them the same as their now male counterparts. Drop them in the hills of Afghanistan for 30 days with a mission to hunt Hajii. No male support personnel allowed. No female “Supermen” on steroids allowed. Just your formerly average young American female who once dreamed of being married, having children and raising a family. Then we will see how soetoro-obama’s “fundamental change” works out.

In closing, here's very politically incorrect thought for you to ponder given that you're on a CHL forum. If women and men are equal why is rape an issue? You alluded to the movies....Hollywood has all these petite females beating the daylights out of men much bigger than them...why don't women simply beat up those men attempting rape? Sometimes yes, a given woman would be outmatched, but if they're "equal" physically you'd expect it to be about 50/50. Why are women considered more vulnerable and given more latitude in the use of deadly force? Shouldn't the average woman be able to deal with the average guy just as easily as the average guy can deal with the average guy? Why is wife beating an issue? If women can do what a man can do how come so many men, cowardly men actually, dare to assault women? Do these cowards who assault women usually dare to assault other men? If you're married, can your wife beat you up?

Let's flip the idea now...are you physically afraid of women? Are you at all concerned that if a woman attacked you physically you'd be unable to defend yourself? If so, what percentage of women are you afraid of? What percentage of men would you be afraid of? Do you get scared if a woman seems to be following you in a parking lot? Why or why not? Do you think a woman might be a little afraid or concerned about you following or seeming to follow her in a parking lot? Women are always talking about fearing strange men....why, if they're physically equal?

[Breny414]

Breny414, (FIRE MISSION - A little Red Leg humor for you)

Supply clerks don't get to experience the up close/personal physical misery/monumental effort war fighters experience.

So, they don't really know the physical brutality it takes to keep up with the sheer, gut grinding effort to fight.

I will acknowledge a handful of women could hack it, but until and unless evolution creates mesomorphic Amazon women, few have what it takes to even be a simple Infantry soldier, never mind the extra it takes to be a Special Forces Operator.

I'm a bit curious with no insult whatsoever intended:

Are you a male or female?

I'm a male. FYI, Supply clerks are right there with their units, at least in the mechanized units like artillery. if they are hoofing it with light infantry, I couldn't tell you. So in a mechanized unit: no, we are not slogging, but in Germany (late 80's to early 90's in the 3rd ID) we were in the mud for sure.

And I have no doubt that women can slog with the best of us. The only problems I see are in harrasment, acceptance by their fellow soldiers, etc. Didn't you see Aliens? they can do it

Sounds like you've bought into the Hollywood hype where 5'6" 110 lb women beat up 6' 180 lb men. It's baloney. In fact, the Marines, through extensive testing, proved they can't pull their weight. Some of it, but not all the normal grunt stuff by any means. I served with women in the military and I remain distinctly unimpressed. I never encountered any of these fantastic equal or exceeding men specimens everyone keeps talking about and that are featured in Hollywood movies. Not one. What I saw were women who without exception couldn't or wouldn't perform at even moderately taxing physical standards.

All you guys that keep saying IF they meet the same standards.....well here's the news....they don't...and never have met the same standards. And even if they did in the past, the order from SecDef is that standards must be gender neutral. That means if women can't meet the existing standards they must be lowered...FOR WOMEN...PERIOD. There is not and never has been ANY INTENTION to require women to meet the same standards as the men. If you think this administration cares one whit about the military or the people in it you've bought the SJW propaganda hook line and sinker.

Special Forces and the Marines are the only ones that have even tried to hold the line on standards and they've been overruled. Years ago the Navy passed women pilots who couldn't meet the standards for night carrier landings and got people killed. This latest garbage will get people killed too. Of course this will never happen so it remains a thought experiment, but here's an experiment proposed by someone on the weaponsman blog:

DAN III
December 4, 2015 at 07:16

Here, I’ll state it again…..

Create a provisional battalion of female, ahem, “infantry”. Equip them the same as their now male counterparts. Drop them in the hills of Afghanistan for 30 days with a mission to hunt Hajii. No male support personnel allowed. No female “Supermen” on steroids allowed. Just your formerly average young American female who once dreamed of being married, having children and raising a family. Then we will see how soetoro-obama’s “fundamental change” works out.

In closing, here's very politically incorrect thought for you to ponder given that you're on a CHL forum. If women and men are equal why is rape an issue? You alluded to the movies....Hollywood has all these petite females beating the daylights out of men much bigger than them...why don't women simply beat up those men attempting rape? Sometimes yes, a given woman would be outmatched, but if they're "equal" physically you'd expect it to be about 50/50. Why are women considered more vulnerable and given more latitude in the use of deadly force? Shouldn't the average woman be able to deal with the average guy just as easily as the average guy can deal with the average guy? Why is wife beating an issue? If women can do what a man can do how come so many men, cowardly men actually, dare to assault women? Do these cowards who assault women usually dare to assault other men? If you're married, can your wife beat you up?

Let's flip the idea now...are you physically afraid of women? Are you at all concerned that if a woman attacked you physically you'd be unable to defend yourself? If so, what percentage of women are you afraid of? What percentage of men would you be afraid of? Do you get scared if a woman seems to be following you in a parking lot? Why or why not? Do you think a woman might be a little afraid or concerned about you following or seeming to follow her in a parking lot? Women are always talking about fearing strange men....why, if they're physically equal?

My allusion to the movie Aliens was an attempt at humor, and was not a sincere attempt to justify women in combat roles. I believe they will succeed, however. I can see you're passionate about this issue and I can't fault you for that because there was a time I held similar views, but not any more. It's coming, so all I can say is free your mind and don't get all worked up about it.

Republicans are pretty much accepting the issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... in-combat/

Also, this is a forum about guns and guns are the great "equalizer. and military men and women carry guns. In answer to one of your questions about being afraid of women: I would be very afraid of a mal intended woman with a gun in a dark alleyway or parking garage. Or Rhonda Rousey.

[K.Mooneyham]

Breny414, (FIRE MISSION - A little Red Leg humor for you)

Supply clerks don't get to experience the up close/personal physical misery/monumental effort war fighters experience.

So, they don't really know the physical brutality it takes to keep up with the sheer, gut grinding effort to fight.

I will acknowledge a handful of women could hack it, but until and unless evolution creates mesomorphic Amazon women, few have what it takes to even be a simple Infantry soldier, never mind the extra it takes to be a Special Forces Operator.

I'm a bit curious with no insult whatsoever intended:

Are you a male or female?

I'm a male. FYI, Supply clerks are right there with their units, at least in the mechanized units like artillery. if they are hoofing it with light infantry, I couldn't tell you. So in a mechanized unit: no, we are not slogging, but in Germany (late 80's to early 90's in the 3rd ID) we were in the mud for sure.

And I have no doubt that women can slog with the best of us. The only problems I see are in harrasment, acceptance by their fellow soldiers, etc. Didn't you see Aliens? they can do it

Sounds like you've bought into the Hollywood hype where 5'6" 110 lb women beat up 6' 180 lb men. It's baloney. In fact, the Marines, through extensive testing, proved they can't pull their weight. Some of it, but not all the normal grunt stuff by any means. I served with women in the military and I remain distinctly unimpressed. I never encountered any of these fantastic equal or exceeding men specimens everyone keeps talking about and that are featured in Hollywood movies. Not one. What I saw were women who without exception couldn't or wouldn't perform at even moderately taxing physical standards.

All you guys that keep saying IF they meet the same standards.....well here's the news....they don't...and never have met the same standards. And even if they did in the past, the order from SecDef is that standards must be gender neutral. That means if women can't meet the existing standards they must be lowered...FOR WOMEN...PERIOD. There is not and never has been ANY INTENTION to require women to meet the same standards as the men. If you think this administration cares one whit about the military or the people in it you've bought the SJW propaganda hook line and sinker.

Special Forces and the Marines are the only ones that have even tried to hold the line on standards and they've been overruled. Years ago the Navy passed women pilots who couldn't meet the standards for night carrier landings and got people killed. This latest garbage will get people killed too. Of course this will never happen so it remains a thought experiment, but here's an experiment proposed by someone on the weaponsman blog:

DAN III
December 4, 2015 at 07:16

Here, I’ll state it again…..

Create a provisional battalion of female, ahem, “infantry”. Equip them the same as their now male counterparts. Drop them in the hills of Afghanistan for 30 days with a mission to hunt Hajii. No male support personnel allowed. No female “Supermen” on steroids allowed. Just your formerly average young American female who once dreamed of being married, having children and raising a family. Then we will see how soetoro-obama’s “fundamental change” works out.

In closing, here's very politically incorrect thought for you to ponder given that you're on a CHL forum. If women and men are equal why is rape an issue? You alluded to the movies....Hollywood has all these petite females beating the daylights out of men much bigger than them...why don't women simply beat up those men attempting rape? Sometimes yes, a given woman would be outmatched, but if they're "equal" physically you'd expect it to be about 50/50. Why are women considered more vulnerable and given more latitude in the use of deadly force? Shouldn't the average woman be able to deal with the average guy just as easily as the average guy can deal with the average guy? Why is wife beating an issue? If women can do what a man can do how come so many men, cowardly men actually, dare to assault women? Do these cowards who assault women usually dare to assault other men? If you're married, can your wife beat you up?

Let's flip the idea now...are you physically afraid of women? Are you at all concerned that if a woman attacked you physically you'd be unable to defend yourself? If so, what percentage of women are you afraid of? What percentage of men would you be afraid of? Do you get scared if a woman seems to be following you in a parking lot? Why or why not? Do you think a woman might be a little afraid or concerned about you following or seeming to follow her in a parking lot? Women are always talking about fearing strange men....why, if they're physically equal?

My allusion to the movie Aliens was an attempt at humor, and was not a sincere attempt to justify women in combat roles. I believe they will succeed, however. I can see you're passionate about this issue and I can't fault you for that because there was a time I held similar views, but not any more. It's coming, so all I can say is free your mind and don't get all worked up about it.

Republicans are pretty much accepting the issue: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/pl ... in-combat/

Also, this is a forum about guns and guns are the great "equalizer. and military men and women carry guns. In answer to one of your questions about being afraid of women: I would be very afraid of a mal intended woman with a gun in a dark alleyway or parking garage. Or Rhonda Rousey.

So women with firearms can be capable, yep, I accept that without any issue. But do infantry and other direct combat forces never get into hand-to-hand combat? I'm just a lowly Air Force aircraft mechanic, not combat in the least, and have worked with women who were quite capable mechanics. But I've also read quite a lot of military history written by folks who "went there, did that". I've read about battles that came down to knives and entrenching tools, and anything else at hand. Is that sort of combat never going to be encountered again? And Rhonda Rousey is not a good example to compare women to, just like Mike Tyson wouldn't be a good example to compare men to, either.

[Breny414]

So women with firearms can be capable, yep, I accept that without any issue. But do infantry and other direct combat forces never get into hand-to-hand combat? I'm just a lowly Air Force aircraft mechanic, not combat in the least, and have worked with women who were quite capable mechanics. But I've also read quite a lot of military history written by folks who "went there, did that". I've read about battles that came down to knives and entrenching tools, and anything else at hand. Is that sort of combat never going to be encountered again? And Rhonda Rousey is not a good example to compare women to, just like Mike Tyson wouldn't be a good example to compare men to, either.

It may well get to hand-to-hand combat. A trained U.S. soldier will have to use all of their guile, wits, training, feminine wiles (as the case may be), strength, grey matter, and etcetera to preceivear in that... no doubt.

[NotRPB]

I'll be more at ease when Turkey seals its borders because you know, cartoons and stuff

Radical Muslim Cleric – Banned From France & Canada – Caught At Mexican Border South of San Diego California curled up in a ball in the trunk of a car "Jaziri came to prominence in 2006 when he called for the murder of a Danish cartoonist that drew a rendering of the prophet Mohammed."
http://americanmilitarynews.com/2015/11 ... ialnetwork


ISIS scientists ready 2 wage chemical & biological war https://t.co/qU1XCQU8Ki

[anygunanywhere]

Jessica Lynch represents the most common woman in the military.

[VMI77]

Jessica Lynch represents the most common woman in the military.

I don't think the "women can do everything a man can do" types are going to understand your point.