What is a belt holster

[CoffeeNut]

All of this does beg the question, how long before we see the first holster marketed as "Texas Legal Belt Holster. You define it; we refine it. Only the finest grain leathers used."

Here it is!

I'm glad Chuck has other methods of defense at his disposal than the hammer down on empty chamber, 1911.

You tell him he's wrong. I'm not going to.

Actually I read that it is a Beretta 92, not a 1911.
If you want to know for sure you could call or send an email asking him if that is really a pimped out Beretta 92 that he carried on Walker Texas Ranger.

It's actually a Taurus PT92. The frame mounted safety gave it away.

Source

[nyj]

All of this does beg the question, how long before we see the first holster marketed as "Texas Legal Belt Holster. You define it; we refine it. Only the finest grain leathers used."

Here it is!

I'm glad Chuck has other methods of defense at his disposal than the hammer down on empty chamber, 1911.

You tell him he's wrong. I'm not going to.

Actually I read that it is a Beretta 92, not a 1911.
If you want to know for sure you could call or send an email asking him if that is really a pimped out Beretta 92 that he carried on Walker Texas Ranger.

It's actually a Taurus PT92. The frame mounted safety gave it away.

Source

Yep

[thetexan]

Here are some more points that generated my interest in the first place.

I don't like wearing anything but belts with elastic in them to make them more comfortable for me. Since I don't prefer the leather belts that are substantial enough to carry a belt holster that a belt slides through, I am interested in a paddle holster. Therein lies the question for me.

Listening to all of this many of the responses rely on assumptions that I don't make and thus I asked the question.

A simple thought experiment exposes much of the assumptions.

What language would the legislature have to use to unambiguously mean...

1....all holsters used on the waist of the pants at the belt line?
2....just paddle holsters
3....just belt holster that have slits that belts slip through, or clips that clip onto the belt

Many of the responses assume that the phrase "belt holster" answers number 1. Maybe. Maybe not. Whatever an AG might say or the courts you can be sure that they will rely on the canons of Statutory Interpretation to arrive at their decision. In that regard...

1. Did the legislature mean what the said and said what they meant when they said "belt" holster?
2. Is there an universally accepted industry distinction or definition of "belt" holster?
3. What is the common meaning and usage of "belt" when used to describe something ie "belt pack", "tool belt", "belt harness", "belt holster"
4. If the legislature meant "belt holster" to include all waist level, belt associated holsters including paddle holster, then what term would the legislature use if it only meant "paddle holster" to exclude holster with slits through which belts were worn.

It is true that until an AG or court decides we will be left to guess using as few assumptions as possible to come to a decision.

Remember that some of the tactical thigh holsters are supported on the belt with a thigh garter around the leg. By many of the definitions here that might qualify as a belt holster.

tex

[WildBill]

I don't like wearing anything but belts with elastic in them to make them more comfortable for me. Since I don't prefer the leather belts that are substantial enough to carry a belt holster that a belt slides through, I am interested in a paddle holster. Therein lies the question for me. tex

I wear a paddle holster, but always with a stiff leather or Wilderness Instructor belt.
My normal handguns are Colt Detective and Beretta PX-4SC.
Both are fairly heavy so I don't think an elastic belt would have enough support to keep the gun from sliding down off of your waist.
I can't imagine wearing a paddle holster without a belt, unless it was a very small .380 ACP.
I even wear my gun belts when I pocket carry.
Maybe I have just gotten used to the gun belts. I still use them even when I do not carry.
Maybe some other forum members will talk about their experience with paddle holsters.

[mr1337]

If something is not defined in statute, courts will use a definition that shifts the favor to the defendant as much as possible.

I don't think anyone is going to have any issues with paddle holsters, as they are worn on the belt.

Hopefully we can get the statute fixed to remove the words "belt or shoulder" and simply just say "in a holster." Or even better, drop the "belt or shoulder holster" requirement altogether. If I ever go hog hunting, I'd want to bring along a 300 BLK AR-15 pistol and wouldn't want to be in violation of the law due to an arbitrary requirement.

Disclaimer: Obviously not a lawyer

[C-dub]

Six pages on "What is a belt holster"

[LSUTiger]

Is this a belt holster?

The handgun sling

http://concealednation.org/2015/08/vide ... gun-sling/

[LSUTiger]

Six pages on "What is a belt holster"

That just means it needs to be properly defined with no wiggle room for interpretation.

Without properly defined terms I might interpret a sling to be a shoulder holster. I don't think it is but a sling holds my gun from the shoulder. Serves the same purpose as a holster.

[goose]

Six pages on "What is a belt holster"
[ i m g ]https://i0.wp.com/media.tumblr.com/tumb ... r8zvof.gif[/ i m g ]

That is funny, right there.

[mojo84]

If there really is a man in the moon and the moon really is made of cheese, is it really a belt or shoulder holster?

If one has to come up with qualifiers to make it not a belt or shoulder holster, then it's probably a belt or shoulder holster.

Common sense dictates if it is designed to attach to or be held by a belt or shoulder, it's probably acceptable. If common sense doesn't seem enough for you, just wear a holster you think is a belt or shoulder holster. I don't think this is where the cops will be splitting hairs. Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

[joelamosobadiah]

If there really is a man in the moon and the moon really is made of cheese, is it really a belt or shoulder holster?

If one has to come up with qualifiers to make it not a belt or shoulder holster, then it's probably a belt or shoulder holster.

Common sense dictates if it is designed to attach to or be held by a belt or shoulder, it's probably acceptable. If common sense doesn't seem enough for you, just wear a holster you think is a belt or shoulder holster. I don't think this is where the cops will be splitting hairs. Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

This. If this doesn't work for you, modify your paddle holster to add belt loops and thread your belt through it. This would be simple enough to do.

[The Wall]

Not going to read through six pages of comments. It's very simple. If it attaches to or is supported by a belt, and is worn around the waist, it's a belt holster. Don't the written/published laws give definitions?

[thetexan]

I originally wanted to know if we had reached a consensus and we haven't.

The bottom line is this...

1. Lot's of guessing
2. Lot's of assuming
3. Lot's of making determinations based on guessing and assuming
4. Lot's of willingness to bet one's possible conviction on the defense of "common sense" in a world where prosecutors take pride in their convictions.

Of course, I asked for it. Since a consensus of the forum doesn't determine the actual legal definition. I just thought someone might have gotten some insight on the subject.

The reason this might be an important point is this. It is almost certain that a not a few persons might have to explain their openly carried firearm to a LEO who is responding to a MWAG report. The close scrutiny of the LEO in the course of doing his investigation will most probably bring close scrutiny to all aspects of the situation including whether the holster meets requirements.

No, under normal circumstances no will will notice the difference between a belt and paddle holster, of course. It's when a LEO starts taking careful interest in you, your gun, and your holster, that it might be an issue. I would think that at that very moment you would want to be in compliance especially if there is an accepted difference between the two.......as the holster industry seems to think there is!!!!!

And yes, if I don't feel comfortable with the ambiguity I will use a belt holster. I would prefer the paddle holster, and thus the question.

tex

[Glockster]

If there really is a man in the moon and the moon really is made of cheese, is it really a belt or shoulder holster?

If one has to come up with qualifiers to make it not a belt or shoulder holster, then it's probably a belt or shoulder holster.

Common sense dictates if it is designed to attach to or be held by a belt or shoulder, it's probably acceptable. If common sense doesn't seem enough for you, just wear a holster you think is a belt or shoulder holster. I don't think this is where the cops will be splitting hairs. Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

This. If this doesn't work for you, modify your paddle holster to add belt loops and thread your belt through it. This would be simple enough to do.

Furbis makes an attachment to all of their paddles that will then allow you to thread a belt through.

[Glockster]

Just make sure it's not in your hand or stuck in your waistband without a holster.

That does bring up one thing that I've been wondering about as Texas doesn't have a brandishing law per se, and disorderly conduct covers display in a manner calculated to alarm, so wonder what will happen the first time someone is seen resting their hand on their holstered gun and someone either calls it in as a MWAG because they "touched it" or a LEO sees that and decides that it was. I bring that up because I lived in a state where OC was so "normal" that frankly both LEO and OC'ers often could be seen resting their hand on their gun, to the point that it was covered in my CHP class and the instructor made a point that doing that in front of the wrong person could become a problem for you.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;