What is a belt holster

[C-dub]

In my opinion, a paddle holster meets the requirements of HB910 as a belt holster.

My initial intent, upon the signing of HB910, was to carry openly in an in waistband holster. I'd simply tuck my shirt behind or in front of the pistol as the situation required. However, this summer I was carrying openly at a model rocket contest in Tucson, AZ, when I had cause to reconsider. A fellow contestant, not local, asked why I was not carrying in a holster. That got me to thinking.

If the average citizen sees my method of carry as a gun stuck in the waistband without a holster, it seems reasonable that they would be more likely to be concerned than if the pistol was in an outside the waistband holster. Further, law enforcement officers would have to look closely to see that the pistol as in a holster. All this would seem to tend to lead to more law enforcement scrutiny.

I'm attending the Citizen Police Academy in my city. My intent is to get acquainted with the officers and their procedures. Before the course is over, I will learn their concerns and intent about holsters.

My intent now is to carry concealed, IWB, at work. Outisde of work, I'll switch to paddle or threaded OWB as the mood strikes me and the situation allows.

I'm confused by your post and why/how someone wouldn't see the holster of a paddle holster, unless you're only talking about an IWB holster? Speaking for myself, im referring to an OWB Fobus holster, which is clearly visible as a holster. The only part which is not visible would be the actual paddle attached to my belt.

I believe he's referring to an IWB looking like its just stuck in the waistband. I can see how the uninitiated and the sheeple may get that idea.

That is also the way I read Oljames3's post.

[oljames3]

I'm confused by your post and why/how someone wouldn't see the holster of a paddle holster, unless you're only talking about an IWB holster? Speaking for myself, im referring to an OWB Fobus holster, which is clearly visible as a holster. The only part which is not visible would be the actual paddle attached to my belt.

Sorry about being unclear. I have three holsters for my BTA-90. When carrying concealed, such as at work, I carry in a Galco IWB holster under my shirt. Last August, my 18 year old son and I spent 10 days flying rockets in the desert outside of Tucson, AZ. He carried a .45, I carried my BTA-90 IWB with the shirt tucked behind the pistol. After a non-local commented about my not using a holster, I switched to an OWB, threaded belt, holster with a snap-strap. I also have a paddle holster with no retention.

I consider all three to be belt holsters. I wore my OWB Fobus paddle holster to church this morning, under my suit coat. It was the most comfortable choice, today.

[Glockster]

I'm confused by your post and why/how someone wouldn't see the holster of a paddle holster, unless you're only talking about an IWB holster? Speaking for myself, im referring to an OWB Fobus holster, which is clearly visible as a holster. The only part which is not visible would be the actual paddle attached to my belt.

Sorry about being unclear. I have three holsters for my BTA-90. When carrying concealed, such as at work, I carry in a Galco IWB holster under my shirt. Last August, my 18 year old son and I spent 10 days flying rockets in the desert outside of Tucson, AZ. He carried a .45, I carried my BTA-90 IWB with the shirt tucked behind the pistol. After a non-local commented about my not using a holster, I switched to an OWB, threaded belt, holster with a snap-strap. I also have a paddle holster with no retention.

I consider all three to be belt holsters. I wore my OWB Fobus paddle holster to church this morning, under my suit coat. It was the most comfortable choice, today.

HUA, thanks!

[AJSully421]

I talked to me cop buddy at church today. I asked if his dept. had given them any "policy and procedures" for calls about open carry. He said it sounded pretty cut and dry, and that he had been through a Computer Based Training about OC and that all that the training said is that the handgun had to be in a shoulder or belt holster. No discussion or details about paddle / drop leg / anything else. He took it as basically "It has to be in a holster".

The one thing he did say that caught his ear was that the training said that if an officer sees a person open carrying that they may approach them and ask to see a LTC. While that is true, an officer can approach you and ask you anything, much like any other person can... what the training did not go on to say was what options that the officer has the legal ability to do if a person refuses to show a LTC outside of PC / RS situation.

In some ways, this is good news.

[casp625]

I consider all three to be belt holsters. I wore my OWB Fobus paddle holster to church this morning, under my suit coat. It was the most comfortable choice, today.

Please forgive what may be a noob question and I know that it is a little off topic but I see that you carry at church. I have read a few other members' posts which discussed carrying at church. I thought that we could not carry in a place of worship. Did something change in the last few years?

-Average Joe

Here is the law, however, I can't find which bill this language was added to, so I don't know the date:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
...
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

[JALLEN]

This is confusing.

What if you wear slacks that do not require/use a belt?

Is this another one of those deals where the Lege is under great pressure to do something they would really rather not, so they fashion the something to be completely ridiculous?

[Beiruty]

This is confusing.

What if you wear slacks that do not require/use a belt?

Is this another one of those deals where the Lege is under great pressure to do something they would really rather not, so they fashion the something to be completely ridiculous?

Nothing in the new law, says you should have a belt on you. All what it says carried in belt or shoulder holster.

[AJSully421]

I consider all three to be belt holsters. I wore my OWB Fobus paddle holster to church this morning, under my suit coat. It was the most comfortable choice, today.

Please forgive what may be a noob question and I know that it is a little off topic but I see that you carry at church. I have read a few other members' posts which discussed carrying at church. I thought that we could not carry in a place of worship. Did something change in the last few years?

-Average Joe

Here is the law, however, I can't find which bill this language was added to, so I don't know the date:

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER.
4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;
(5) in an amusement park; or
(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.
(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.
...
(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Subsection (i) was added by HB 2909 in the 75th Leg. 1997 - same bill that established 30.06... first session after CHL was passed. We wasted no time.

You see, we had to negotiate to get CC passed by adding in things like this, then we turned around and immediately started fighting to repeal some parts and get what we really wanted. This is the same pattern that has worked for OC, and I anticipate that next year we will get a few more things knocked off in our favor... we just need to stay the course and do what works. That is where Charles comes in. I listen to him intently on these matters.

[mojo84]

This is confusing.

What if you wear slacks that do not require/use a belt?

Is this another one of those deals where the Lege is under great pressure to do something they would really rather not, so they fashion the something to be completely ridiculous?

Wear a shoulder holster, conceal carry or pocket carry.

[WildBill]

What if the law said you had to carry it in a shoulder purse?

Would that mean you had to carry the purse on your shoulder for it to be legal?

[Glockster]

What if the law said you had to carry it in a shoulder purse?

Would that mean you had to carry the purse on your shoulder for it to be legal?

That's sort of like what I've wanted (deep down inside) to say - which is that I don't need a holster to hold my belt nor a holster to hold my shoulder.

Forgive me.

[oljames3]

If you have doubts about your holster complying with the law, don't wear that holster until your doubts are settled. I plan to openly carry my pistol on 1/1/16 in a belt holster. This holster attaches to my belt by means of a loop through which my belt passes. I see this as a simple solution to the question.

Between now and 1/1/16, I'll be discussing the ramifications of open carry with my attorney and local law enforcement. After 1/1/16, I'll see what happens. YMMV.

[RedRaiderCHL]

I think you guys are putting to much thought into this whole "belt holster" and "shoulder holster" wording..

I believe the way that the new OC statutes are worded is to the absolute benefit of the carrier. Reason being is any holster you wear on your waist is considered a belt holster.. whether it be a Blackhawk serpa holster, a leather paddle holster, a crossbreed IWB holster, or even a drop holster (because it does have to be connected to your belt to work properly).. As for the shoulder holster provisions in the statute, I think it was put in there as well to give the carrier more freedom of choice when it comes to carrying.. For example, if you don't want to carry your full-size handgun on your basketball shorts on the way home from the gym because the combination of the paddle holster and the weapon is to heavy to sit on your waistline nicely, then you have the option to wear a shoulder holster.

I mean think about it. Under both the provisions of "belt holster" and "shoulder holster" what do they leave out? I mean if you want to be the knucklehead open carrying your piece on your ankle then I suppose they left you out but as far as im concerned every possible angle you could possible want carry openly in has been explicitly allowed for us.

just my thoughts on the matter.

I can offer one thing left out...now mind you, am not suggesting that I'd do it as OC or that anyone should, simply pointing out an example. Sticky holster - designed to fit into your pants pocket. IF someone were to use that, not so much to OC but instead a case of CC with a "just in case it exposes" during a carry, that perhaps it might have been nice to have been covered. Yes, I understand intentional display vs accidental, but that's been subject to an interpretation that could get you a ride. I look forward to OC using a belt holster for CC simply for the reason that with that I will not worry about an exposure which I know was accidental but someone else might decide to view it as otherwise. Again, just offering this one up as a "too bad" example, and know that if I have my BUG in a sticky holster that I will still have to ensure that it isn't seen, even if I had a belt holster weapon inches away and OC'ed.

That's a completely different argument.. reason being is because unintentional exposures of someones weapon are still covered under the previous statutes.. this type of holster is meant for concealed carry. if you can some how make it an OC holster than you are going out of your way to make a holster do something its not meant to do; and if you are using it correctly and someone does notice.. you don't fall under the OC "belt or shoulder holster" rule because you are concealed carrying..

[Glockster]

I think you guys are putting to much thought into this whole "belt holster" and "shoulder holster" wording..

I believe the way that the new OC statutes are worded is to the absolute benefit of the carrier. Reason being is any holster you wear on your waist is considered a belt holster.. whether it be a Blackhawk serpa holster, a leather paddle holster, a crossbreed IWB holster, or even a drop holster (because it does have to be connected to your belt to work properly).. As for the shoulder holster provisions in the statute, I think it was put in there as well to give the carrier more freedom of choice when it comes to carrying.. For example, if you don't want to carry your full-size handgun on your basketball shorts on the way home from the gym because the combination of the paddle holster and the weapon is to heavy to sit on your waistline nicely, then you have the option to wear a shoulder holster.

I mean think about it. Under both the provisions of "belt holster" and "shoulder holster" what do they leave out? I mean if you want to be the knucklehead open carrying your piece on your ankle then I suppose they left you out but as far as im concerned every possible angle you could possible want carry openly in has been explicitly allowed for us.

just my thoughts on the matter.

I can offer one thing left out...now mind you, am not suggesting that I'd do it as OC or that anyone should, simply pointing out an example. Sticky holster - designed to fit into your pants pocket. IF someone were to use that, not so much to OC but instead a case of CC with a "just in case it exposes" during a carry, that perhaps it might have been nice to have been covered. Yes, I understand intentional display vs accidental, but that's been subject to an interpretation that could get you a ride. I look forward to OC using a belt holster for CC simply for the reason that with that I will not worry about an exposure which I know was accidental but someone else might decide to view it as otherwise. Again, just offering this one up as a "too bad" example, and know that if I have my BUG in a sticky holster that I will still have to ensure that it isn't seen, even if I had a belt holster weapon inches away and OC'ed.

That's a completely different argument.. reason being is because unintentional exposures of someones weapon are still covered under the previous statutes.. this type of holster is meant for concealed carry. if you can some how make it an OC holster than you are going out of your way to make a holster do something its not meant to do; and if you are using it correctly and someone does notice.. you don't fall under the OC "belt or shoulder holster" rule because you are concealed carrying..

I guess that I missed my point, so trying again. For example, I can take a sticky holster and depending upon the size of the gun, have it fit mostly inside of my pocket, with just the back of the grip showing. That holster is for that gun, fits the way that it is supposed to, but the pocket may simply not be deep enough to completely conceal the gun. If you do that, and go out that way, you are then I believe in violation of the law as you knew that the gun was partially exposed and that it wasn't a belt holster. If the pocket was an inch deeper, in compliance. That's what I was meaning about it being too bad as I don't see a lot of difference between it being legal because it is in a deeper pocket on one hand and slightly showing on the other. Same gun, same holster.