One in the chamber?

[Bitter Clinger]

Some interesting points made here:

http://pistol-training.com/archives/183

[LabRat]

What do you all think about carrying with one in the chamber? I always said I would, but... Makes me nervous. Thoughts? I carry a glock 43, it would be almost impossible to engage the safety without meaning to, what about if you tripped or something and landed right on the gun?

I always carry with 1 in the chamber. Racking in an emergency is just too risky; my life my depend on that split second (assuming I do it correctly under pressure, the round chambers and I can get on target quickly.)

I carry a 1911, cocked and locked. When needed for defense; thumb safety down and she's ready to go. I practice drawing and disengaging the safety is 1 smooth motion. Even that takes time to perfect.

As stated earlier, each person must do what's best and most comfortable for them. No one will judge you based on that choice.
But do practice and train adequately to ensure you can go into the fight with more than a paperweight.

Carry on.

LabRat

[treadlightly]

I am always aware there's one in the chamber, but I'd always be aware of the muzzle even if the gun were dry. In my nightmares I worry about EMP or alpha particle storms unbalancing the primer and setting the gun off, but what fun would nightmares be if they weren't unreasonable things? The gun fires as the result of being triggered, this and nothing more.

Protect the trigger, that's the thing. Never carry without a holster that covers the bang switch no matter what safeties the gun has or doesn't have. A worthy holster is a more universal safety than anything else. A pocket is not a holster, by the way.

There are guns I wouldn't carry in Condition One without a safety, my lovely 1911's being the first ones to come to mind. Cocked and locked, those tools are docile until deliberately called upon. For safety-less firearms, I prefer a long pull. If shorter, I feel OK if the pull is six or seven pounds just so long as I can hit with it.

As a kid I was taught a very cloistered form of gun safety and I cherish those lessons learned. Now, as I walk through what will almost certainly never turn into the valley of the shadow of death, I practice much more unforgiving ways. There are lines that cannot be crossed in gun handling. Convey a loaded weapon (and they all are, of course) through life and it amounts to an oath never to compromise common sense or tempt harsh physics. Might as well chamber a round, you need to carry safely, anyway.

Other than that, lock and load and have a great day.

[SoloXCRacer]

Don't mean to stir the pot, but you should see this. :)

[Eric Lamberson]

Regardless of how you carry -- train, train, train. If there is any doubt go to YouTube and look up "Armed Customer stops armed robber in Wisconsin." This gentleman is carrying with an empty chamber; however, he has not trained himself to rack the slide when he draws his pistol. At the critical moment, under stress he fails to rack the slide. He realizes his mistake and immediately racks the slide and opens fire on the bad guy. The instant between the moment he draws his pistol and when he opens fire could have cost him his life.

[dlh]

My conceal carry is a Glock 26 and I "Israeli Carry" meaning no round in the chamber. I believe the odds of a negligent discharge are higher than the odds of getting attacked and having to use my firearm. I understand all of this is a slippery slope. My odds of getting attacked are less than my odds of not getting attacked but I still conceal carry.

Below is a link to a very excellent article thoroughly discussing Israeli Carry. The author of the article carries with a round in the chamber but he spends some time justifying Israeli carry.

http://thinkinggunfighter.blogspot.com/ ... r-why.html

dlh

[Middle Age Russ]

The common observation that most folks make is that the circumstances are dire before they consider drawing their sidearm, and therefore an immediacy of action is required. Anything they can do in preparation to act immediately is a good thing, like having a sidearm to begin with and having it loaded and ready to use RIGHT NOW.

That said, everyone has their own comfort level regarding the sidearm they carry and carry conditions. I don't consider carrying WITHOUT a round chambered. If I was carrying an old single action revolver, I'd down-load to five and the hammer would be down on the empty chamber, but when the hammer is cocked a live round is in the chamber under the hammer. If the gun is mechanically sound, I feel perfectly safe with a round chambered and the gun in a holster that doesn't allow anything to manipulate the trigger. No trigger movement = no round going off.

If you consider carrying without a round in the chamber, spend a good bit of time practicing presentation from the holster and making the gun ready with dummy rounds. The last thing you need is to have a dead trigger when a round on target is required.

[rotor]

I carry appendix style and do not carry with one in the chamber. Everyone with their own comfort level. A discharge from appendix draw would probably be fatal to me. I already have a Taurus back to the factory so no firearm is perfect. Also depends on the firearm. Trigger safety like a Glock would make me uncomfortable with one in the chamber. It's all a risk vs benefit game so I guess I learn to rack fast if I need to and realize that I carry one round less than if I carried one in the chamber. I know the majority say I am wrong. Is it still standard for the military to not have one in the chamber?

[C-dub]

While waiting for my license to arrive, I OCed around the house without a round in the chamber. It might have taken me a week to realize that if I needed it there was also a high probability that I would not have the time to get one in the chamber before needing to fire it. So, in the chamber one went. By the time the license did arrive I was comfortable with that and didn't have any issues out in public.

[twomillenium]

There are many reasons to carry chambered and not chambered. If you carry unchambered because you are unsure of your handling of a chambered pistol, then you should definitely get more training. If you are carrying chambered because someone else says your stupid not to carry chambered, then carrying chambered did not solve your stupidity.

However you carry, you must be the one that makes that decision for yourself. If you do not train and practice, practice, practice then do everyone a favor and leave the pistol at home, carry pepperspray or taser but not a lethal tool that you do not know how to use.

[jimlongley]

The IDPA club I used to belong to tried an ad hoc test of the concept.

We proved two things.

First, if you don't practice with a particular technique, you will not be proficient at it. Read that to mean that most of us carried with a round in the chamber.

Second, it is slower to draw and rack the slide than it is to draw and fire, even when you don't mess it up. Even the guys who normally carried with an empty chamber ran about a half second slower than the guys who didn't.

This was run as a stage where you ran through it once with your normal carry method, and again with the opposite. Times were longer with the slide rack added, even by the people who normally carried that way.

Our non-scientific determination was that you should carry the way you are most comfortable, but be aware that a slide rack will cost you time so if you carry on an empty chamber, start your draw at least a half second earlier than you would if you were carrying on a full chamber.

[oljames3]

What do you all think about carrying with one in the chamber? I always said I would, but... Makes me nervous. Thoughts? I carry a glock 43, it would be almost impossible to engage the safety without meaning to, what about if you tripped or something and landed right on the gun?

This is my own method. Y'all pick your own. The most important thing is not how we carry, but that we do carry and that safely and legally.

I carry my DA/SA semi-automatic pistol with a round in the chamber. I've done my risk analysis and decided that this method is safe for my pistol and me. My thought is that, worst case, I want to be able to draw, release the safety, and fire with one hand. Works for me. YMMV.

[Skiprr]

My humble opinion is that carrying without one in the chamber provides you with, in the majority of instances in which you might need it, a potentially useful striking implement.

When this subject comes up, there is always a lot of discussion about the added time--not to mention the practice--it takes to draw, rack, present, and engage as opposed to draw, present, engage. But I'd argue that time is perhaps not the most important factor.

Outside of your home or an active shooter event, the best information we have shows that 90% of the time employment of use of deadly force will happen at a distance of less than 15 feet: 6 to 15 feet, 9%; 3 to 6 feet, 47%; contact to 3 feet, 34%. This is one reason to disregard examples of carry by the military (other than SpecOps), including Israeli Carry. Concealed carry in an urban environment is quite dissimilar to the typical military carry. Remember, too, that seeing multiple assailants in violent crimes is not uncommon.

Inside a radius of 10 feet, defending your life is about fighting, not about marksmanship. If you were Zatoichi and could slice a fly on the wing in half with the 28-inch katana you had at your side, you very likely wouldn't need to carry a handgun. But we can't carry a sword, don't have those kinds of skills, and need something to help put us on (nearly) equal footing with the felon.

Reaction will always be slower than action. If the bad guy is even 15 feet from you and has immediate intention to do you harm, you're already way on the downside of the OODA Loop; you need every bit of help you can get. That means training first--both evasive and combatives--and tools second.

With a handgun, it isn't so much about the additional time needed to rack the slide as it is the additional hand required to do it. Essentially, it's the difference between carrying an Uncle Buck manual folding knife compared to a modern, spring-assist folder. If the only tool you have on your person is a knife and a bad guy rushes you from 15 feet, or has already encroached closer than 6 feet to ask if you the directions to wherever, which do you want? The Uncle Buck or a tactical folder that you can bring to play with one hand?

I have no misconceptions about my physical abilities as they decline with age. If I have to defend my life or my family's, I would choose a quickly deployable tool that fires an effective projectile rather than a 32-ounce metal-and-polymer mini-club.

This is also why I advocate a draw stroke that includes an indexed position pressed high against the ribcage before press-out. I'm not an advocate of the rock-and-lock...but even that is seldom practiced by most CHLers. The most practiced drawstroke, and what you'll see in IDPA and USPSA competition, is the one that rewards presentation to full, extended sight picture as quickly as possible. Statistics show that 81% of the time, the bad guy will be 6 feet or less from you. Patterning the conventional drawstroke is a recipe for failure at that distance.

Inside of 6 feet, even if you have time, you absolutely do not want to extend the gun toward the target at all. You want that handgun high and tight to your body where it's very difficult to grab or deflect, and you want your offhand free to block or strike. We seldom have the ability to practice this at the range simply because of the inherent safety concerns. But there's always dry-fire and Airsoft. IMHO, this pectoral-indexed position and the ability to deliver shots to the pelvic girdle of an attacker within arm's length should be practiced by every CHL holder to the point of unconscious competence. To me it stands to reason that if 80% of potential engagements happen at close distances, handling that situation should get 80% of my training.

And if you don't have one in the chamber ready to go, your best hope is that the bad guy is frightened enough by the mere site of your gun that he runs away. Just sayin'...

[Cowboyhockey14]

I always carry with one in the chamber. I dont feel like if I needed to draw my weapon, I would have enough time to rack one back. Cops carry with one in the chamber, Why wouldn't a CHL carrier??

[dlh]

I always carry with one in the chamber. I dont feel like if I needed to draw my weapon, I would have enough time to rack one back. Cops carry with one in the chamber, Why wouldn't a CHL carrier??

Cops carry "in the chamber" because they are at far greater risk of harm than the average conceal-carry-holder. They also have their share of negligent discharges despite all of the training they go through.

dlh