LEO's:When 30:06 Signs Are Invalid What Do You Do?

[Abraham]

If you as an LEO recognize that a business posted an invalid 30.06 sign, would you still honor it if a CHLer is discovered to be carrying inside said business?

Some examples of invalid 30.06 signs: The sign is typed on legal sized lined note paper, or is not in both English and Spanish or the size of the letters are well under the required 1" and the list of what can make a 30.06 sign invalid goes on and on.

Since the business made an attempt at posting a 30.06 sign, though technically invalid as illustrated above, the attempt alone is good enough for you to bust a discovered carrying CHLer?

Or, you recognizing the 30.06 sign is invalid, the CHLer found to be carrying in the business, is not busted.

What say you?

Thanks!

[The Wall]

Don't ask, and don't tell. If you're gun is properly concealed they will probably never know. And if they find out, just say I'm sorry and leave immediately.
Or even better just don't use their business. Certainly don't tell them that they are improperly posted. This could be an out for the next guy that goes in there carrying.

[Beiruty]

I am not an LEO.
However, correct course of action:
1) LEO would ask the trespasser to leave the premises.
A) if the trespasser leaves, then no problem.
B) if the trespasser does not leave, then the trespasser can be arrested as the he was legally notified and the 30.06 sign does not matter at that time.

[Abraham]

Guys, I appreciate your input, but I'm looking for LEO input...

[ELB]

I'm thinking that any LEO who would answer this at all would go no farther than "I would enforce the law and how I would do it depends on the facts of that particular situation." If he would say that much.

[locke_n_load]

Some LEO - let 'em go, didn't technically break the law.
Other LEO - arrest and let the DA figure it out.

Doesn't take a LEO to tell you that. People are different, including cops.

[R DAVIS]

If a LEO KNOWS it is not a valid sign and arrests you anyway (deprives you of your liberty as the US Constitution states), then he / she and the department are subject to lawsuit for false arrest, and possible criminal charges for a civil rights violation.

Of course if the property owner has otherwise notified you, verbally or on a card etc., and you do not immediately leave the premises, then you are in violation of trespass law, and subject to arrest.

I seriously doubt you are going to get any LEO to answer that he / she would arrest you when they know you did not violate the law. What kind of answer are you fishing for?

[nightmare69]

I'm a deputy sheriff. Keep in mind I frequent this forums and hold a valid CHL. I like to think I have a good understanding of CHL laws.

I would go look at the sign them get out my phone where I have a pic of a valid 30.06. If the sign didn't meet ALL the requirements of TPC 30.06 then I would inform the compliant. I'm sure after that you would be given verbal notice thus banning you from carrying at that location. You would would then be free to leave.

10-8 no report.

[stash]

At least for valid 3006 signs this does change on 1/1/16, correct?

[Abraham]

nightmare69,

Thank you for taking the time to respond and answer my question.

[WildBill]

I'm a deputy sheriff. Keep in mind I frequent this forums and hold a valid CHL. I like to think I have a good understanding of CHL laws.

I would go look at the sign them get out my phone where I have a pic of a valid 30.06. If the sign didn't meet ALL the requirements of TPC 30.06 then I would inform the compliant. I'm sure after that you would be given verbal notice thus banning you from carrying at that location. You would would then be free to leave.

10-8 no report.

I would hope this would be the normal procedure for any LEO in that situation.

[Abraham]

Given some LEO's aren't up to date on some of the fine particulars regarding 30.06 signage, I'm concerned about the "the attempt at a 30.06 sign is good enough" for me LEO's.

Plus, I don't completely rely on the "concealed is concealed" because there are instances of accidental gun exposure, i.e., the recent CHLer tackled in Walmart when another customer saw the man's gun and decided to go vigilante...thus if someone unexpectedly exposes his gun to another customer, who then calls in a MWAG and the police show up, arrest the CHLer, believing the invalid sign was good enough.

[nightmare69]

Please understand that If LEOs knew every little detail and studied every aspect of the penal code we would have chosen a better paying career, like became an attorney.

[Abraham]

nightmare69,

Yes, of course, and that's what concerns me.

I've no doubt the good intentions of the various unschooled LEO's regarding valid and invalid signs.

Invalid signs thought to be adequate for an arrest is my concern...

[treadlightly]

Here's a related question - today at lunch we wandered into a newish restaurant we'd eaten at a couple of times, call it the Brand X Bar and Grill.

The "bar" part of the name didn't mean much to me, and although I knew they served beer I didn't really think of the place as a bar, or as a liquor establishment.

We sat down at one of the tables, ordered, got about halfway through the meal and my wife innocently asks "What does a red 51 mean on a sign?"

I completed the bite of hamburger steak I was hoovering up and asked where, pray tell, did she see a red 51 on a sign?

Behind me (and beside what I have to admit was a bar), on the other side of a floor-to-ceiling partition, through one of the glassless windows cut into the wall, was a 51% sign. The place is small, but it is divided between a bar area and a dining area. The sign isn't at the door. I've been on the other side of that partition and I'd swear the sign is new. The whole place is new, it would make sense the sign might have gone up in the last few days.

The TABC's posting for the establishment just indicates the red sign, it doesn't say anything about what portion of the premises are off-limits to CHL.

We were on our motorcycle, so there wasn't much privacy to disarm. I gulped down my last two bites, got the check, paid, and we left.

The fact there was a bar didn't register. There's also a soda shop in town that has a bar with barstools. It's not 51% or posted 30.06. Seems business as usual for me to carry there. The restaurant just didn't seem any different. I had no intention of committing a crime.

And, for an absolute fact, I'm not carrying there again - unless...

How can I tell what portion of a business is 51%? I've heard of bars in restaurants or in hotel lobbies where the bar was 51% but the rest of the place wasn't.

Complicating things, of course, is I believe the sign doesn't have to be there for it to be a crime to carry.

Barring positive indication the restaurant half of the place isn't included in the 51% posting, I'm not carrying there again.

What do you think? 51% buried inside a building - is just the bar off limits?