No Guns At Office of County Tax Assessor

[eromrab]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I was going to the Harris County Tax Office on Shepherd and saw the linked no gun sign. After reading your posts and seeing the "court in session" sign inside, I decided against carrying.

What is the legally correct thing to do?

[Mel]

I believe you're right. If there is "court in session", carry is illegal regardless of signs.

[Keith B]

I believe you're right. If there is "court in session", carry is illegal regardless of signs.

Actually, if there is a court on the premise, in session or not, it is against the penal code to carry there.

[Mel]

I believe you're right. If there is "court in session", carry is illegal regardless of signs.

Actually, if there is a court on the premise, in session or not, it is against the penal code to carry there.

That's what I meant. Listen to what I mean, not what I say!

[Keith B]

I believe you're right. If there is "court in session", carry is illegal regardless of signs.

Actually, if there is a court on the premise, in session or not, it is against the penal code to carry there.

That's what I meant. Listen to what I mean, not what I say!

Yes dear!

[Mel]

I believe you're right. If there is "court in session", carry is illegal regardless of signs.

Actually, if there is a court on the premise, in session or not, it is against the penal code to carry there.

That's what I meant. Listen to what I mean, not what I say!

Yes dear!

That's better!

[baldeagle]

I found this thread so far to be confusing.[/url]

I'm not surprised. There's plenty of opinion spouted in this thread but precious little reference to the actual statutes.

It's understood IANAL.

OK, but at least you have enough sense to quote the statutes.

*PC$46.035(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally,
knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority
of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of
whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental
entity.

**PC$46.035(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor
was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So this means that unless a meeting is properly posted, you may enter concealed. Improper signage, such as the OP cited, has no authority under the law.

***PC$30.06(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property
on which the license holder cames a handgun is owned or leased
by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which
the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under
Section 46.03 or 46.035.

This means that governmental entities cannot bar licensed carriers. There are exceptions in other parts of the statutes, such as jails, courthouses, prisons and properly posted meetings.

The crux of the disagreement here seems to be what constitutes a meeting under the law. The meaning of the word meeting is not defined in 46.035. In the Government Code a meeting is defined as is a governmental body. I've highlighted the relevant sections.

GOVERNMENT CODE

TITLE 5. OPEN GOVERNMENT; ETHICS

SUBTITLE A. OPEN GOVERNMENT

CHAPTER 551. OPEN MEETINGS

SUBCHAPTER A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

This section was amended by the 84th Legislature. Pending publication of the current statutes, see S.B. 1296 and S.B. 679, 84th Legislature, Regular Session, for amendments affecting this section.

Sec. 551.001. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Closed meeting" means a meeting to which the public does not have access.
(2) "Deliberation" means a verbal exchange during a meeting between a quorum of a governmental body, or between a quorum of a governmental body and another person, concerning an issue within the jurisdiction of the governmental body or any public business.
(3) "Governmental body" means:
(A) a board, commission, department, committee, or agency within the executive or legislative branch of state government that is directed by one or more elected or appointed members;
(B) a county commissioners court in the state;
(C) a municipal governing body in the state;
(D) a deliberative body that has rulemaking or quasi-judicial power and that is classified as a department, agency, or political subdivision of a county or municipality;
(E) a school district board of trustees;
(F) a county board of school trustees;
(G) a county board of education;
(H) the governing board of a special district created by law;
(I) a local workforce development board created under Section 2308.253;
(J) a nonprofit corporation that is eligible to receive funds under the federal community services block grant program and that is authorized by this state to serve a geographic area of the state; and
(K) a nonprofit corporation organized under Chapter 67, Water Code, that provides a water supply or wastewater service, or both, and is exempt from ad valorem taxation under Section 11.30, Tax Code.
(4) "Meeting" means:
(A) a deliberation between a quorum of a governmental body, or between a quorum of a governmental body and another person, during which public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control is discussed or considered or during which the governmental body takes formal action; or
(B) except as otherwise provided by this subdivision, a gathering:
(i) that is conducted by the governmental body or for which the governmental body is responsible;
(ii) at which a quorum of members of the governmental body is present;
(iii) that has been called by the governmental body; and
(iv) at which the members receive information from, give information to, ask questions of, or receive questions from any third person, including an employee of the governmental body, about the public business or public policy over which the governmental body has supervision or control.
The term does not include the gathering of a quorum of a governmental body at a social function unrelated to the public business that is conducted by the body, or the attendance by a quorum of a governmental body at a regional, state, or national convention or workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference, if formal action is not taken and any discussion of public business is incidental to the social function, convention, workshop, ceremonial event, or press conference.
The term includes a session of a governmental body.
(5) "Open" means open to the public.
(6) "Quorum" means a majority of a governmental body, unless defined differently by applicable law or rule or the charter of the governmental body.

Text of subdivision as added by Acts 2013, 83rd Leg., R.S., Ch. 87 (S.B. 471), Sec. 1

So the Tax Assessors Board is a governmental entity and an appeals hearing is a meeting. The problem with this one is that it was not properly signed, so carrying at the hearing would have been perfectly legal.

On a side note, it's interesting to me that you can legally carry in the legislative sessions as well as committee hearings, and I would certainly consider those meetings. I don't know if the legislature specifically exempted themselves or simply chose not to post to set an example for others.

[Mel]

I thought we were talking about a court, not a meeting. I believe the op said "court in session".

How about PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a)(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

[mojo84]

I thought we were talking about a court, not a meeting.

How about PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a)(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

I just scanned the thread. Where did you get that it was a court?

[Mel]

Sorry to revive an old thread, but I was going to the Harris County Tax Office on Shepherd and saw the linked no gun sign. After reading your posts and seeing the "court in session" sign inside, I decided against carrying.

What is the legally correct thing to do?

The post that brought the thread back to life.

[mojo84]

Sorry about that. Apparently, I scanned past that.

I can see the confusion if there is a courtroom adjacent to or near the tax assessor's office.

[eromrab]

Yes, when you walk into the building... the doors on the outside have the signs shown above. I looked around and there was no 30.06 or any other sign.

Then, when you walk into the building, you're in a lobby where you get your license plates in the room on the left and there is a court room on the right with a sign that says "court is in session."

Some of the posts said that if you're not IN the government meeting (court session), then the sign doesn't apply to me... but also that they need to post the correct signage for it to be valid (30.06)?

Sigh. So confusing.

[ScottDLS]

Yes, when you walk into the building... the doors on the outside have the signs shown above. I looked around and there was no 30.06 or any other sign.

Then, when you walk into the building, you're in a lobby where you get your license plates in the room on the left and there is a court room on the right with a sign that says "court is in session."

Some of the posts said that if you're not IN the government meeting (court session), then the sign doesn't apply to me... but also that they need to post the correct signage for it to be valid (30.06)?

Sigh. So confusing.

Courts off limits whether they post or not and whether the are in session or not.

PC §46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense
if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a
firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):
...
(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court,
unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;
...

The question is whether the tax assessors office is "offices used by the court" or "premises of the court".

In the absence of a court you can carry in a (state/local) government building unless you are at a properly posted meeting of a governmental entity.