If Obama gets relected.....

[RoyGBiv]

Considering that's the only history exposure some kids get...that's a problem.

I'm not disagreeing... I'm just pointing the finger at bad parenting.
Failure to teach your kids to recognize a person pushing a personal agenda disguised as "knowledge".
Your parents (or a trusted someone) did their job with you as I feel mine did with me and hopefully I'll do with my kids.

In the 60's and 70's college kids were as liberal as you could imagine. The Free Love Generation. But they had parents at home with a spine, pride in personal achievement. Expectations for their children that went beyond video games and complaining about not having things given to them and the involvement to make sure their kids learned those values. Certainly more so than today's kids.

I don't blame liberals for having their opinions. I blame parents for sending their kids out to listen to that stuff without arming them with the ability to think for themselves.

I expect my kids to survive any attempts at indoctrination because I'm involved. I go to their school when I see things I don't like. And I sit the kids down and explain my reasoning. [They LOVE that (/sarcasm), but it works ... I'd say I'm up to maybe 30% retention .]

Critical thinking. The foundation of Freedom.

[74novaman]

I don't blame liberals for having their opinions. I blame parents for sending their kids out to listen to that stuff without arming them with the ability to think for themselves.

I expect my kids to survive any attempts at indoctrination because I'm involved. I go to their school when I see things I don't like. And I sit the kids down and explain my reasoning. [They LOVE that (/sarcasm), but it works ... I'd say I'm up to maybe 30% retention .]

Critical thinking. The foundation of Freedom.

Very good points, I agree 100%.

[canvasbck]

TAM,

While by and large I agree with your post, I have to disagree with a few of your statements. IMO, conservatism is about limited government, period. The downfall of the Republican party was from it being run by neocons after the Reagan years.

They started out pushing for fiscal conservatism while expanding the power of government to include legislating many moral issues. Eventually the Republican Party stopped the practice of fiscal conservatism and only recently regained the desire to cut spending and taxes after the Tea party rose to prominence.

The Party still has a desire for government to be involved in people’s daily lives to make sure they aren’t gambling on the internet, involved in a gay relationship, ect. This is NOT conservatism.(I'm not talking about abortion here, which is the taking of a life and goes beyond a "moral" issue.) The libertarians that are in the Republican Party (small l on purpose) understand that conservatism goes beyond fiscal matters. A government that has the power to intrude into an individuals life, even in situations that go against our religious and moral beliefs, is a government that is ripe for tyranny. I believe that a Republican Party that embraces social nannystatism is doomed to failure.

I will admit that I am currently a man without a party. I believe in the ideas of Republicans that are on the campaign trail such as a strong defense, free market capitalism, entitlement reform, limited spending, lower taxes. I wish that those platforms followed them after the elction.

I side with the Libertarian party when it comes to the Government staying out of our daily lives and only having the powers EXPRESSLY granted to it by the constitution (If the Libertarian Party weren't so weak on defense, I would probably be a "capital L" Libertarian).

I agree with Democrats on .........well, nothing.

[sookandy]

The OPs link makes me think of the Molotov Ribbentrop deal. And we all know how that turned out.

[Dave2]

The OPs link makes me think of the Molotov Ribbentrop deal. And we all know how that turned out.

Never heard of it... Off to Google!

... oh, that. I didn't realize it had a special name.

Edit: Thanks, RoyGBiv

[RoyGBiv]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov% ... ntrop_Pact

[03Lightningrocks]

If Obama is re-elected, I will blame the religious right... Which is the single biggest reason we have Obama as a president right now. Maybe if the religious right could step down off their high horse for a change, folks won't be as terrified of their agenda as they are of the leftist agenda. I don't welcome the government in my moral affairs any more than I want them redistributing my hard earned money to less industrious citizens than I. I vote republican because I like my money more than I am worried about the moral minority forcing their religious beliefs on me. Many are more concerned in the other direction. Religious fanatics have taken the GOP hostage and I am scared folks are not taking the fanatics for the joke that they are.

Try some of this and life will be much better for us all. Get out of my bedroom.... Quit legislating morals. Quit using my money to pay for others choices! It's not my job to feed you or cloth you... It is also not my right to tell you how to live your life.

I will vote for anyone but Obama because I know his group is more likely to accomplish their goals than the religious fanatics are to accomplish their goals. Both groups are a threat to my ideals of freedom.

[terryg]

TAM,

While by and large I agree with your post, I have to disagree with a few of your statements. IMO, conservatism is about limited government, period. The downfall of the Republican party was from it being run by neocons after the Reagan years.

They started out pushing for fiscal conservatism while expanding the power of government to include legislating many moral issues. Eventually the Republican Party stopped the practice of fiscal conservatism and only recently regained the desire to cut spending and taxes after the Tea party rose to prominence.

The Party still has a desire for government to be involved in people’s daily lives to make sure they aren’t gambling on the internet, involved in a gay relationship, ect. This is NOT conservatism.(I'm not talking about abortion here, which is the taking of a life and goes beyond a "moral" issue.) The libertarians that are in the Republican Party (small l on purpose) understand that conservatism goes beyond fiscal matters. A government that has the power to intrude into an individuals life, even in situations that go against our religious and moral beliefs, is a government that is ripe for tyranny. I believe that a Republican Party that embraces social nannystatism is doomed to failure.

I will admit that I am currently a man without a party. I believe in the ideas of Republicans that are on the campaign trail such as a strong defense, free market capitalism, entitlement reform, limited spending, lower taxes. I wish that those platforms followed them after the elction.

I side with the Libertarian party when it comes to the Government staying out of our daily lives and only having the powers EXPRESSLY granted to it by the constitution (If the Libertarian Party weren't so weak on defense, I would probably be a "capital L" Libertarian).

I agree with Democrats on .........well, nothing.

Well said Canvasbck! Great summary and pretty much exactly how I feel.

[mamabearCali]

If Obama is re-elected, I will blame the religious right... Which is the single biggest reason we have Obama as a president right now. Maybe if the religious right could step down off their high horse for a change, folks won't be as terrified of their agenda as they are of the leftist agenda. I don't welcome the government in my moral affairs any more than I want them redistributing my hard earned money to less industrious citizens than I. I vote republican because I like my money more than I am worried about the moral minority forcing their religious beliefs on me. Many are more concerned in the other direction. Religious fanatics have taken the GOP hostage and I am scared folks are not taking the fanatics for the joke that they are.

Try some of this and life will be much better for us all. Get out of my bedroom.... Quit legislating morals. Quit using my money to pay for others choices! It's not my job to feed you or cloth you... It is also not my right to tell you how to live your life.

I will vote for anyone but Obama because I know his group is more likely to accomplish their goals than the religious fanatics are to accomplish their goals. Both groups are a threat to my ideals of freedom.

I have to respectfully disagree. The reason we have Obama is Iraq and the emotional insanity that seemed to overcome people at the thought of the country's first black president. It has nearly nothing to do with social issues.

As for not legislating morality. All law is based on morality. Not allowed to murder someone--based on morality. Not allowed to steal--based on morality. Not allowed to cheat and gain an unfair advantage--based on morality. Not allowed to assault people--based on morality. Unless you are saying that right and wrong simply come from the consensus of the people in that case then the murder of the Jews was perfectly legal, and slavery was perfectly legal. So we can, and do legislate morality every where you look. As for what someone does in the bedroom I don't care, but keep it out of my kids school. How about this, we keep school to reading, writing, math, science, history, and a sprinkling of the arts and let each parent teach their own children about the birds and the bees.

As for "quit using my money to pay for other's choices"---well not sure how that is tied to religious fanaticism, as it seems to be the dems doing that. They are the ones making people who believe that hormonal birth control to be sin pay for it.

[canvasbck]

If Obama is re-elected, I will blame the religious right... Which is the single biggest reason we have Obama as a president right now. Maybe if the religious right could step down off their high horse for a change, folks won't be as terrified of their agenda as they are of the leftist agenda. I don't welcome the government in my moral affairs any more than I want them redistributing my hard earned money to less industrious citizens than I. I vote republican because I like my money more than I am worried about the moral minority forcing their religious beliefs on me. Many are more concerned in the other direction. Religious fanatics have taken the GOP hostage and I am scared folks are not taking the fanatics for the joke that they are.

Try some of this and life will be much better for us all. Get out of my bedroom.... Quit legislating morals. Quit using my money to pay for others choices! It's not my job to feed you or cloth you... It is also not my right to tell you how to live your life.

I will vote for anyone but Obama because I know his group is more likely to accomplish their goals than the religious fanatics are to accomplish their goals. Both groups are a threat to my ideals of freedom.

I have to respectfully disagree. The reason we have Obama is Iraq and the emotional insanity that seemed to overcome people at the thought of the country's first black president. It has nearly nothing to do with social issues.

As for not legislating morality. All law is based on morality. Not allowed to murder someone--based on morality. Not allowed to steal--based on morality. Not allowed to cheat and gain an unfair advantage--based on morality. Not allowed to assault people--based on morality. Unless you are saying that right and wrong simply come from the consensus of the people in that case then the murder of the Jews was perfectly legal, and slavery was perfectly legal. So we can, and do legislate morality every where you look. As for what someone does in the bedroom I don't care, but keep it out of my kids school. How about this, we keep school to reading, writing, math, science, history, and a sprinkling of the arts and let each parent teach their own children about the birds and the bees.

As for "quit using my money to pay for other's choices"---well not sure how that is tied to religious fanaticism, as it seems to be the dems doing that. They are the ones making people who believe that hormonal birth control to be sin pay for it.

The examples you cite are beyond morality issues, they all involve one human being victimizing another. I am all for the government passing laws to protect innocent citizens from being the victim of a predator. What I totally disagree with is the government passing laws forbidding behavior that only harms the person engaging in the activity. It is the government’s place to protect us from predators. It is NOT the government’s place to protect me from myself.

While I don't engage in many of these activities, I think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, sodomy laws, internet gambling laws, drug posession laws, and other similar laws do nothing but remove freedoms. Again, I do not condone any of these activities and find some of them offensive and sins against God, but it is not man's place to enforce these.

[mamabearCali]

The examples you cite are beyond morality issues, they all involve one human being victimizing another. I am all for the government passing laws to protect innocent citizens from being the victim of a predator. What I totally disagree with is the government passing laws forbidding behavior that only harms the person engaging in the activity. It is the government’s place to protect us from predators. It is NOT the government’s place to protect me from myself.

While I don't engage in many of these activities, I think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, sodomy laws, internet gambling laws, drug posession laws, and other similar laws do nothing but remove freedoms. Again, I do not condone any of these activities and find some of them offensive and sins against God, but it is not man's place to enforce these.

If that is the direction we want to go I am 99% ok with that. I think there could be serious issues though here and there. I am not sure it can be argued that a married man who visits a prostitute does not hurt someone....if he is married he hurts his wife. If a meth lab next door blows up and injures my children playing in my yard, that hurt someone. If a person high on a designer drug jumps off a building and hits a person walking out a door, someone got hurt. So there would be some wrinkles to iron out there.

Pot however is a different story, if you want to make yourself stupid I see no reason to stop you. As far as helmet saftey laws. Ok, you want to be an idiot, I guess you can be. I was always told by riding enthusiasts that you never go cheap on a helmet after all it is your head that is inside it! Sodomy laws--don't care, just keep it in your bedroom and out of the school room. Internet gambling--if you are stupid enough to do it, go ahead. Personally I never have fun when I lose money. Seatbelts, I always use mine, but not using one should be something your wife and kids nag you about, not that the state gets to steal your $$ for.

If we can fix those little wrinkles here and there, then that sounds good to me.

But NONE of those issues was why Pres Obama was elected. He was elected because of war weariness, a stumbling economy, and the chance at the first President with darker skin. Not social issues.

[anygunanywhere]

The examples you cite are beyond morality issues, they all involve one human being victimizing another. I am all for the government passing laws to protect innocent citizens from being the victim of a predator. What I totally disagree with is the government passing laws forbidding behavior that only harms the person engaging in the activity. It is the government’s place to protect us from predators. It is NOT the government’s place to protect me from myself.

While I don't engage in many of these activities, I think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, sodomy laws, internet gambling laws, drug posession laws, and other similar laws do nothing but remove freedoms. Again, I do not condone any of these activities and find some of them offensive and sins against God, but it is not man's place to enforce these.

There is no such thing as an activity (sin) that affects only the person doing the activity. This fact (truth) is not evident to everyone but is the truth.

Every one of your examples affect someone else. We are all members of the human race. All of us affect each other in more ways than is obvious, and we will never know the extent of what we do until our judgement day when we face God.

Anygunanywhere

[mamabearCali]

The examples you cite are beyond morality issues, they all involve one human being victimizing another. I am all for the government passing laws to protect innocent citizens from being the victim of a predator. What I totally disagree with is the government passing laws forbidding behavior that only harms the person engaging in the activity. It is the government’s place to protect us from predators. It is NOT the government’s place to protect me from myself.

While I don't engage in many of these activities, I think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, sodomy laws, internet gambling laws, drug posession laws, and other similar laws do nothing but remove freedoms. Again, I do not condone any of these activities and find some of them offensive and sins against God, but it is not man's place to enforce these.

There is no such thing as an activity (sin) that affects only the person doing the activity. This fact (truth) is not evident to everyone but is the truth.

Every one of your examples affect someone else. We are all members of the human race. All of us affect each other in more ways than is obvious, and we will never know the extent of what we do until our judgement day when we face God.

Anygunanywhere

That is true, but then we have to ask what is the role of gov't then. Is it to legislate our behavior, or to ensure our God given rights. Just mulling this over in my head......

[old farmer]

The examples you cite are beyond morality issues, they all involve one human being victimizing another. I am all for the government passing laws to protect innocent citizens from being the victim of a predator. What I totally disagree with is the government passing laws forbidding behavior that only harms the person engaging in the activity. It is the government’s place to protect us from predators. It is NOT the government’s place to protect me from myself.

While I don't engage in many of these activities, I think that seat belt laws, helmet laws, sodomy laws, internet gambling laws, drug posession laws, and other similar laws do nothing but remove freedoms. Again, I do not condone any of these activities and find some of them offensive and sins against God, but it is not man's place to enforce these.

There is no such thing as an activity (sin) that affects only the person doing the activity. This fact (truth) is not evident to everyone but is the truth.

Every one of your examples affect someone else. We are all members of the human race. All of us affect each other in more ways than is obvious, and we will never know the extent of what we do until our judgement day when we face God.




So you need to go vote. Then pray to your god that right person wins. After the election, the winner is the president. The constitution is foundation of the USA.

PS FYI
Homeland Security is online. If you grow up in the country.then you know about a party line ...
Sorry for the pun

Anygunanywhere

[anygunanywhere]

So you need to go vote. Then pray to your god that right person wins. After the election, the winner is the president. The constitution is foundation of the USA.

PS FYI
Homeland Security is online. If you grow up in the country.then you know about a party line ...
Sorry for the pun

I will vote.

I will pray. Already do, for America in particular and for those opposed to America, including BHO.

The constitution is the foundation of the USA, and it was written by God fearing men who understood where our rights originated, and that good laws are also based on God's law.

Anygunanywhere