Mitt Romney talks about gun control in 2007

[Oldgringo]

Look here.

TAM has summed it up rather succintly. Either vote for the current POTUS OR vote for someone with a chance of beating him. There is no middle, feel good, ground.

[TLE2]

I will not not vote, which is what voting for a third party candidate is doing.

I will not vote for the Obamanation, ever!

Mitt is not my choice, but he is better than the alternative, just not the best alternative.

"Four more years", could be the last four years...

[Kabong30]

Romney is not Obama and that is enough for me. We can hem and haw about it all day long, but it's hard to argue that another term for Obama would be a good thing for our nation. Throw the bum out, at least we should be able to depend on Romney to stop putting the Constitution in the shredder.

[tallmike]

I guess my fundamental disagreement with many of you is that I think the 8 years under Bush were FAR more harmful to the nation than the 4 years under Obama have been. Obama has done less than Bush to erode my liberty or empower his office, in fact I can't think of anything he has done to me that I do not believe any R president would do.

Coming from that perspective the idea of an R with no spine, who will be in favor of or opposed to any issue that earns him favor with someone that may vote for him later, is not more appealing to me than a D with no desire to get anything done but secure an 8 year legacy.

Can anyone please tell me what Obama has done so terrible during these past 4 years? I just don't see the danger in him that many of you seem to feel.

[texasmusic]

Ever hear of Affordable Care Act????

[The Annoyed Man]

When someone decides to vote 3rd party, they are accepting (whether or not they want to) a hardcore reality: that their guy will never win. Not ever.

This can go on and on, but there's two fundamentally disturbing things going on here, from my perspective:
1) The world is not static. Political parties change over time, some go away, another takes its place. We are currently dominated by a two-party system, but the reality is that we are not mandated to have a two-party-only system. This type of us-or-them thinking has put us in a difficult position, because our decision making could very well be paralyzed by simply choosing the lesser of two evils, which only results in more "evil." For instance, I'm disinclined to think that the GOP is genuinely committed to putting a rein on the budget in a meaningful way, because the only way to do that (genuinely) is that it will hurt _all_ voters financially (probably not literally, but pain would be felt broadly). The notion that the Libertarian party, for instance, suddenly launching to prosperity as the GOP craters in delusional gerrymandering is just as possible as the Democratic party self-destructing from too many group hugs and being replaced by the "Social Justice Party" (or whatever palatable-to-American-tastes name you can find for "socialists").

I agree that third parties have replaced cratering majority parties in the past (whigs/republicans ante-bellum), but it is very very rare, and in this particular election cycle, it's a non-runner. In this election cycle, the president will emerge from either the democrat or republican parties. That's just a fact of life.

2) I think that we debase ourselves by railing against the character of people that would choose to not to vote for the Romney ticket. The reality is that people on the OTHER side are saying the same thing to people that say, "I'm considering voting for somebody else." (probably moreso, in fact) I've made no secret about the fact that I like Gary Johnson _more_ than Romney. He's certainly a LOT more friendly to 2A rights than Romney (very true story). Does that mean I'm going to vote Libertarian in the general election? I dunno, Libertarian's seem to have difficulty with concepts like "borders" or "foreign policy", and those are important issues to me as well. But IF I did vote for him, I know if I did I would _never_ think I was throwing my vote away, nor would I take pleasure in somebody accusing me of the same. Like any voter, I can and will vote my informed conscience, and shame on the people that don't. It may very well be, in the course of the next 7 months, that I am content with what Romney does. I don't know, but I'm keeping an open mind. 7 months is a VERY long time in election politics, however.

I'm not trying to play Rodney "Cant We All Just Get Along?" King here, this is politics, and we all have passions about who we want as a leader (or more accurately: Who we DON'T want as a leader ). I think we make ourselves better people by speaking passionately about what convinces us to choose a certain person, rather than investing words and emotions into why we think somebody else is making a "foolish" choice.

OldCannon, for the record, I have not attacked the character of conservative third party voters. I HAVE strongly disputed their perception of what is going on, and I have strongly argued against what I perceive to be the unwisdom of "throwing away" a vote at what I believe to be the most critical juncture in American politics since I first became politically aware many years ago. I have also expressed despair that some voters seem to refuse to see those things—which seem so plainly evident to me—and that I believe this will eventually lead to the dissolution of the nation as we currently know it. That is not the same thing as calling those voters traitors. But I simply won't back down from expressing my belief that this is misguided, because it will eventually lead to the very things that we ALL rail against as conservatives, whether we are republicans or not.

The one exception I've said in detraction was in regards to independents—not as individuals, but as a group—for electing Obama, and then for being surprised about what they got and 2 years later turning against him. Well, duh. The fact that they voted for him disproves the old saw that Independents tend to self-identify as right of center. They may self-identify as such, but that is not how they voted in 2008, because any sentient being knew going in that Obama was pretty far left of center.

[tallmike]

Ever hear of Affordable Care Act????

Really? All of this hatred over a misguided attempt at enacting socialized healthcare? An attempt that will ultimately be struck down by the SC and never really be put into action?

I guess the law never affected me, and likely never will, so I have no strong opinion about it. I hate medicare and social security far more.

[OldCannon]

But I simply won't back down from expressing my belief that this is misguided, because it will eventually lead to the very things that we ALL rail against as conservatives, whether we are republicans or not.

My uncle, still a practicing pastor up in Amarillo, told me that Jesus wanted us to preach the gospel of love, rather than tell people they were cursed to eternal damnation if they didn't bring Jesus into their hearts. It would seem to me that the strength of your argument should be based on the merits of the candidate you support, not on telling them how "obviously" misguided they are I think that's the core of my argument.

[03Lightningrocks]

Enough of us real Americans will exercise our right to vote that the Republican will get Texas as usual. I don't take anyone serious who thinks they are making a positive statement by not voting. Truth is... Most of the folks I hear squawking about not voting wouldn't vote anyway and I will bet rarely do. Finding an excuse to go home after work instead of voting is convenient . No worry... Your not needed in Texas anyway. Texas always goes Republican.

[lbuehler325]

I'll vote. But I certainly cannot get behind either Obama or Romney. Neither respects or understands the Constitution or Bill of Rights. A statist with an (R) behind his name is still a statist. I will write in a candidate who understands liberty, and my conscience will be clear. If we really were trying to beat Obama, might I suggest we nominate someone who isn't exactly like Obama in so many ways.

[texasmusic]

Ever hear of Affordable Care Act????

Really? All of this hatred over a misguided attempt at enacting socialized healthcare? An attempt that will ultimately be struck down by the SC and never really be put into action?

I guess the law never affected me, and likely never will, so I have no strong opinion about it. I hate medicare and social security far more.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I was not a Jew...

I can only hope it gets struck down. Then again we have medicare and SS today... Welcome to the world where the government can mandate X because you live and breathe. You might not care about the specific application in this bill, but don't take the precedent lightly.

[anygunanywhere]

Ever hear of Affordable Care Act????

Really? All of this hatred over a misguided attempt at enacting socialized healthcare? An attempt that will ultimately be struck down by the SC and never really be put into action?

I guess the law never affected me, and likely never will, so I have no strong opinion about it. I hate medicare and social security far more.

Social security and medicare issues are small potatoes compared to obamacare.

If you think that obamacare has not/will not affect you, you need to do a little research.

It will not take you long.

Anygunanywhere

[03Lightningrocks]

I'll vote. But I certainly cannot get behind either Obama or Romney. Neither respects or understands the Constitution or Bill of Rights. A statist with an (R) behind his name is still a statist. I will write in a candidate who understands liberty, and my conscience will be clear. If we really were trying to beat Obama, might I suggest we nominate someone who isn't exactly like Obama in so many ways.

Write in Fred Flintstone if you want, but the important thing is that we vote! Hearing anyone saying they aren't going to vote because their prefered candidate isn't on the ballot makes me nuts. The right to vote is what makes America great!

[03Lightningrocks]

Ever hear of Affordable Care Act????

Really? All of this hatred over a misguided attempt at enacting socialized healthcare? An attempt that will ultimately be struck down by the SC and never really be put into action?

I guess the law never affected me, and likely never will, so I have no strong opinion about it. I hate medicare and social security far more.

Social security and medicare issues are small potatoes compared to obamacare.

If you think that obamacare has not/will not affect you, you need to do a little research.

It will not take you long.

Anygunanywhere

It already has affected Tallmike, he just doesn't realize it. Insurance premiums have gone through the roof over parts of Obamacare that have already gone into affect and benefit very few people. It was just a great excuse to jack up premiums. Thanks to Obamacare, the rates at my company are 70% higher than three years ago!!! That is for less benefits!!! No cap is one problem. We had a ten million dollar cap before. Nobody is going to hit ten million dollars anyway, but that retard acts as if he is doing us a favor to take the cap away. Result??? Insurance company raises rates! I could go on but need to get to work and make sure the sixteen families I help support are working and happy today. I will say this Tallmike. You are paying more for insurance because of Obamacare... needlessly I might add. You or your employeer is paying for it. Folks like TAM get hosed! You see nothing wrong with that clown, Obama??? OK THEN...LOL. Obama is intentually trying to destroy America, so he and his socialist pals can rebuild it in their ideal of "Fair". Fair to that ilk means people who don't want to work get an equal share as those that do.

[Oldgringo]

I hate medicare and social security far more.

Really? How do your parents, grandparents, aunts and uncles who were forced to pay into those programs all their working lives feel about them?

Now that that's out of the way, We'd like to hear your proposal/s for replacement of SS and Medicare. We're especially interested in how you'd treat those who have only 20-30 years invested in the programs and where the money is coming from to reimburse those who are yet too young to receive any benefits.