Parking lot law

[Mexicanjoe]

Ok guys, here it is.... My employer has sent out an email which reiterates: no firearms on property, even for CHL holders.i don't have a CHL; however, I am a reserve officer in a neighboring county. My Sheriff requires his officers to carry their ID card, and firearm , even off duty. . My employer has parking that is open to the public, although we have security guards " patrolling" the property. Truthfully these guards couldnt catch a cold in a flu epidemic. Dilemma? Yes!! Like any LEO I have made enemies of sorts. I believe if my employer does not allow firearms on property( contrary to the parking lot law). Should they not bear some responsibility for employee safety to and from work , by disallowing a employee to lock his firearms in the trunk of his personal vehicle???. Give me your thoughts! Thanks guys!

[jimlongley]

So your employer is just going to ignore the law?

Even if you have to do it anonymously, I would find a way to blow the whistle on them.

52.061. Restriction on Prohibiting Employee Access to or Storage of Firearm or Ammunition.
A public or private employer may not prohibit an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition from transporting or storing a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area the employer provides for employees.
Sec. 52.062. EXCEPTIONS.
(a) Section 52.061 does not:
(1) authorize a person who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, or who lawfully possesses ammunition to possess a firearm or ammunition on any property where the possession of a firearm or ammunition is prohibited by state or federal law; or
(2) apply to:
(A) a vehicle owned or leased by a public or private employer and used by an employee in the course and scope of the employee ’s employment, unless the employee is required to transport or store a firearm in the official discharge of the employee ’s duties;
(B) a school district;
(C) an open-enrollment charter school, as defined by Section 5.001, Education Code;
(D) a private school, as defined by Section 22.081, Education Code;
(E) property owned or controlled by a person, other than the employer, that is subject to a valid, unexpired oil, gas, or other mineral lease that contains a provision prohibiting the possession of firearms on the property; or
(F) property owned or leased by a chemical manufacturer or oil and gas refiner with an air authorization under Chapter 382, Health and Safety Code, and on which the primary business conducted is the manufacture, use, storage, or transportation of hazardous, combustible, or explosive materials, except in regard to an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and who stores a firearm or ammunition the employee is authorized by law to possess in a locked, privately owned motor vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or otherparking area the employer provides for employees that is outside of a secured and restricted area:
(i) that contains the physical plant;
(ii) that is not open to the public; and
(iii) the ingress into which is constantly monitored by security personnel.
(b) Section 52.061 does not prohibit an employer from prohibiting an employee who holds a license to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, or who otherwise lawfully possesses a firearm, from possessing a firearm the employee is otherwise authorized by law to possess on the premises of the employer ’s business. In this subsection, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.
Sec. 411.203. Rights of Employers. This subchapter does not prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business. In this section, "premises" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code.

[ScottDLS]

As a Texas peace officer you have essentially a complete exemption from 46.02, 30.05, & 30.06 criminal statutes for carry. I guess your employer could decide to fire you for violating their parking lot ban, which is contrary to Texas law even for non-LEO. Most folks will tell you that the company can get around the parking lot law by firing you for another reason since Texas (like 48 other states) is an "at will" employment state. Personally I call bull on this. The law is clear, you can keep your firearm in the car and your employer can not use that as a cause of action to fire you. So if they make up something else.... that's arguably a "tort" or maybe an implied contract violation that you can sue for. It's just that (as Chas. has said) there is no explicit civil remedy in the "parking lot" law. Maybe you can get a civil lawyer to take it up or maybe not.

My position (which I have backed up with my behavior) is that I will carry a handgun in my car whenever I am in Texas, despite my company's (unlawful) rule that I may not have said gun in my car in our parking lot. What is the Greek.... Molon Labe? Come and get it!!!!! I don't think our rinky dink "observe and report" mall cops are gonna open my car

[KRM45]

I'm in the same boat as you. My full time employer is a city and I am a reserve officer in another city. I submitted a memo to the City Manager with a copy of my credentials and a signed "notice of outside employment" from my boss asing permission to deviate from the policy. I've had that in my desk drawer for the past 8 years.

As a peace officer they can not legally prevent you from having your weapon on the premisis. I think it makes them feel good to be asked though.

[C-dub]

I'm in the same boat as you. My full time employer is a city and I am a reserve officer in another city. I submitted a memo to the City Manager with a copy of my credentials and a signed "notice of outside employment" from my boss asing permission to deviate from the policy. I've had that in my desk drawer for the past 8 years.

As a peace officer they can not legally prevent you from having your weapon on the premisis. I think it makes them feel good to be asked though.

AFAIK my employer has never enforced their policy, but it is still in their policy that even LEOs cannot carry on the premises unless it is in the course of their duty. They also violated the parking lot law for over 2 years and then quietly changed the policy about a year ago.

[TexasCajun]

Contact the TSRA and/or NRA for guidance. I recall that after the parking lot bill went into effect, TSRA and NRA were soliciting copies of personnel policy that had not been updated to reflect the new legal requirements. They may be able to help in some way or at least advise you as to an appropriate course of action.

[winters]

The company I work is based out of NJ good luck in getting them to change.lol

[TexasCajun]

The company I work is based out of NJ good luck in getting them to change.lol

That doesn't matter since they are operating a facility in Texas. As such, they are subject to the laws of Texas whether they like it or not.

[winters]

The company I work is based out of NJ good luck in getting them to change.lol

That doesn't matter since they are operating a facility in Texas. As such, they are subject to the laws of Texas whether they like it or not.

I understand that but it doesn't mean that doesn't keep them from trying to stop you.

[TexasCajun]

The company I work is based out of NJ good luck in getting them to change.lol

That doesn't matter since they are operating a facility in Texas. As such, they are subject to the laws of Texas whether they like it or not.

I understand that but it doesn't mean that doesn't keep them from trying to stop you.

Only if you let them get away with it.

[C-dub]

The company I work is based out of NJ good luck in getting them to change.lol

That doesn't matter since they are operating a facility in Texas. As such, they are subject to the laws of Texas whether they like it or not.

I understand that but it doesn't mean that doesn't keep them from trying to stop you.

Get a copy of their policy that prohibits you from keeping your gun in your vehicle in the parking lot and get a hold of someone in the TSRA to find out who to send it to. Or you state congressman or senator. It may take a while, but it works. I know!

[winters]

I don't really care about getting it changed. Because of texas being at will they are going to say whatever they want if they want me fired.

[Shadow41]

I don't really care about getting it changed. Because of texas being at will they are going to say whatever they want if they want me fired.

100% correct.
If you're the #1 salesman for your company, they can simply say your sales weren't high enough for you market area and fire you. If you were 5 minutes late 2 months ago and it was the only time in ten years, they can fire you. If upper management doesn't like your opinion on something, they can fire you. Companies normally prefer that an employee gets 1 verbal warning, 1 written warning, and then is terminated for a 3rd offence, but that's usually for fighting unemployment claims. It's not however an absolute. They can make up what ever reason they want to for the official termination records as long as they can show a record of it, regardless of whether it's the real reason or not. I've seen it first hand at the company I've worked for for the last 25 yrs, and I'm in operations management.

[C-dub]

I don't really care about getting it changed. Because of texas being at will they are going to say whatever they want if they want me fired.

100% correct.
If you're the #1 salesman for your company, they can simply say your sales weren't high enough for you market area and fire you. If you were 5 minutes late 2 months ago and it was the only time in ten years, they can fire you. If upper management doesn't like your opinion on something, they can fire you. Companies normally prefer that an employee gets 1 verbal warning, 1 written warning, and then is terminated for a 3rd offence, but that's usually for fighting unemployment claims. It's not however an absolute. They can make up what ever reason they want to for the official termination records as long as they can show a record of it, regardless of whether it's the real reason or not. I've seen it first hand at the company I've worked for for the last 25 yrs, and I'm in operations management.

While this is correct or mostly correct, it is not the way most companies of moderate or lager size do things. They are often so worried about wrongful termination lawsuits and the EEOC that they spend an enormous amount of time documenting behavior and performance in order to terminate someone. Also often including the escalation of warning from oral, to written, to final warning before actual termination. Of course, there are always exceptions, but that also often depends on the infraction. I've seen it take up to a year or two to get rid of someone that was abusing the time clock and calling in sick at obvious times to give themselves 3-day weekends. And I've also seen someone gone within two hours.

[Jumping Frog]

I don't really care about getting it changed. Because of texas being at will they are going to say whatever they want if they want me fired.

100% correct.
If you're the #1 salesman for your company, they can simply say your sales weren't high enough for you market area and fire you. If you were 5 minutes late 2 months ago and it was the only time in ten years, they can fire you. If upper management doesn't like your opinion on something, they can fire you. Companies normally prefer that an employee gets 1 verbal warning, 1 written warning, and then is terminated for a 3rd offence, but that's usually for fighting unemployment claims. It's not however an absolute. They can make up what ever reason they want to for the official termination records as long as they can show a record of it, regardless of whether it's the real reason or not. I've seen it first hand at the company I've worked for for the last 25 yrs, and I'm in operations management.

While this is correct or mostly correct, it is not the way most companies of moderate or lager size do things. They are often so worried about wrongful termination lawsuits and the EEOC that they spend an enormous amount of time documenting behavior and performance in order to terminate someone. Also often including the escalation of warning from oral, to written, to final warning before actual termination. Of course, there are always exceptions, but that also often depends on the infraction. I've seen it take up to a year or two to get rid of someone that was abusing the time clock and calling in sick at obvious times to give themselves 3-day weekends. And I've also seen someone gone within two hours.

Do not overlook that the whole issue of "workplace violence" is such a hot button in the HR crowd that reports of an employee with a firearm are accompanied by the hue and cry that they must "do something".

As far as unemployment claims and wrongful termination lawsuits, I have personally sat through the meetings discussing employees where the litigation risks involved in terminating the employees were weighed against the litigation risks involved in keeping them. Sometimes an employer decides it simply isn't worth the risk to keep them even if there is a wrongful termination lawsuit.