Europe's Jews want guns

[Rex B]

From the PowerLine blog:

"Rabbi Menachem Margolin, director general of the Rabbinical Centre of Europe and the European Jewish Association, wrote to the interior ministries of all European countries, urging changes in gun laws that would make it easier for Europe’s Jews to arm themselves

Rabbi Menachem Margolin…writes: “We hereby ask that gun licensing laws are reviewed with immediate effect to allow designated people in the Jewish communities and institutions to own weapons for the essential protection of their communities, as well as receiving the necessary training to protect their members from potential terror attacks.”

Speaking to Newsweek, Rabbi Margolin added that he believes that “as many people within the Jewish community as possible” should carry weapons."

Full text here: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/powerlin ... dium=email" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Who better to appreciate the value of armed self-defense than a European Jew?

[baldeagle]

How ironic. American Jews are strong supporters of gun control.

[cheezit]

How ironic. American Jews are strong supporters of gun control.

I dont know how true that is.
Personal experience is quite different. Ive meet far more liberal Christian peoples in my life then jews.

[RoyGBiv]

How ironic. American Jews are strong supporters of gun control.

Not this one. And not my mother.

[ELB]

How ironic. American Jews are strong supporters of gun control.

I dont know how true that is.
Personal experience is quite different. Ive meet far more liberal Christian peoples in my life then jews.

There are no doubt more liberal Christian people than liberal Jews, in absolute numbers, but the majority of American Jews still support the Democratic Party -- nearly 80% voted for Barack Obama. It is not a perfect proxy for support of gun control, but it's pretty close. Most American Jews live in very "blue" population centers and have very "blue" politics.

Robert Avrech, self-described Emmy Award winning screenwriter, observant Jew, religious Zionist, conservative Republican, member of the NRA, often comments -- with great frustration -- on this. He had an epiphany (ahem! in a manner of speaking!) about individual ownership of guns when he and his wife got caught in the middle of the 1992 Los Angeles Riots. Check out his blog: http://www.seraphicpress.com/jew-without-a-gun-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If Rabbi Margolin wants guns for his people, he should move them to Red State America. It ain't gonna happen in Europe, and not even in Israel.

[rotor]

How ironic. American Jews are strong supporters of gun control.

I dont know how true that is.
Personal experience is quite different. Ive meet far more liberal Christian peoples in my life then jews.

Since the majority of Jews are east coast (mainly New York I would bet) they are going to be democrats, gun control supporters, and vote for Obama. Then there are those like me that have come to their senses and live in Texas, are strong believers in the constitution, self defense, and don't trust the government. One would think that a religion that was almost destroyed by a government once ( the Germans) would have learned but they haven't. The final thought is that the Jews in Europe are only a very small percent of the population right now but when the Jews are destroyed or gone then the radicals go after the Christians. The French have never been very supportive of the Jews even before the Muslim population grew.

[The Annoyed Man]

Robert Avrech, self-described Emmy Award winning screenwriter, observant Jew, religious Zionist, conservative Republican, member of the NRA, often comments -- with great frustration -- on this. He had an epiphany (ahem! in a manner of speaking!) about individual ownership of guns when he and his wife got caught in the middle of the 1992 Los Angeles Riots.

I read his original blog post not long after it was posted. Of course, I was there for the rioting, so his account struck home with me.

[mr1337]

Why should Jewish people get special treatment? Why aren't they pushing for gun rights for all Europeans?

[MechAg94]

Why should Jewish people get special treatment? Why aren't they pushing for gun rights for all Europeans?

If the pitch was made in those terms, it would be ignored by the liberal elistists in Europe and likely the media. When a bit of Antisemitism is applied, it might get more traction.

I really doubt anything will happen. I also doubt that having guns will do any good as I believe many European countries have laws such that self defense is nearly illegal.

[baldeagle]

Obviously not every Jewish person supports gun control, but, in the main, Jews do. Some of the biggest proponents of gun control are Jews; Michael Bloomberg, Richards Blumenthal, Gabriel Giffords, Diane Feinstein, Arlen Specter, Frank Lautenberg and Chuck Schumer, for example.

Polls, although sparse, consistently show strong Jewish support for gun control. NJDC Compares Toward Tradition’s Positions to American Jewish Public Opinion Data

88 percent of American Jews agree that there should be a nationwide ban on assault weapons (American Jewish Committee Exit Poll, July 1997). The "nation's largest Jewish organization reaffirms support for gun control measures" (Union of American Hebrew Congregations statement, 1/28/00).

88% support for anything is pretty much a consensus.

It's also frequently written about.
Jews and Jewish organizations lead the gun control campaign
Background checks make sense
Do Jewish "Gun Control" Advocates Fuel Anti-Semitism?
Gun Violence Prevention: Jewish Values

Frankly, given their awful history, I've never understood why Jews aren't passionately pro-gun. I realize they place high value on human life, but clearly some lives are more valued than others. It makes no sense at all to me, but I'm not a Jew, so I don't have the background to understand it more fully.

[RoyGBiv]

Obviously not every Jewish person supports gun control, but, in the main, Jews do. Some of the biggest proponents of gun control are Jews; Michael Bloomberg, Richards Blumenthal, Gabriel Giffords, Diane Feinstein, Arlen Specter, Frank Lautenberg and Chuck Schumer, for example.

Polls, although sparse, consistently show strong Jewish support for gun control. NJDC Compares Toward Tradition’s Positions to American Jewish Public Opinion Data

88 percent of American Jews agree that there should be a nationwide ban on assault weapons (American Jewish Committee Exit Poll, July 1997). The "nation's largest Jewish organization reaffirms support for gun control measures" (Union of American Hebrew Congregations statement, 1/28/00).

88% support for anything is pretty much a consensus.

Careful taking that web site as fact.
That D in their name stands for DEMOCRATS. And 1997 data is quite ancient given current events.
In fact, using 1997 data is "suspicious", IMO.

Frankly, given their awful history, I've never understood why Jews aren't passionately pro-gun. I realize they place high value on human life, but clearly some lives are more valued than others. It makes no sense at all to me, but I'm not a Jew, so I don't have the background to understand it more fully.

This puzzles me as well. I theorize that it's due to geography.
Most European Jews immigrated via Ellis island and remain geographically embedded in East Coast culture. .... Maybe??

My mother cannot discuss politics (she's an ex-NYer, registered "D" that's voted "R" the past dozen years) with her (largely Jewish) neighbors for fear of being ostracized. I shake my head and bite my tongue when her neighbors talk politics. I had some hope for them when they elected Allen West, but that was a one term improvement.

Recently, mom's been talking guns with the neighbors.... Apparently MANY are armed.... but the gun control attitude is quite prevalent... Mom can't get them to explain why they can have guns themselves but still want more gun control.... Willful/disassociative ignorance?

[zigzag]

American jews are high profile personalities in the NRA as well. And many are gun and ammo manufacturers by livelihood.

[BobCat]

Not this one either!

And if you think all or most Jews are pro-control / anti-gun, or are all liberals, have a look at David Horowitz's webzine: http://www.frontpagemag.com/

I don't want to irritate Charles by devolving into politics but it chaps me that people swallow the idea that Jews in general are anti-gun.

Try http://a-human-right.com/ - it it Oleg Volk's work. Also http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z2/volk-posters.htm

There are Jews and there are ghetto Jews - the following is all my opinion, not "objective reality".

When you and your people live among others, you don't ruffle feathers. In "the old country" standing up for yourself could bring a pogrom that would decimate your town - so you learned to live with a certain amount of indignity and pain. You lived in the ghetto because that was where "your kind" were allowed, and you tried not to give offense and bring it all down on yourself, your family, your neighbors.

After it hit the fan, and it was clear that trying to blend in and not give offense only postponed the inevitable crunch, you wised up or died (mostly).

The Jews left in Europe are ones who didn't wise up, or thought they were resilient enough to survive again. Lots of the Jews living in France have moved to Israel recently - twice as many in 2014 as in 2013. Handwriting on the wall.

The Jews on the east coast (by and large - sweeping generalizations like this are worthless) didn't fall far from the tree. They got to "the New Word" and didn't explore, they stayed in the cities and created unofficial ghettos.

But there are lots and lots of us who don't just mouth the words, "Never again!" - we mean it.

[cb1000rider]

Obviously not every Jewish person supports gun control, but, in the main, Jews do. Some of the biggest proponents of gun control are Jews; Michael Bloomberg, Richards Blumenthal, Gabriel Giffords, Diane Feinstein, Arlen Specter, Frank Lautenberg and Chuck Schumer, for example.

I think you guys are really thinking about it wrong. Largely what I see over and over on this forum is picking some demographic that doesn't have substantial majority support for 2nd amendment rights and then they get lumped in with what are honestly derogatory terms (for this forum) - typically "liberal" and "progressive".

And I don't have an issue if you're discussing how the vast majority of a particular demographic votes on 2nd amendment issues. But calling Jews "liberal" and then trying to lump them all into those derogatory terms that typically receive a verbal lashing on this forum... Well, all your doing is showing exactly how un-accepting of other people you are. I shake my head. You end up castigating those that DO support many of the same things that you do. And you don't have it right.

My experience with Jewish families -they're actually generally very conservative with traditional family values - this should speak to many of the conservatives on this forum. I'm not aware of any large anti-2nd amendment sentiment among my Jewish friends and I know that some do own firearms. I'm sure there are some anti-2nd Jews. And no, I don't know them all. I can tell you that this thread doesn't line up with what my experiences are.

I consider myself both a liberal and progressive. I don't consider either of those things to have anything to do with politics or political views. I mean it in the sense of "social liberal" - not the political social liberal, but that the government shouldn't baby-sit with the population does. Get your nose out of my business. IE - The government shouldn't regulate marriage, which is religious institution. Progressive meaning forward thinking and methodical or well planned. Gradual changes. Not for the sake of change, but for the sake of adapting and making things work better. Supporting social reforms like reforming disability. I'm a fiscal conservative. That means I believe in spending no more than we take it. That gets me lumped in as an abomination when I suggest that we pay more to clear a debt... Every time I hear the typical cat-calls, it bothers me.

I work in a very liberal place - not meaning with a bunch of Democrats, but that typical workplace rules don't apply. It encourages creativity and independent thinking. I've worked with real hipsters. I've also worked with other people that are socially liberal, but carry CHL every day and spend the majority of their discretionary income on firearm related stuff. They are, from my perspective, firearm nuts. Guys that start designing their new home with the dimensions of their walk-in safe. Many of you would be dismissive of them on sight.. We've also got hardcore political conservatives and life-long Republicans - they all discuss guns together...

You can cast 2nd amendment support as black and white by demographics, but you're stereotyping and doing it wrong. All you're doing is alienating people that otherwise support the same things that are important to you. We need all the support we can get. Try looking for things that make us the same - things that we all can get behind. It takes lots of people to move the big rocks, not just a small group of people that all want to look and act the same.