ISIS Mall Attack - How can we prepare?

[Chris Smith]

We lived in siege-conditions in South Africa for decades, and life just has to go on.

Weigh the risk, carry everywhere you can (and carry alternate weapons when you can't). Know your exits, note cover and concealment, protect your family first, protect yourself and others if you can, die like a Viking if you have to.

Nice summation. Can I add one piece of advice?

Wear some decent footwear.

Something that's not going to fall off and will let you dash through terrain that is no longer flat and smooth and obstacle free.

Every time I see pictures of some mass ugly event, there are shoes and flipflops laying everywhere, and people (mostly dead in the pics) barefoot or sock-footed. It doesn't matter whether it is a terrorist attack or a big fire or what, people where comfy-slob outfits with sandals or crocs or some such, and then end up running through broken glass and rubble. Or not running once they carve up their feet. /endrant.

That's good advice. To paraphrase an old saying, for want of a shoe the battle was lost.

[TomsTXCHL]

That's good advice. To paraphrase an old saying, for want of a shoe the battle was lost.

I just spent three and a half hours the other night watching Troy the Director's Extended Edition, a swords-and-sandals epic, and am embarrassed to admit I don't recall what kind of footwear the antagonists wore. They did manage to run and jump and climb and kill each other with great efficiency though...

It was a pretty good movie if you can stand to sit for that long.

[ripnbst]

No joke, after watching the HBO special "Terror at the mall" on the Kenyan mall attack I started carrying my AR in my vehicle. These stupid responders waited outside for 3 HOURS devising a plan on how to enter the mall while they could HEAR GUNFIRE going on inside. If you cant tell yet I am livid at the lack of a sense of urgency demonstrated by the Kenyan forces to get in that mall. A small group of cops and CCW's went in after tiring of waiting for an official response.

Now it seems the US has at least pulled it's head out of it's rear in that regard. It is now SOP that once a second unit gets on scene you go in and take your chances, police don't wait for hours for SWAT to arrive while the unarmed innocents inside are being massacred.

I digress, seriously watching that special was infuriating but I highly recommend you watch it anyway. Preferably with your wife if she's one of those "Why do you always carry?" but still supportive types. At the end of it, if she still has to ask you why you carry then she cant be helped. This documentary is also high on my list for recommended viewing for my anti-gun friends.

So, my AR is in my car now, yes. However, I live near the Woodlands and the Woodlands Mall is huge. It would also be a prime target for an attack like this because it is such an affluent area and relatively close to the border. I would not advise anyone to not go to the mall if they typically do. If we alter our way of life (in a major way, I never used to carry my AR in my trunk but I don't count that as the same thing) because we are afraid of terrorists then they have won. If your local mall is anything like mine then you could be a good 2-5 minutes from your vehicle and that's assuming you were in a dead run to your vehicle, not accounting for the hoards of people all trying to exit with you which would undoubtedly add time. Then you are another 3 or so + minutes back to your last location.

Do you go to the mall with your wife and kids?(YEP) Can they all run as fast as you can?(NOPE, kids are 7 mos and 2 yrs) Do you leave them there as you sprint to fetch the big boy toys in your vehicle?(NO) My answers are in parenthesis. This is why I refuse to carry a single stack firearm in all but the rarest instances despite it's added concealability. My carry gun of choice is an M&P 9c with a mag capacity of 12+1 in the tube. Plus the spare mag in my pocket yields 25 rounds on my person. My personal goal would be to eliminate a threat and take their weapon(s). They've brought their long gun to me, why would I run to my car to get mine? I'd probably also pray that they are carrying a 9mm and scavenge their pistol and ammo for myself and then arm my wife. She can shoot well enough to serve as suppressing fire if nothing else.

A group of active shooters in an american mall is a horrific thing to contemplate but I'd carry a third mag for my 9c before thinking about trying to carry a folder in a backpack. Stay vigilant my friends. I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

[TomsTXCHL]

I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

Still, unless you actually work in a mall, the chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are incredibly small.

I have not added this to the list of things I worry about.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

Still, unless you actually work in a mall, the chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are incredibly small.

I have not added this to the list of things I worry about.

The chance of any particular individual having to use their self-defense handgun is very low. Nevertheless, we train, practice, and carry handguns on the off chance we are among the statistically improbable intended victims.

I don't fear anything, but I'm prepared for everything.
Chas.

[LSUTiger]

Good videos and discussion of Mall Terrorist attacks


Terror At the Mall BBC documentary 2013

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Analysis from an ex military youtuber-lessons learned

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Surving the LE Response

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[ripnbst]

In case no one knows how that Kenyan mall attack ended the response was dismal on every level.

First: Official response takes several hours to put a plan together while people inside are still actively being killed, some people were completely unharmed until about 3 hours into the attack when they were found. Local police and CCW holders say enough of this madness and go in "unofficially" after about two hours but have to pull back after some casualties but they did save some people.
Then: Official response finally goes in and basically shoots anything that moves, except the terrorists. They accidentally shoot and kill several(3-5 possibly a little more) cops and civilians and a lose a few of their own to the terrorists in the process.
Finally: The tactical team that got put to shame by the terrorists say its too dangerous to go back in, so they just bomb/mortar the entire mall to make sure anyone still inside is surely dead.

[ripnbst]

I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

Still, unless you actually work in a mall, the chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are incredibly small.

I have not added this to the list of things I worry about.

Not if you think about narrowing the odds to those of reality. When would a terror strike on a mall likely happen? If they have even half a brain it would be on the weekend, when it is busiest. If you have highschool aged children, or or a wife who goes to the mall regularly, or you just happen to go on a weekend, you have now reduced the denominator from 365 days down to 104 days. What are you going to tell your kids? "Sorry, from now on you can only go to the mall monday through thursday? I admit, malls are busy friday nights too but I'm not splitting the odds down to hours.

And as was mentioned before, the odds that anyone anywhere in the US needs to draw their CCW is less than that of a car accident. Yet here we are on a forum with discussion focused around CCW. At least I'm not advocating the backpack carry of a folding rifle. Not that there is anything wrong with that if you feel compelled to do it, to each their own.

[RoyGBiv]

Here's some thoughts on active shooter response that I found worth reading.

Single Officer Response in Active Shooter Events

Although many trainers feel that a single officer response to an active-shooter incident is never appropriate due to officer safety considerations, I have to strongly disagree.

Of course, "active shooter" is not the same as "organized team of terrorists".
Still, worth a read. IMO.

[Cedar Park Dad]

I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

Still, unless you actually work in a mall, the chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are incredibly small.

I have not added this to the list of things I worry about.

Not if you think about narrowing the odds to those of reality. When would a terror strike on a mall likely happen? If they have even half a brain it would be on the weekend, when it is busiest. If you have highschool aged children, or or a wife who goes to the mall regularly, or you just happen to go on a weekend, you have now reduced the denominator from 365 days down to 104 days. What are you going to tell your kids? "Sorry, from now on you can only go to the mall monday through thursday? I admit, malls are busy friday nights too but I'm not splitting the odds down to hours.

And as was mentioned before, the odds that anyone anywhere in the US needs to draw their CCW is less than that of a car accident. Yet here we are on a forum with discussion focused around CCW. At least I'm not advocating the backpack carry of a folding rifle. Not that there is anything wrong with that if you feel compelled to do it, to each their own.

The flipside argument to that is - how many malls have been attacked to date by terrorists?
Now divide that number by number of malls in the world.

[Excaliber]

I fear preparing for something like this is not as "fanatical" as some anti's would like to make you think.

Still, unless you actually work in a mall, the chances of being in the wrong place at the wrong time are incredibly small.

I have not added this to the list of things I worry about.

Not if you think about narrowing the odds to those of reality. When would a terror strike on a mall likely happen? If they have even half a brain it would be on the weekend, when it is busiest. If you have highschool aged children, or or a wife who goes to the mall regularly, or you just happen to go on a weekend, you have now reduced the denominator from 365 days down to 104 days. What are you going to tell your kids? "Sorry, from now on you can only go to the mall monday through thursday? I admit, malls are busy friday nights too but I'm not splitting the odds down to hours.

And as was mentioned before, the odds that anyone anywhere in the US needs to draw their CCW is less than that of a car accident. Yet here we are on a forum with discussion focused around CCW. At least I'm not advocating the backpack carry of a folding rifle. Not that there is anything wrong with that if you feel compelled to do it, to each their own.

The flipside argument to that is - how many malls have been attacked to date by terrorists?
Now divide that number by number of malls in the world.

Keep in mind that statistical risk is theoretical and is always a small fraction.

Victimization is very real and is always either zero or one hundred percent.

[TomsTXCHL]

Perhaps we can agree that we need to take "fear" out of these discussions.

If we walk-around fearful of a terrorist attack, the terrorists have already won.

[simianangel]

Perhaps we can agree that we need to take "fear" out of these discussions.

If we walk-around fearful of a terrorist attack, the terrorists have already won.

They won when the bed wetters prohibited nail clippers in carry-on bags.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Perhaps we can agree that we need to take "fear" out of these discussions.

If we walk-around fearful of a terrorist attack, the terrorists have already won.

They won when the bed wetters prohibited nail clippers in carry-on bags.

"Bet wetters?" Knock it off.

Chas.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Perhaps we can agree that we need to take "fear" out of these discussions.

If we walk-around fearful of a terrorist attack, the terrorists have already won.

I'm fearful of what that next double cheeseburger will do to my belt. The cheese has already won!