obamacare upheld

[cbunt1]

Someone mentioned they were concerned about being told what car to buy. You already are, and have been for years. It's called the gas guzzler tax for lack of the real name and taxes high consumption vehicles. If you can afford that Ferrari, you can afford the tax, right? Really, nothing new. And again, if anyone here really wants to be helpful in November, move to Florida. It looks like they can use the Republican votes.

What!? A gas-guzzler tax does not affect me if choose NOT TO BUY a gas-guzzler. A luxury tax DOES NOT affect me if I choose not to buy a Ferrari. This new law now taxes me if I choose NOT TO participate in it. Liberty is the issue here.

Don't miss the forest looking at the trees. Liberty (or encroachment thereof) cuts both ways. Being taxed (as a behavior modifyer) for making an affirmative choice is as detrimental to liberty and freedom as being taxed for making a choice NOT to engage in certain behavior....whether you prefer to engage in the behavior that is punished with a tax (drinking, smoking, driving a fast car, etc.) or prefer to NOT engage in the regressively taxed behavior (NOT buying health insurance, etc.)

This is the CORE of the old parable of "First the came for the Jews, but I didn't worry because I was a Gentile, then they came for the smokers, but I didn't worry because I don't smoke, then they came for the gun owners, but I didn't worry because I didn't own a gun, then the came for me, and there was no one left to stand up for me..."

[hi-power]

Someone mentioned they were concerned about being told what car to buy. You already are, and have been for years. It's called the gas guzzler tax for lack of the real name and taxes high consumption vehicles. If you can afford that Ferrari, you can afford the tax, right? Really, nothing new. And again, if anyone here really wants to be helpful in November, move to Florida. It looks like they can use the Republican votes.

What!? A gas-guzzler tax does not affect me if choose NOT TO BUY a gas-guzzler. A luxury tax DOES NOT affect me if I choose not to buy a Ferrari. This new law now taxes me if I choose NOT TO participate in it. Liberty is the issue here.

Don't miss the forest looking at the trees. Liberty (or encroachment thereof) cuts both ways. Being taxed (as a behavior modifyer) for making an affirmative choice is as detrimental to liberty and freedom as being taxed for making a choice NOT to engage in certain behavior....whether you prefer to engage in the behavior that is punished with a tax (drinking, smoking, driving a fast car, etc.) or prefer to NOT engage in the regressively taxed behavior (NOT buying health insurance, etc.)

This is the CORE of the old parable of "First the came for the Jews, but I didn't worry because I was a Gentile, then they came for the smokers, but I didn't worry because I don't smoke, then they came for the gun owners, but I didn't worry because I didn't own a gun, then the came for me, and there was no one left to stand up for me..."

At the very least those aforementioned tax hikes were approved in Congress, not invented by the Supreme Court and foisted upon us.

[gdanaher]

Replace and Repeal is the ONLY answer at this point, forget about what judge decided what...that is done and over with, we have a job to do.

So, only a foolish man would look at our existing system of health delivery and smile at its success. So a Republican Congress repeals the bill. They have to replace it with something, or their replacements are going to have to do something about health care on a national basis. What would be on your wish list for federal or state legislation that would serve to repair, clean up and adjust the traditional system of care delivery?

[chasfm11]

I have always contributed (monetarily) to the Republican Candidate in Presidential elections.

But this time, I will give until it HURTS! I urge you to do the same.

Replace and Repeal is the ONLY answer at this point, forget about what judge decided what...that is done and over with, we have a job to do. GET OBAMA OUT OF OFFICE, or America will suffer a set back from which it might never recover.

Unfortunately, I have done the same thing in the past and we have to show for it a boat load of Rinos who walk, talk and act like Democrats. Are you willing to bet your life savings that Republicans who get elected to help repeal Obamacare will do so? I'm not.

The polls are showing Obama in the lead in several of the key swing States. Even if he is beaten badly, the chances of reversing the majority in the Senate are very slim at best. Unless and until the Senate is changed, repeal of Obamacare through the legislative process is a pipe dream.

They are already talking about a massive grab of our 401Ks to fund the Social Security system problem that noone except a few Republicans wants to talk about. The ruling today that they can tax anything makes the 401K "tax" almost inevitable. For the record, SCOTUS didn't invent the tax capability, they merely affirmed that Congress has it. I fear SS will be the next drum beat on the Hill and Obamacare will be a distant memory in their minds. Somebody please show me a shred of evidence that says I'm wrong. I would cherish it.

[cbunt1]

Someone mentioned they were concerned about being told what car to buy. You already are, and have been for years. It's called the gas guzzler tax for lack of the real name and taxes high consumption vehicles. If you can afford that Ferrari, you can afford the tax, right? Really, nothing new. And again, if anyone here really wants to be helpful in November, move to Florida. It looks like they can use the Republican votes.

What!? A gas-guzzler tax does not affect me if choose NOT TO BUY a gas-guzzler. A luxury tax DOES NOT affect me if I choose not to buy a Ferrari. This new law now taxes me if I choose NOT TO participate in it. Liberty is the issue here.

Don't miss the forest looking at the trees. Liberty (or encroachment thereof) cuts both ways. Being taxed (as a behavior modifyer) for making an affirmative choice is as detrimental to liberty and freedom as being taxed for making a choice NOT to engage in certain behavior....whether you prefer to engage in the behavior that is punished with a tax (drinking, smoking, driving a fast car, etc.) or prefer to NOT engage in the regressively taxed behavior (NOT buying health insurance, etc.)

This is the CORE of the old parable of "First the came for the Jews, but I didn't worry because I was a Gentile, then they came for the smokers, but I didn't worry because I don't smoke, then they came for the gun owners, but I didn't worry because I didn't own a gun, then the came for me, and there was no one left to stand up for me..."

At the very least those aforementioned tax hikes were approved in Congress, not invented by the Supreme Court and foisted upon us.

Exactly!

Although, to be completely fair, should it come as any surprise to anyone paying attention that it's been ruled a TAX? After all, it was clearly in the legislation that the Internal Revenue Service would be responsible for collecting the fines for failure to secure adequate health insurance.

This, by definition, makes it a TAX, since the sole purpose of the Internal Revenue Service is the collection (not levy) of TAXES...

So, while we've clearly been LIED to by our alleged leaders, we allowed the wool to be pulled over our eyes when they said it wasn't a tax...it was clear that the IRS would be responsible for the collection of the "fine".....

[mamabearCali]

Well if a business did what the president and the congress did in it's passage then defense of the bill they would be thrown in jail for fraud. It is similar to calling person to buy a milking jersey cow paying for it and showing up at the farmers market and seeing a wether goat in it's place.

[powerboatr]

"Although, to be completely fair, should it come as any surprise to anyone paying attention that it's been ruled a TAX? After all, it was clearly in the legislation that the Internal Revenue Service would be responsible for collecting the fines for failure to secure adequate health insurance.

This, by definition, makes it a TAX, since the sole purpose of the Internal Revenue Service is the collection (not levy) of TAXES...

So, while we've clearly been LIED to by our alleged leaders, we allowed the wool to be pulled over our eyes when they said it wasn't a tax...it was clear that the IRS would be responsible for the collection of the "fine"....."


except the law has no teeth. The fine is not punishable if you dont pay it
there is no lien on your property or income. the fine does not carry over or add on the previous years fine, there is no added interest to the principle if you dont pay it.
so its an unenforceable tax.

i have pretty good health insurance as of TODAY, its tricare and its not FREE and it is a PITA but it works
even though i was promised lifetime health insurance for my service.....
bad thing is at 65 its medicare or tricare for life (same same)


but todays best news is
my folks are 70 years old, so I am going over to their house and let them know i am applying for a position on the death panels and they should get packing

sort of remind me of the twilight zone episode where burgess meridith was deemed "obsolete" because he was a librarian and the "state" deemed no one needed to read books as the "state" would let you know everything you needed to know

my o my how close we are right now

[AEA]

I am feeling that this is only the tip of the iceberg.......
They are giddy about winning this victory as it will be a huge cash cow (for healthcare) that they will ROB (just like Social Security) to fund their other hidden policies (Save the Planet). They are EXPERTS at juggling numbers to be in their favor (to the fools among us).

[G26ster]

Here's my idea. Let's have National Health Care for All!! Yep, let's have each individual contribute a TAX to the gov't, and in turn the gov't supplies us all with equal health care. No exceptions to the tax, and everyone pays. That means the 47% that pay no Federal Tax now have to start paying, in addition to the new medical insurance tax. For those below the poverty line, Medicaid applies. That means no more union luxury medical packages, and all union and gov't workers, including congress, have to contribute the same as us non union, non gov't employed peons. No waivers, no exemptions. Yeah, I'll be that would go over well with the Democrats in congress. It would be Wisconsin all over again X 10.

[BillT]

To coin and old phrase...."America, love it or leave it". Today, as always, I am a proud American. For those of you so upset, there are a number of countries that would be more than happy to consider your immigration application. Americans are the model for the world, I've seen this with my own eyes as I have lived in and traveled extensively around the world for almost 40 years. In my humble opinion, there is no better place that shows democracy at work better than my country.
Just out of curiosity, is there anyone on this forum that wants health insurance but cannot get it at a price they can afford? Anyone have a chronic and severe health condition for which they are willing to forgo health care with potentially fatal consequences or worse yet your own child in that situation? I see a lot of crying and complaining, but alternative solutions to a very real problem facing millions of Americans is conspicuously absent from these post as well as the Republican leadership. If Republicans plan to run on a platform of repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act, then they better come up with an alternative solution to the problem. Otherwise the majority of Americans will vote to keep them out of office. For the record, I work for a small business. I pay dearly for my health insurance. I feel very fortunate in life and would be willing to contribute a little more of my disposable income for the benefit of those less fortunate to help solve this humanitarian issue. I'm guessing I'm in a very small minority in this forum, but not in the USA.

[Slowplay]

Although, to be completely fair, should it come as any surprise to anyone paying attention that it's been ruled a TAX? After all, it was clearly in the legislation that the Internal Revenue Service would be responsible for collecting the fines for failure to secure adequate health insurance.

This, by definition, makes it a TAX, since the sole purpose of the Internal Revenue Service is the collection (not levy) of TAXES...

So, while we've clearly been LIED to by our alleged leaders, we allowed the wool to be pulled over our eyes when they said it wasn't a tax...it was clear that the IRS would be responsible for the collection of the "fine".....

The PENALTY was never refered to as a tax by congress. The IRS imposes and collects penalties all the time (that ARE NOT by definition taxes).

The penalties are a punishment for failure to comply with something that is able to be upheld as legal (such as a direct income tax, allowed by the 16th Amendment - you don't pay your income taxes, penalties can/will be imposed).

The penalty was deemed a "tax" by the majority to effectively uphold the individual mandate, but the penalty is not subject to the Anti-Injunction Act (that prevents a suit against a tax until it is collected), since congress never refered to the penalty as a tax.

[grevengrevs]

I just hate how my bro-in-law thinks this is another reason why he won't have to work. As he says "it's free bro!"

[Katygunnut]

To coin and old phrase...."America, love it or leave it". Today, as always, I am a proud American. For those of you so upset, there are a number of countries that would be more than happy to consider your immigration application. Americans are the model for the world, I've seen this with my own eyes as I have lived in and traveled extensively around the world for almost 40 years. In my humble opinion, there is no better place that shows democracy at work better than my country.
Just out of curiosity, is there anyone on this forum that wants health insurance but cannot get it at a price they can afford? Anyone have a chronic and severe health condition for which they are willing to forgo health care with potentially fatal consequences or worse yet your own child in that situation? I see a lot of crying and complaining, but alternative solutions to a very real problem facing millions of Americans is conspicuously absent from these post as well as the Republican leadership. If Republicans plan to run on a platform of repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act, then they better come up with an alternative solution to the problem. Otherwise the majority of Americans will vote to keep them out of office. For the record, I work for a small business. I pay dearly for my health insurance. I feel very fortunate in life and would be willing to contribute a little more of my disposable income for the benefit of those less fortunate to help solve this humanitarian issue. I'm guessing I'm in a very small minority in this forum, but not in the USA.

This is a great idea! Texas as a whole should "Leave it"! Secession is the answer. If you don't like that direction, then you are welcome to leave Texas.

And here I thought you and I disagreed.

The USA is dead. Long live the Republic of Texas!

[mamabearCali]

To coin and old phrase...."America, love it or leave it". Today, as always, I am a proud American. For those of you so upset, there are a number of countries that would be more than happy to consider your immigration application. Americans are the model for the world, I've seen this with my own eyes as I have lived in and traveled extensively around the world for almost 40 years. In my humble opinion, there is no better place that shows democracy at work better than my country.
Just out of curiosity, is there anyone on this forum that wants health insurance but cannot get it at a price they can afford? Anyone have a chronic and severe health condition for which they are willing to forgo health care with potentially fatal consequences or worse yet your own child in that situation? I see a lot of crying and complaining, but alternative solutions to a very real problem facing millions of Americans is conspicuously absent from these post as well as the Republican leadership. If Republicans plan to run on a platform of repealing the Affordable Healthcare Act, then they better come up with an alternative solution to the problem. Otherwise the majority of Americans will vote to keep them out of office. For the record, I work for a small business. I pay dearly for my health insurance. I feel very fortunate in life and would be willing to contribute a little more of my disposable income for the benefit of those less fortunate to help solve this humanitarian issue. I'm guessing I'm in a very small minority in this forum, but not in the USA.

Know what--if you liked socialized healthcare so much there were many countries you could have moved to. Our system was not perfect by a long shot, however, all those lovely countries with socialized healthcare have a booming private care system because of the short fallings of the state care. If that was not enough often when they could not get treatment there they came here. I liked my America the way it was when I was born--not that long ago (1980).

[mamabearCali]

This is a great idea! Texas as a whole should "Leave it"! Secession is the answer. If you don't like that direction, then you are welcome to leave Texas.

And here I thought you and I disagreed.

The USA is dead. Long live the Republic of Texas!

Amen....if it gets any worse we just may make that move.