6 Year Old Girl Groped By TSA

[WildBill]

Whatever happened to teaching your child to scream "No!" and run away if an adult who is not their parent or doctor tries to touch them? I'd pay money to see a child do that to a TSA officer.

I am sure you would pay your price of admission. I don't think that applies if your mother is standing next to you.

[Oldgringo]

Whatever happened to teaching your child to scream "No!" and run away if an adult tries to touch them inappropriately? I'd pay money to see a child do that to a TSA officer.

That would be so cute...right up until the ticket agent was asked for a ticket refund on the unboarded flight.

[jmra]

First I will apologize for lumping you into the Brady bunch as it is counterproductive to civil discussion and my wife said I need to play nice.

I believe that whoever included "groped" in the YouTube title did it to intentionally incite an emotional response by suggesting that the girl had been somehow violated. It is this tactic that I was comparing to the tactics used by the Brady Bunch.

Do I like the pat downs? No. However, by purchase of the plane tickets, the parents of this child consented to this behavior before they ever arrived at the airport.

Would I like to see changes? You bet! But I would like to see those changes made without resorting to the methods used by the person who posted the video on YouTube - with a misleading title and what I consider the intential use of a scare tactic to incite a virtual mob.

I guess I find the Brady Bunch remark more amusing in this context than insulting; especially since you've explained the basis for the remark and I don't deny that the term "groped" has the connotation you say it does. Like I said, I considered not using it for that reason, but ultimately decided the term is not entirely without merit when applied to a search conducted in this manner on a six year old child. The distinction you're making is unlikely to be understood by a six year old, or a four year old.

I'm not even arguing against pat downs, if they make sense, but this particular search is obviously pointless. No one can credibly contend that this little girl is a security threat. What's at work here is left-wing ideology, not security. Ascribing the best possible motives to the TSA the search is purely intended to serve the political purpose of demonstrating that everyone is considered to be an equal security threat, and that is both stupid and counterproductive. But I'm not inclined to ascribe the best motives. I think that at the highest level the implementation of this search regime is also a deliberate attempt at conditioning. The evidence for this is circumstantial, but as they keep expanding these searches to other venues and expressing their intention to expand them ever further, it's difficult for me to believe that conditioning isn't one of the motives.

As I address in another comment, I don't accept your concept of consent. I may be compelled to fly for any number of reasons. By your concept of consent, if the government said it feared terrorist attacks on grocery stores and required people entering them to accept random searches, I'd be giving my consent by purchasing food, since I could order it from Amazon, or eat at Taco Bell, or grow my own, if I don't want to be frisked. The big problem with this concept is that the logic that justifies these searches can be extended to justify searching just about anyone, anyplace, and anytime. The Constitution, by contrast, limits searches based on the concept of probable cause. Airports have escaped this standard with what I consider to be a bogus exception, but now that they're conducting these searches in train stations, it should be obvious that the Fourth Amendment is under attack.

Finally, as I said before, I don't know that I can consider the terminology a "scare tactic" even if I concede it is inaccurate or inflammatory. I can handle a pat down even if I don't like it but I'd be afraid to fly if I had my six year old child with me. I'm afraid to fly with my wife. My wife is a very private person. She doesn't even like being examined by the doctor, in private. I can easily conceive of circumstances that might cause her to react to being frisked in a way that forces me to her defense. Think about it --stressful circumstances, insensitive remarks by TSA personnel (not exactly unknown), vigorous public pat down that she finds humiliating, ensuing verbal exchange, escalation, and my intervention on behalf of my life's partner. If we had a six year old child or grandchild with us that was subjected to a search like this and started crying or screaming for mommy I can predict that my wife's reaction is unlikely to be calm, and hence, I would probably find myself quickly in trouble.

Maybe nothing would happen, my wife might be in the best possible mood, and the TSA personnel might be respectful and professional. However, how people react to things like this can be unpredictable and the consequences of the wrong reaction could be life altering, so yeah, I am scared to fly with small children or my wife, and I intend to stay away from air travel unless I have no other choice.

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

I guess the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

[stevie_d_64]

I see no consistancy in the application of TSA procedures at any two airports in this country...

I do not believe anyone here with any sense would oppose the intent of the effort by this agency, what we have here is the fact that the application/implementation is extremely inconsistant and extremely flawed...No commonsense is apparent anywhere in the agency, and until the governemnt gets over the fear factor of racial and religious profiling, nothing will improve, if improvement is the only thing right now we need to get a grip on...

6 year olds and grandmothers in wheelchairs will still be a primary subject of scrutiny to prove how fair our application of these intermittant procedures are applied...

I say this with absolute respect for the job our friend here has done by working for this agency and posts here often to clarify mine and many others thoughts on the issue as a whole...

We almost know what the solution is, but there is no one in our government with the courage to pull that trigger...Pardon the pun...

[RoyGBiv]

The girl in the video was not assaulted...
If she had any worries, they could EASILY be handled by the tiniest bit of effective parenting.
If the parents had issues, they should keep them to themselves and not involve/overly concern their 6yo.
Airport screening is not a "surprise". Quit acting like it is.

No, I don't like it, but when I'm standing in the security line at the airport there is NOTHING I can do about it right there. The airport is not the right venue to change this bad policy. Any notion or behavior to the contrary at the airport shows a lack of maturity and I'll not have any sympathy for you. Call your Congressman, quit whining at the TSA agent, quit slowing down the line, I have a flight to catch.

I've opted for the pat-down recently. Just because I wanted to know for myself. I didn't like it. It wasn't the agent's fault. I certainly wasn't assaulted or anything close. http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=44053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh... and... the "testing for drugs" thing... After the agent does the pat-down, they run their gloves (new gloves are used for each pat-down) through the explosive residue detector. The parents didn't understand what was being checked.

[jmra]

The girl in the video was not assaulted...
If she had any worries, they could EASILY be handled by the tiniest bit of effective parenting.
If the parents had issues, they should keep them to themselves and not involve/overly concern their 6yo.
Airport screening is not a "surprise". Quit acting like it is.

No, I don't like it, but when I'm standing in the security line at the airport there is NOTHING I can do about it right there. The airport is not the right venue to change this bad policy. Any notion or behavior to the contrary at the airport shows a lack of maturity and I'll not have any sympathy for you. Call your Congressman, quit whining at the TSA agent, quit slowing down the line, I have a flight to catch.

I've opted for the pat-down recently. Just because I wanted to know for myself. I didn't like it. It wasn't the agent's fault. I certainly wasn't assaulted or anything close. http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=44053" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Oh... and... the "testing for drugs" thing... After the agent does the pat-down, they run their gloves (new gloves are used for each pat-down) through the explosive residue detector. The parents didn't understand what was being checked.

[VMI77]

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

No, I don't. That's like saying if a thug gets the drop on me and is pointing a gun at my chest demanding my wallet, I agree with his concept of employment. What I accept is the practical reality that the government has the power to force me to do whatever it wants, but that doesn't mean I agree that they have the right to do so. I haven't flown since 9/11 and have no plans to do so, but circumstances may compel me to fly someday. If I do, I will have no choice but to submit: that's not consent, any more than handing my wallet to a gunman is consent to be robbed.

The federal government isn't going to suddenly stop violating the Constitution. It is going to keep expanding its power incrementally until the Bill of Rights is completely eviscerated. It's obvious to me at this point that most Americans don't care about the Constitution or the Bill of Rights and are willing to sacrifice their liberty to the twin illusions of safety and comfort. There may be a point when many of those people come to regret that sacrifice but by that time it will already be too late. I don't expect anything I say or do to change the path we're on. In the meantime I will do as I have always done and comply with the law even when I disagree with it.

[VMI77]

until the governemnt gets over the fear factor of racial and religious profiling, nothing will improve, if improvement is the only thing right now we need to get a grip on...

I don't believe there is any "fear" of it. The policy is the product of collectivist ideology. There is no desire to change it because TSA serves a host of political interests that are at least equal to the interest of security. That's why they were subjecting flight crews to the same screening before the pilots kicked up enough fuss to stop it, and why they disgracefully screen our troops on their way home from combat in Afghanistan.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am bothered not by this particular incident but by the greater issue. Forfeiture of our rights due to fear and ignorance. The terrorists are are winning as we give the government the right to listen in on our calls, search us without just cause and control our speech. This is no different than the anti gun crowd using fear to outlaw our firearms.

[ScottDLS]

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

I guess the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

I read the contract of carriage for all the major carriers and none of them require you to consent to a search. Only American says you may be denied boarding if you refuse complete the TSA security procedures.

[jmra]

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

I guess the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

I read the contract of carriage for all the major carriers and none of them require you to consent to a search. Only American says you may be denied boarding if you refuse complete the TSA security procedures.

It's on the actual tickets. Wife is flying later this month and it is clearly stated in the package she received.

[jmra]

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

I guess the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

I read the contract of carriage for all the major carriers and none of them require you to consent to a search. Only American says you may be denied boarding if you refuse complete the TSA security procedures.

It's on the actual tickets. Wife is flying later this month and it is clearly stated in the package she received.

This is from Delta Ts&Cs

"permit search of person or property for explosives, weapons, dangerous materials, or other prohibited items."

[handog]

VMI77 touched on what is most disturbing in all of this. “everyone is considered to be an equal security threat” Everyone is a terrorist, even six year old girls until proven otherwise.
Soon we will have to accept certain terms and conditions to renew our drivers license including consent to random traffic stops for a pat down. All in the name of Homeland security.

[WildBill]

VMI77 touched on what is most disturbing in all of this. “everyone is considered to be an equal security threat”

This is a failure of policy at the highest level.

[ScottDLS]

You accept my concept of consent if you buy an airline ticket because it is part of the terms and conditions you legally agree to by purchasing the ticket - read the fine print.

I guess the rest we will have to agree to disagree.

I read the contract of carriage for all the major carriers and none of them require you to consent to a search. Only American says you may be denied boarding if you refuse complete the TSA security procedures.

It's on the actual tickets. Wife is flying later this month and it is clearly stated in the package she received.

This is from Delta Ts&Cs

"permit search of person or property for explosives, weapons, dangerous materials, or other prohibited items."

You're right, I missed that. Technically it's not a consent to search, just notification that you may be denied boarding if you refuse.

My problem with the TSA searches is that once you start them...according to them, you cannot back out. So if you don't like the direction its going (i.e. groping)...you can't end it...so they say. The one guy who did back out when they were going to touch his "junk" never had anything happen.