Why is OC not allowed in Texas?

[Fangs]

Wow, yall are giving this guy a hard time.

Search for "OC" or "open carry" and you'll see why everyone is a little tired of this topic.

A small group of people basically tried to ram it down the legislators' throats recently, with an obvious outcome. (Bad taste left behind)

Before that it's my understanding that during the Reconstruction ban on open carry was put in place to disarm the people and as a selectively enforced racial thing.

Hope some of this helps.

[cwohardy]

Wow, yall are giving this guy a hard time.

Search for "OC" or "open carry" and you'll see why everyone is a little tired of this topic.

A small group of people basically tried to ram it down the legislators' throats recently, with an obvious outcome. (Bad taste left behind)

Before that it's my understanding that during the Reconstruction ban on open carry was put in place to disarm the people and as a selectively enforced racial thing.

Hope some of this helps.

Fangs, this does help and I do totally understand the historical perspective from the race issuse. I just find it hard to believe that after all I had heard and been taught in school about Texas, I would get here and you couldn't OC. Does anyone not from Texas but from an open carry state understand my viewpoint?

[ELB]

I too came from elsewhere (several elsewheres), and have been surprised at how restrictive Texas weapons laws (not just open carry) are, given its cowboy reputation. Granted better than Cali or NY, but still, nothing like other western states. The CHL statute in the 90s was a big change and welcome change, but even that took more than one try -- and booting out the previously dominant political party as well.

As far as I can see, Texas has had very restrictive weapons laws since the aftermath of the civil war which is, I suspect, why seamus pointed you to that guncite link. It is a long article, but it details how the laws evolved rather quickly from open arms carrying to zero legal arms carry (especially for handguns and knives) -- and then stayed static for over 100 years. One thing the article at guncite doesn't seem to mention much is that there was quite a bit of violent crime in Texas just after the Civil War -- gangs of ex-soldiers and others preying on citizens and each other, and the newly freed blacks. The governments of the time did what governments usually do -- tried to concentrate hoard power, especially force, to itself. This also turned out be a convenient way to wield the power of the law against freed blacks and political opponents.

It has been popular for years for the southern states to blame "carpetbaggers" for all their troubles, including 2A troubles, but a closer look seems to tell me that if anything, the North fought to impose individual rights (most notably liberty, i.e. anti-slavery), and the South fought to preserve the State government's rights to be as oppressive as they wished, without interference from the Feds. Although the Reconstruction legislature passed some of the first gun control laws (a poor idea indeed), in response to the violent crime of that period. the succeeding Democratic legislatures had many opportunities to fix this, but did not. The language was wordsmithed at various conventions and subsquent legislative sessions to re-recognize the "right" to have arms -- but that right could be regulated by the legislature so closely as to render it void. Hence, you can have an "illegal knife" such as a Bowie, or have a pistol, but you generally can't carry either one, concealed or not, off of your own property. As I said, it took another 100+ years and a major political shift to even get concealed carry and the MPA, never mind open carry.

And you still can't generally carry a bowie knife off of your own property.

And I don't know the answer to seamus's question. It is too late at night to study all those foot notes!

[Fangs]

Does it surprise you that we don't all ride horses down here too?

EDIT: I'm just poking fun. I'm personally all for having OC as an option as long as CC isn't negatively affected.

[ELB]

Oh, and while I think the OC should be the state of affairs, given the history of Texas and the struggle to even get concealed carry going, I am not particularly in favor of making OC THE top political priority. I think there is still progress that needs to be made in cementing and normalizing what is already legal, like CHL carry in buildings owned by the state or local government but leased by private entities...and carry of rifles in all legal venues... and reducing the list of prohibited (to CHL) places to zero.

[03Lightningrocks]

I am originally from Kentucky. My whole family is from there on both sides. There are a couple things Kentucky does not have that Texas does. Poncho's..... Taco Bueno and Grandy's just to name a few. Ky has alimony until the wicked old bat get's remarried.... Texas has a very limited sort of alimony... two years or marriage. Kentucky has laws allowing creditors to seize your paycheck... Texas doesn't. Kentucky has state income tax... not here you don't. Kentucky has no professional football or baseball team.... we have several in Texas. Many things are diferent between Kentucky and Texas. I don't spend a whole lot of time wondering why. It just is. Funny thing though... I don't think I remember seeing anyone open carrying in Kentucky...ever. I had no idea it was even legal there. Makes me wonder if the same would be here if we had open carry.

My main concern with it would be shop keepers freaking out about seeing guns and posting all over the place. Truth is... it might not happen enough for most folks to even notice it.


Welcome to Texas and try to just enjoy it for what it is and not hurt your head trying to figure out why it is not Kentucky. If the gun laws boggle your mind, I can't wait to see how you react when you decide to find a place to deer hunt.

[gigag04]

Idunno what the OP's fuss is all about. Open Carry is legal in TX, I open carry in front of people all the time.





State income tax....pshhhhhhhhh

[Drewthetexan]

Idunno what the OP's fuss is all about. Open Carry is legal in TX, I open carry in front of people all the time.

Somehow I don't think that's what he had in mind.

[texas1234]

You have a lot of gun rights in Texas! You can OC on private property, so yes if you ever come to our Ranch or Deer lease you will see pretty much everyone open carrying, if you ever come to my house or on my property you will see me open carrying. Please feel free to lobby the legislature to open carry at McDonalds, and please feel free to open carry while I'm there so you can draw the attention from the bad guy while I am able to pull my concealed handgun. I am not against open carrying but to say we have restrictive gun rights is not completely factual.

Last year I was driving back from the deer lease with a shotgun and a deer rifle on the front seat of my truck in plain site and a concealed .45 and I was pulled over for speeding. The police officer politely asked me for my DL and I gave him my CHL. He said are you concealing sir, I said yes sir my pistol is in the console, he said okay why dont you just slow it down and have a nice day. I was within Texas Law on all three weapons.

I dont consider my ability to have three high powered weapons in my vehicle two of them in plain site and one concealed to be restrictive gun rights.

Sure we have work to do in Texas, but I dont agree with you to lable Texas as restrictive just because we cant open carry at HEB.

[cwohardy]

You have a lot of gun rights in Texas! You can OC on private property, so yes if you ever come to our Ranch or Deer lease you will see pretty much everyone open carrying, if you ever come to my house or on my property you will see me open carrying. Please feel free to lobby the legislature to open carry at McDonalds, and please feel free to open carry while I'm there so you can draw the attention from the bad guy while I am able to pull my concealed handgun. I am not against open carrying but to say we have restrictive gun rights is not completely factual.

Last year I was driving back from the deer lease with a shotgun and a deer rifle on the front seat of my truck in plain site and a concealed .45 and I was pulled over for speeding. The police officer politely asked me for my DL and I gave him my CHL. He said are you concealing sir, I said yes sir my pistol is in the console, he said okay why dont you just slow it down and have a nice day. I was within Texas Law on all three weapons.

I dont consider my ability to have three high powered weapons in my vehicle two of them in plain site and one concealed to be restrictive gun rights.

Sure we have work to do in Texas, but I dont agree with you to lable Texas as restrictive just because we cant open carry at HEB.

texas1234,

I have to respectfully disagree with your opinion as it is my belief that anything less than OC is a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

[Texgun]

My take on why OC is not legal.... It is legal BUT the ablity to carry HANDGUNS, ILLEGAL KNIVES, and CLUBS is "regulated" by the legislature with a view to prevent crime.

Sec. 23. RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS. Every citizen shall have the right to keep and bear arms in the lawful defense of himself or the State; but the Legislature shall have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms, with a view to prevent crime.

You can legally carry longarms. You may encounter some police scrutiny and get to defend yourself in court against disorderly conduct charges but you would still be legal. Law enforcement had a heavy presence in Huntsville when Gary Graham was executed. This did not deter Quanell X and his followers from parading the area openly carrying AR's.

[The Annoyed Man]

AGAIN. MY QUESTION IS does anyone have a historical perspective on why Texas does not allow OC?

OK, I was confused. I actually understand your question now. I don't know enough about Texas history to answer with any kind of detail, but it does beg the question because now you've got me curious... Has Kentucky always had open carry from day one, or is open carry in Kentucky something which became legal at some point in the state's history? If the latter, then how did it first become illegal there? The reason I ask is that if it was ever illegal in Kentucky, it would have been for similar reasons as to how it became illegal here in Texas. Hoplophobia knows no state boundaries.

[jimlongley]

. . . it is my belief that anything less than OC is a violation of the 2nd Amendment.

And I agree with you there, but we do have political reality to deal with.

For a little historical perspective, when I was a very young child, after my Yankee Carpetbagger parents kidnapped me from my native San Antonio and carried me off to upstate NY to grow up, we came back to Texas to visit family a couple of times. Air travel being what it was in the late 40s and early 50s, we took the train, and I remember well seeing "cowboys" get on the train carrying saddles, tack, and guns. See the interesting "traveling" law.

After my grandpappy followed his two daughters to upstate NY, there was less impetus to visit relatives, but I did make it back in 1958. Never saw any OC in Houston, but not far south of the city, in Texas terms anyway, visiting relatives in Calhoun County, open carry was still practiced. Saw OC in Louisiana.

What changed?

The political climate veered left in the 60s.

JFK, Charlie Whitman, trying to shed Texas' "Wild West" image (interesting since the real wild west was in Missouri) and a bunch of other stuff, and laws that are tough to get rid of got passed.

We are working on getting back to normal, but it takes time, effort, and money.

[MojoTexas]

Although I'm a native Texan, I spent about 5 years living in Kansas, and finally moved back to Texas in 2008. I think it was in 2006 that Kansas finally passed a concealed carry law, but the funny thing is that although open carry is legal there, nobody ever does it, and I think if you tried you would definitely get a lot of LEO attention.

I never bothered getting my Kansas CHL because I knew I would be moving back to Texas soon, but I remember all the sensationalist liberal nonsense in the media after it passed (despite then-Governor-now-Secretary-of-Health Kathleen Sebelius's veto)...there would be violence in the streets, etc. In Kansas, a "gun busters" sign is legal notice that you cannot carry concealed, and you began seeing them EVERYWHERE.

My only point is that although Kansas technically has legal open carry on the state level, it might be prohibited on a local level, and was certainly not something you saw every day on the streets of Wichita where I lived.

MojoTexas

[74novaman]

I'm far more bothered Texans can't carry Bowie knives than OC...that one always gets me.

Even if we had OC, I for one would never bother. I like concealed carry.