OH - LEO Notification goes BAD, really BAD.

[flintknapper]

Meh...

I don't have much sympathy for either party.

The LEO exhibited less than professional behavior, threatened to use unlawful force, and insinuated his partner would support him as a "witness". He's the guy that gives LEO's a bad name to those unwilling to accept the fact that most LEO's perform their duties lawfully and professionally.

The CHL holder had AMPLE time to notify BOTH officers and he FAILED. I'm not buying the "they wouldn't let me speak" excuse, nor am I buying the "...but officer, I wasn't picking up a prostitute" story either.

Fail all around.

While I would agree that the "prompt" notification requirement is indeed vague, you can't argue that the CHL in the video could have been more "prompt" with his notification.

Seriously? Your assessment is "less than professional behavior?" The cops says he hates people with carry permits. Threatens to murder a guy because he has one, and you think the problem is the CHL holder didn't get his words out fast enough? If you were on tape doing that where do you think you'd be right now? And since when is picking up a prostitute a death penalty crime? What would you do if someone with a gun threatened to murder you?

And what difference does it make what some other hypothetical cop does --these guys are on tape threatening to murder someone and stage a cover up, and say they can do it without even losing a nights sleep. These guys shouldn't have a badge or any position with power over another human being for the rest of their lives --they shouldn't even be allowed to manage a Burger King.

Yeah, its like saying Mount Vesuvius "was a bit of a problem" for Pompeii and Herculaneum!

But...some folks are gonna side with the cops...no matter what.

[Dutchster]

You don't see the two Houston PD unions getting involved in something as blatant as this incident;they're too smart to make that mistake and lose any credibility with the public. Trying to blame this on a new concealed carry law is absurd.

Not to mention that there's nothing "new" about Ohio's concealed carry law, particularly the notification part. It's been law for over seven years now. That's a third of a career for many government employees who do the 20 or 25 and out.

The union was quoted in another source again today, much more subdued. He tried to call it an isolated incident and pretty much left it at that. These types of union spokespeople seem to be common in Ohio. Cleveland's got a pretty good "do no wrong" guy too. Must be that they suffer from Ron White's "Had....the.........right to remain....silent..............but not ... the ...a-...bility...." syndrome.

[gregthehand]

The cop in question got mad and scared at his action of taking too long to approach the driver. He knew he screwed so he tried to cover his poor police work by making the driver the one who was at fault. Unfortunatley when cops make a mistake they sometimes try to create some kind of offense by the person they are dealing with at that moment in hopes that it will covere their poor police work.

I've seen this first hand and to be very honest I screwed up while on the street and the thought did flash through my head that I could just work this into an arrest/offense to try and cover up my mistake. One time in particular I remember I stopped a guy for what I had thought was an illegal turn. Without getting too far off topic it was actually the car next to him that had made the illegal turn. I sat in my car and tried to think of ANYTHING I could write a ticket for. Thankfully I was raised right and apologized and let the guy go. We've also seen it with cops executing the search warrant on the wrong house and then searching for hours and finding something no matter how small to charge the resident with.

I would argue that this cop was a hot head to start with who didn't like taking repsonsibility for his actions before he ever became a cop. Couple that with the authority he had as a police officer and the fact that cops who make mistakes in the area of officer safety will often get canned and you have someone who will completely overeact when they are faced with a mistake they've made. In his mind he probably felt that his mistake was bigger than it was and got scarred, then overcompensated.

I'm thinking a lot of the insults he was hurling were running through his mind as how he thought of himself.

Finding good cops is really hard. If you've applied for a job in law enforcement you know how far they check into the background of potential hires but sometimes stuff just slips through. This guy seems to have had a history of overeacting and I can promise you that if he is able to stay in law enforcement (which is likely from what I'm told the way that the FOP works in Ohio) this tape and his spotty record will come into play at every use of force hearing this guy ever gets involved with. He's an idiot and I hope that he does stay fired and out of law enforcement. He gives cops a bad name. However the sad truth is I feel they are taking a long time with thier reaction in order to let things cool down so it can be swept under the rug.

[speedsix]

Interview with the driver: http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_ ... ce-officer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Note from the court paper:

A court summons indicated, "Subject had concealed upon his person one .38 Cal Ruger pistol that was loaded and ready to fire. Subject did not inform police officers that he had a CCW permit through Stark County until the weapon was discovered during a pat down of his person during a traffic stop of his vehicle."

The above statement contradicts what is in the video, since he clearly had the CHL in one hand and DL in the other and told the officer that his armed before the pat down. This gets him cleared quickly by the judge.

...and add perjury to the list of offenses by the animal..."...loaded and ready to fire..." is scrabbling desperately to make the customer look bad and cover his butt...no sale...

[Jumping Frog]

It's somewhat ironic that this happened in Canton, OH.

Why? Well, the SCOTUS case of City of Canton, Ohio v. Harris is a landmark Fourth Amendment case for failure to train LEOs.

From the SCOTUS decision:

The inadequacy of police training may serve as the basis for § 1983 liability only where the failure to train in a relevant respect amounts to deliberate indifference to the constitutional rights of persons with whom the police come into contact.

I guess not much has changed in the Canton OH police force . . .

[speedsix]

...wonder if those two did Katrina patrol in NOLA as their summer mission trip???!!!

[OldCurlyWolf]

When, pray tell, did he have time?

As soon as the supporting officer stuck his nose in the vehicle.

CHL: "Officer..."
LEO: "Shut up!"
CHL: (ASSERTIVE VOICE) "FOR YOUR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE LAW, I AM REQUIRED TO INFORM YOU THAT AS A LICENSED CHL HOLDER I CURRENTLY HAVE A FIREARM IN MY POSSES ION"


Simple as that, really. Are they going to charge you with using an assertive voice in order to COMPLY WITH THE LAW? If so, I would be willing to bet it wouldn't hold up in a court of law.

While, as I posted before, I do NOT support the unprofessional conduct of the LEO's, I DO believe the CHL holder could have informed them EARLIER than he did. As a juror given the circumstances, however, I would NOT believe he was guilty of failure to notify in accordance with the law.

This video, and similar vids, once again emphasizes the importance of contingency planning and rehearsals prior to a use of force incident, or an LEO contact. Whether it's a simple LEO encounter, reaction to threat without the use of deadly force, or a reaction to threat including the use of deadly force, planning ahead can help a CHL holder develop viable courses of action BEFORE they happen. With this frame work already in mind, it affords the opportunity to act more decisively, effectively, and in accordance with the law with simple adjustments needed for each unique situation, rather than having to develop a whole plan on the spot.

Some of those contingencies we have discussed on this very forum, including actions taken during an LEO stop. Granted, hookers and pimps weren't part of the equation though.

Had you done so in that situation with that police officer in that mode, we would be hearing of you recuperating in the hospital at best. Likely we would be reading your obituary.

Your suggested action in the situation as described is quite impractical.

[speedsix]

[E.Marquez]

CHL: "Officer..."
LEO: "Shut up!"
CHL: (ASSERTIVE VOICE) "FOR YOUR SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, AND IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE LAW, I...Thwap...... ...hey.. stop it...ThwapthwapthwapOWeeeee,, hey, officer thwapthwap....officer I have thwap, I ha thwap.....................................Later that week.......................Nurse, may I have another cup of ice chips (written on a note pad, as it's tough to talk with your jaw wired)

NOTE, This has been a tongue in cheek ad-lib change to a post above, no animal or personal feelings were intended to be hurt.

[jimandyen]

In Ohio does Law Enforcement know when they look up a vehicle plate number
that the owner has a CHL like here in Texas?
In the video it almost looks like they knew and were avoiding the driver on purpose so they could set
him up for not telling them.... crazy.

[speedsix]

...now there's a distinct possibility...given the stellar character of our two stooges...

[Beiruty]

In Ohio does Law Enforcement know when they look up a vehicle plate number
that the owner has a CHL like here in Texas?
In the video it almost looks like they knew and were avoiding the driver on purpose so they could set
him up for not telling them.... crazy.

In TX, CHL info tied to DL not vehicle plate number. In Ohio, it is the case, tied to the vehicle plate number. Those 2 officers did so many things wrong, including not paying attention to CHL info when they run the numbers. Also, Why they did not address the driver first is still...

[C-dub]

Just watched the entire video. I couldn't defend these two officers even if I wanted to and I don't want to.

However, at about 1:35 when the bigger jerk approaches the car the victim does not attempt to notify him then. When the other officer is inside the car I can't hear what is said and the flashlight is only briefly shined in the victims face. I don't actually hear the victim being interrupted and prevented from telling them he has a concealed carry permit until just before they get him out of the car. Meanwhile, he keeps saying he's never done this before instead of telling them he has a concealed carry permit. He speaks plenty before he is interrupted, but doesn't say what is important.

[Beiruty]

I had 2 contacts with LEO, one in speeding stop with my family in the car and one in car accident. In first case, when I was asked for ID, I presented both DL and CHL and declared that I am CHLer and I am carrying. I was asked where it was I said it is in my funny pack weak side. That was it and I got the ticket too.
In the second case, I was outside the car and I presented both DL and CHL and the lady officer just said, I do not need your CHL and asked where is my firearm. I pointed it is in my funny pack weak side. That was it.

In both case, no one asked me to get out of car, disarmed, and treated like what happened in to this man in Ohio. So shocking!

[mamabearCali]

I have a question and maybe someone knows the answer. As we have seen in this video/ police report it is obvious that the police officer lied in his report. (Not seeing something from a different perspective--not a misunderstanding out and out lied). I have known of a few situations now where police lied in the report and then were shown to be blatently lying by video tape. Is there any consequences for the police officers when they lie?