Philly Police Harass, Threaten to Shoot Man Legally Carrying

[Beiruty]

This is why OC by CHLer should pass. No arrest for printing ever! No arrest ever for going to the range while OC.

[Keith B]

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.

If I'm not mistaken, Handog was not printing, but accidentally exposed his CCW. Woman saw it, alerted police.

[Keith B]

This is why OC by CHLer should pass. No arrest for printing ever! No arrest ever for going to the range while OC.

I am not aware of anyone being arrested for either in Texas. However, it wouldn't necessarily change anything. OC is not illegal in Philadelphia either, but look at what they do to folks that open carry.

[Mike1951]

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.

If I'm not mistaken, Handog was not printing, but accidentally exposed his CCW. Woman saw it, alerted police.

I interpreted the following as printing:

Even though my hand gun was holstered IWB with a long shirt covering it was somehow identified. The next thing I knew there were eight handguns and a shotgun staring me in the face.

This was from the followup thread, as the original thread was deleted due to possible legal implications.

[speedsix]

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.

If I'm not mistaken, Handog was not printing, but accidentally exposed his CCW. Woman saw it, alerted police.

I interpreted the following as printing:

Even though my hand gun was holstered IWB with a long shirt covering it was somehow identified. The next thing I knew there were eight handguns and a shotgun staring me in the face.

This was from the followup thread, as the original thread was deleted due to possible legal implications.

...to have that many respond, he must have been at a donut shoppe~~~

[sugar land dave]

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.

Mike,

I did not disagree with handog's post regarding humiliation, nor did I accuse him of sedition or insurrection. I merely tried to point out that any course of action has consequences when someone is pointing a firearm at you. One choice I mentioned involved physical results; the other choice involved mostly psychological damage.

I won't debate the philosophy of evaluation and valuation of opinions. No one here knows me, so there is none who can validate my worth as a poster, but you can still have an opinion, and it is that which I value.

[C-dub]

This is why OC by CHLer should pass. No arrest for printing ever! No arrest ever for going to the range while OC.

I am not aware of anyone being arrested for either in Texas. However, it wouldn't necessarily change anything. OC is not illegal in Philadelphia either, but look at what they do to folks that open carry.

I was also going to make that point Keith.

If OC passes here things like this will, unfortunately, happen for some that choose to OC. Hopefully, humiliation will be the worst that happens.

I have mentioned that I have a couple of friends on my local PD and a few other nearby PD's. If OC passes I will be talking with them about each department's policy and how a MWG call will be handled and what I will be required to do or should do for them if I decide I would like to OC myself.

[Bullwhip]

When its someone else being ordered to get on his knees during a routine stop it’s called inconvenient. When it you its humiliating. Nevertheless, surrender to the Police state indoctrination and have a nice day.

I know, but... Sometimes in life you have to choose the lesser of two evils. Being humiliated vs having a bullet suddenly introduced into your body... Drug-crazed robbers and adrenaline-pumped LEO's are both dangerous when they have their firearms pointed at you.

Dave, as a recent member, you might not be aware that handog has gained a unique perspective on this. He may be the only CHL arrested for 'printing' and he faced a large, aggressive police response.

Consequently, I hold his opinion above all others on this subject.

If I'm not mistaken, Handog was not printing, but accidentally exposed his CCW. Woman saw it, alerted police.

Define "arrested"?

i think srothstein was the one who posted the case law, but every traffic stop in Texas means the driver is "arrested" until its over.

So no matter how many responded, Handog was "arrested" if he couldn't just walk away. If the police didn't have RAS that he was UCW, case dismissed.

[Keith B]

If I'm not mistaken, Handog was not printing, but accidentally exposed his CCW. Woman saw it, alerted police.

Define "arrested"?

i think srothstein was the one who posted the case law, but every traffic stop in Texas means the driver is "arrested" until its over.

So no matter how many responded, Handog was "arrested" if he couldn't just walk away. If the police didn't have RAS that he was UCW, case dismissed.

Yes, Handog WAS arrested, taken in and booked. However, I still believe it was because his weapon was actually exposed and NOT just printing. If I am incorrect on that, then Handog can correct me.

[Katygunnut]

I find the statement by the Philidelphia Police spokesman to be particularly troubling. "local authorities are warning gun owners that they will be "inconvenienced" if they carry unconcealed handguns in the city."

How is this any different from the chief of police in Katy openly warning young minorities that they will be "inconvenienced" if they go into wealthier areas of the city? I don't think any police department would be stupid enough to make such an ignorant statement in public, and yet IMHO the Philly police dept position is just as bad since both are publicly threatening those who exercise fundamental civil rights.

I agree that it is easier to just go along with the oppression of our rights instead of fighting for our liberties. Fortunately we have brave men and women in our midst who will not take the easy way out, and are willing to suffer personal inconvenience and potential abuse / incarceration / or even the loss of their lives to stand up for what is right. They are fighting for our rights just like I and my fellow veterans have done.

[Keith B]

I find the statement by the Philidelphia Police spokesman to be particularly troubling. "local authorities are warning gun owners that they will be "inconvenienced" if they carry unconcealed handguns in the city."

How is this any different from the chief of police in Katy openly warning young minorities that they will be "inconvenienced" if they go into wealthier areas of the city? I don't think any police department would be stupid enough to make such an ignorant statement in public, and yet IMHO the Philly police dept position is just as bad since both are publicly threatening those who exercise fundamental civil rights.

I agree that it is easier to just go along with the oppression of our rights instead of fighting for our liberties. Fortunately we have brave men and women in our midst who will not take the easy way out, and are willing to suffer personal inconvenience and potential abuse / incarceration / or even the loss of their lives to stand up for what is right. They are fighting for our rights just like I and my fellow veterans have done.

Big difference IMO. Philadelphia has licensed open carry, but apparently don't like it. They need probable cause and a young minority in an urban area is not probable cause. However, since it is licensed OC in Philadelphia, they HAVE probable cause detain anyone who open carries to check and make sure they are properly licensed. Unfortunately, they are not always doing this in a pleasant method, as evident in the tape. Any encounter that starts with 'Hey, Junior' is not professional on the officers part and will more than likely go downhill if at least one of the parties is not adult about the confrontation, which in this case, neither were IMO.

Bottom line, while I am not against open carry in general, there are still places to do it and places not to. If the guy had been carrying concealed there would have been no confrontational situation. This guy went 'Trolling for Cops'. He hooked a nasty one, and now it is going to cost him to fight that fish because the DA is going to try everything he can to keep the guy from landing his catch and mounting it in his trophy room.

[ScottDLS]

...
Big difference IMO. Philadelphia has licensed open carry, but apparently don't like it. They need probable cause and a young minority in an urban area is not probable cause. However, since it is licensed OC in Philadelphia, they HAVE probable cause detain anyone who open carries to check and make sure they are properly licensed.
...

Texas has licensed driving. Do the police have probable cause to pull over anyone that is driving to see if they have a license?

[steveincowtown]

This guy went 'Trolling for Cops'.

I am not pointing a finger at Keith, but at soceity here.

It is truly saddens me that anyone that is doing something within not only the laws of their locality but moreover within their constitutional rights would ever be considered “Trolling for Cops.” Our forefathers paid with their blood, and the blood of their family to earn the rights we have today and it really is a pitty that they are slipping away at an alarming rate.

[Purplehood]

This guy went 'Trolling for Cops'.

I am not pointing a finger at Keith, but at soceity here.

It is truly saddens me that anyone that is doing something within not only the laws of their locality but moreover within their constitutional rights would ever be considered “Trolling for Cops.” Our forefathers paid with their blood, and the blood of their family to earn the rights we have today and it really is a pitty that they are slipping away at an alarming rate.

In a weird, convoluted way, I agree.

[jimlongley]

I find the statement by the Philidelphia Police spokesman to be particularly troubling. "local authorities are warning gun owners that they will be "inconvenienced" if they carry unconcealed handguns in the city."

How is this any different from the chief of police in Katy openly warning young minorities that they will be "inconvenienced" if they go into wealthier areas of the city? I don't think any police department would be stupid enough to make such an ignorant statement in public, and yet IMHO the Philly police dept position is just as bad since both are publicly threatening those who exercise fundamental civil rights.

I agree that it is easier to just go along with the oppression of our rights instead of fighting for our liberties. Fortunately we have brave men and women in our midst who will not take the easy way out, and are willing to suffer personal inconvenience and potential abuse / incarceration / or even the loss of their lives to stand up for what is right. They are fighting for our rights just like I and my fellow veterans have done.

Big difference IMO. Philadelphia has licensed open carry, but apparently don't like it. They need probable cause and a young minority in an urban area is not probable cause. However, since it is licensed OC in Philadelphia, they HAVE probable cause detain anyone who open carries to check and make sure they are properly licensed. Unfortunately, they are not always doing this in a pleasant method, as evident in the tape. Any encounter that starts with 'Hey, Junior' is not professional on the officers part and will more than likely go downhill if at least one of the parties is not adult about the confrontation, which in this case, neither were IMO.

Bottom line, while I am not against open carry in general, there are still places to do it and places not to. If the guy had been carrying concealed there would have been no confrontational situation. This guy went 'Trolling for Cops'. He hooked a nasty one, and now it is going to cost him to fight that fish because the DA is going to try everything he can to keep the guy from landing his catch and mounting it in his trophy room.

I have to respectfully disagree on a couple of points, Keith, the first being that seeing someone OC in Philly is probable cause to check for a license, at least not drawing down on him unannounced, and "Hey Junior" does not comply with any sort of announcement.

Secondly, he wasn't just being checked for a proper license, the cop, actually several cops, told him that what he was doing was illegal.

And of course, now that he has embarrassed them by proving they were wrong and not just about OC but about recording the confrontation, they are going to grasp for anything to charge him with.

I can easily envision such a thing happening here in TX with an invalid 30.06 sign and an unknowing cop, and just because it hasn't happened, doesn't mean it won't.