Swissy wrote:I like the idea of doing an upgraded trigger, but with my limited experience of shooting an automatic rifle, I question if I will know the difference?
A marine buddy of mine is trying to talk me in to a Geiselle, thoughts?
Geiselle, CMC, and Timney are all good triggers. As to whether or not you would notice the difference? ABSOLUTELY! I own a DMR AR with a "tuned" stock trigger (tuned by my gunsmith son) which is quite a bit better than stock. I also own a carbine which I just finished building recently (
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=80132), and it has a Timney 3.0 lb competition trigger, and it is a HUGE difference - quite a bit better than the tuned stock trigger. By way of comparison, I also have a Timney trigger in my precision .308 bolt rifle, and the AR's Timney compares favorably to the bolt gun's Timney. I also own a SCAR 17S which I swapped out the 8.0 lb stock trigger for a 3.5 lb Timney, making a huge difference in the shootability. That said, what AndyC says is true. You can build with the stock trigger - which is perfectly serviceable - and upgrade later when you have the money. Luckily, that's part of the beauty of the AR platform. You can upgrade to another trigger in 15 minutes. It's not that big of a deal.
Now, I went with Timney on the AR and SCAR because I had Timney experience with the bolt rifle. But I also have a circle of friends who are very experienced shooters, who have opted for the Geiselle trigger on their ARs and SCARs, and I've heard good things about the CMG. But the point is that any reputable aftermarket trigger maker is going to provide you with a BIG improvement in your shooting experience. They are spendy. The Timneys run in the $230 range, same for the Geiselles. I think the MSRP for the CMGs is about the same, but they can be found on sale for less. The Timneys and Geiselles tend to sell for full pop, no matter where you buy them. But they are WELL worth the investment. I will be retrofitting my DMR with the same Timney that's on my carbine, and I will eventually upgrade my wife's carbine the same way.
Now, as to the COST of building your own, you can save a lot of money, or you can buy the best and spend WAY more than you had expected. My wife's carbine probably cost about $600 to build, not counting the EOTech sight. (It's been long enough I no longer remember exactly what it came to.) My DMR has about $1,300 in it, not counting optic. But my latest carbine build has $2,056 in it, NOT counting the 2 optics listed below that I have for it, the suppressor, or the ATF tax stamp for the suppressor. So you can get about as crazy as you want.
The parts list for the new carbine includes:
- Spikes Tactical Gen II Billet Lower w/ all parts except trigger/hammer assembly. Includes anti-walk pins and 100% ambidextrous controls
- Matching Spikes Tactical Gen II Billet Upper assembly
- Spikes Tactical buffer tube and buffer assembly
- MFT Battlelink Minimalist Stock Mil Spec
- Timney single stage 3 lb competition trigger
- BCM Gunfighter ambidextrous charging handle
- Anderson Arms mid-length gas-piston conversion kit with bolt carrier
- Leitner-Wise nickel-boron bolt upgrade kit
- 16" Rainier Arms Select 5.56mm medium contour barrel, 416 stainless, mid-length gas port, Wylde chamber, 1:8 twist, 5-R polygonal rifling
- 11" Samson Evo keymod rail
- AAC 51T flash hider / suppressor mount
- AAC 762-SDN-6 suppressor
- Magpul MBUS Pro LR sight set
- Optics:
- Aimpoint T2 Micro on BOBRO QD mount for HD/CQB, zeroed to 50 yards
- Trijicon 4x32 BAC ACOG (TA31F) on BOBRO QD mount for other uses (I use BOBRO mounts exclusively because they return to within .1 MOA of zero or better after remounting), zeroed to 100 yards
Each one of those items was pretty expensive compared to other brands, and in the aggregate, this is more than I've ever spent on any firearm of any kind in my life to date with the exception of my SCAR 17S. But the first reward was in the shooting -
especially in the quality of the trigger and in accuracy - and this rifle is a keeper. I can't imagine upgrading it ever, because I've already built it out of nothing but "upgrade" parts.
So, that comparison between a $600 plinker, a $1,300 DMR, and a $2,100 "End of Times" carbine represents the kind of money you can expect to spend, depending on what you're trying to accomplish, and not counting optics, or NFA items.
And, I benefited from having built several of these over the years, and having a son who is a gunsmith to help me whenever I wanted the help, so I didn't have to pay anyone to put it together for me.
I would probably put a Spikes parts kit in your new lower.
all good advice here! Only other thing I would add here is to buy a quality barrel, and also a quality bolt carrier group (nickel boron is my preference). But like stated before this platform is extremely simple, as you will soon find out; Making changes even more simple.