AR-15 (build) recommendations

[cb1000rider]

what"s you price range? Some peoples idea of budget could be another person's dream ar

Say <$1k, not counting optics. That doesn't mean "spend $1k" - that's just the upper end of what I'd be willing to work with.

[The Annoyed Man]

I'd check Rainier arms for deals if I was building an AR today. Their brand labeled stuff is pretty good, and more original than Spikes or PSA lowers/uppers which are the usual heavy hitters for a decent budget gun.

A friend of mine just built a new AR from parts ordered through Rainer Arms. It's a 16" carbine, and it is very nice, but it was also very spendy. I know for a fact that he's got well more than $1,000 in it. One the other hand, when we were at TacPro three weeks ago, he was banging steel with it at 500 yards, using an EOTech and a 3x magnifier.

[cajunautoxer]

This is what built for a buddy of mine recently
Lower
Fat Boy Tactical $50 blemished lower
LPK w/o trigger $40
G2S trigger $165 or you can go with ALG Mil spec $45 and JP yellow spring $12 (best combo for less than $100)
Magpul STR stock, moe grip, stock assembly kit, hand guard (can't use unless you go with carbine barrel), and vertical grip $99 (botach service can be iffy so I used my AMEX)
curved trigger guard $20

Upper
Complete upper $100 on sale $75
Handguard ALG modular 12" $145 (has everything you'll need) Now if your going with a 20" barrel you'll want a 15" hanguard. I like JP myself $225
BCG $80 or coated $130 AIM has coated ones for $100 when it's on stock(i used one)
Comp use Miculek's can't beat it for $45 or ALG has one for $35
Barrel I can't really help you since I've never researched 20" barrels. It also depends on what you want to do with rifle also. I'm into 3 gun matches so a barrel that can shoot 30-40 rounds quickly and maintain descent accuracy is important to me. I've been happy with Nordic barrels myself. If you go with their 18" the gas ports are under sized so that you can use a low mass bcg without having to use a adjustable gas block. But then you need a low mass buffer and spring

[jayinsat]

This is what built for a buddy of mine recently
Lower
Fat Boy Tactical $50 blemished lowerLPK w/o trigger $40
G2S trigger $165 or you can go with ALG Mil spec $45 and JP yellow spring $12 (best combo for less than $100)
Magpul STR stock, moe grip, stock assembly kit, hand guard (can't use unless you go with carbine barrel), and vertical grip $99 (botach service can be iffy so I used my AMEX)
curved trigger guard $20

Upper
Complete upper $100 on sale $75
Handguard ALG modular 12" $145 (has everything you'll need) Now if your going with a 20" barrel you'll want a 15" hanguard. I like JP myself $225
BCG $80 or coated $130 AIM has coated ones for $100 when it's on stock(i used one)
Comp use Miculek's can't beat it for $45 or ALG has one for $35
Barrel I can't really help you since I've never researched 20" barrels. It also depends on what you want to do with rifle also. I'm into 3 gun matches so a barrel that can shoot 30-40 rounds quickly and maintain descent accuracy is important to me. I've been happy with Nordic barrels myself. If you go with their 18" the gas ports are under sized so that you can use a low mass bcg without having to use a adjustable gas block. But then you need a low mass buffer and spring

I just assembled a lower last night, my first, from Fat Boy Tactical. It is an Anderson Mfr blemished lower I got for $39! I could not find a real blemish on that thing. I'm starting a new thread to chronicle my first build.

[cb1000rider]

I've been busy with other things, but I'm back to this and it looks like I'm going to go over budget.. There certainly are less expensive ways to get into this platform, but wanting to use this 100+ yards out, that starts to cost some money:
1) BCM SS410 18" Rifle Length Upper Receiver Group - Stainless, fluted, heavy. Modified charge handle. Full floating.
2) Minor section of aluminum rail under it, largely to mount a by-pod... However, I'm reading that marksmen don't like anything that puts pressure on the barrel.
This runs about $800 shipped.

I'm still shopping for the lower.. I think I'm going to buy an assembled lower, prefer mil-spec. Looking for a 2-stage trigger assembly.
Optics will be in the 1-6x range... Still haven't decided here.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been busy with other things, but I'm back to this and it looks like I'm going to go over budget.. There certainly are less expensive ways to get into this platform, but wanting to use this 100+ yards out, that starts to cost some money:
1) BCM SS410 18" Rifle Length Upper Receiver Group - Stainless, fluted, heavy. Modified charge handle. Full floating.
2) Minor section of aluminum rail under it, largely to mount a by-pod... However, I'm reading that marksmen don't like anything that puts pressure on the barrel.
This runs about $800 shipped.

I'm still shopping for the lower.. I think I'm going to buy an assembled lower, prefer mil-spec. Looking for a 2-stage trigger assembly.
Optics will be in the 1-6x range... Still haven't decided here.

If the handguard free-floats the barrel, that bipod will not affect it when mounted to the rail. Again, it's that 90º angular pressure thing I mentioned before. Free-floating eliminates it. I have much the same setup, only it is an 18" barrel with rifle-length gas system and a 15.5" free floated handguard with one small section of rail at the front to mount the bipod on.

BTW, it looks as if you did what I predicted might happen..... that once you started actually doing the research, you saw the value in buying better parts, even if it put you over the original budget. But another way of looking at it is that you probably spent a good deal less than if you had bought a rifle already assembled with the same parts.

One thing you could have done to save money.... instead of buying the complete barreled upper, buy the individual components and assemble it yourself..... at the very least saving yourself the labor cost built into the completed assembly, not to mention the profit that BCM marked up into the component prices.

I'm not criticizing their practice. I would have done it the same way if I were them. I'm just saying that you can get the components individually and cut out both the middleman's labor and parts markup.

[cb1000rider]

I'm ordering it in the next day or two. I looked around at stainless fluted barrels in 18-20" length, they tend to go for pretty decent coin. The value in assembling the upper, to me, is exactly that - you know how to assemble it. If you can recommend a set of parts that would work, I'll certainly take a look.. Although part of the complication with the AR platform is the amount of available parts...

Thanks for the education on the "Free floating" - I will likely understand it more when I see it. I was surprised to read that a tiny bit of barrel pressure causes enough deflection to result in inches at 200' or more.

[Iunnrais]

I might add, don't get in too big of a hurry buying parts. There should be a number of nice sales between now and January that will help you along in the process. IIRC, I shaved about $500 off the overall cost of my 6.8 AR just by watching for parts to be on sale. Made it a much easier sell to the wife along the way as well :)

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm ordering it in the next day or two. I looked around at stainless fluted barrels in 18-20" length, they tend to go for pretty decent coin. The value in assembling the upper, to me, is exactly that - you know how to assemble it. If you can recommend a set of parts that would work, I'll certainly take a look.. Although part of the complication with the AR platform is the amount of available parts...

Thanks for the education on the "Free floating" - I will likely understand it more when I see it. I was surprised to read that a tiny bit of barrel pressure causes enough deflection to result in inches at 200' or more.

The barrel I bought is from Odin Works https://www.odinworks.com/223_Wylde_Bar ... 18-dmr.htm. Price is $270 and includes the low profile gas block. White Oak Armament makes a similar barrel for $5 more: http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/p ... 250&page=1. For a little more, you can get a similar barrel but with a mid-length gas port for $300. My son has one on his SPR and it is crazy accurate.

All three have an excellent reputation for accuracy and quality. All three are stainless steel and Wylde chambered with a 1:8 twist. And for what you get, $270-$300 is fairly "affordable".

As far as the difference floating the barrel makes, think of it this way. If you are measuring how you cut your wood when framing a house, you could be 1/8" off at one corner, and 2" off at the other corner. Things have a way of compounding. If your gun shoots 2 MOA, that is 1" groups at 50 yards; 2" groups at 100 yards; 4" groups at 200 yards; 6" groups at 300 yards; and 8" groups at 400 yards.......a small inaccuracy that screws things up at longer ranges.

Free floating will improve most (but not all) barrels, but if you want great accuracy for the platform, you have to have a great barrel. It's the bedrock upon which everything else is built. Everything else is window dressing that may increase reliability or sighting or comfort, etc., but a great barrel is foundational.

All of this assumes that you are trying to build some kind of DMR/SPR, which would be weighted toward target shooting, hunting, sniping. If you're interested in something more of a plinker/CQB/home defense rifle, then a great barrel becomes less important than handling characteristics, light weight, short length, chrome lining, etc.

[cb1000rider]

Thank you.. Note that neither are fluted, but I don't think I care.
Can you recommend an upper assembly (stripped upper receiver)? I believe I should stick to A3 type for 100+ yrd optics?
It looks like the other parts that I need (ignoring the lower for now):
* tube handguard (need floating)
* gas block
* gas tube
* Charge handle + spring + latch
* ejection pin/latch
* forward assist assemby
* bolt/carrier/key/firing pin

I assume some of this stuff I can get in an upper kit of some type?

And again, many thanks for the pre-purchase education..

[cb1000rider]

After choosing a barrel, it looks like I make the following choices (again, ignoring the lower):
* A stripped upper (I need A3 style)
* A upper parts kit
* Handguard (rifle length, floating)
* Gas block - low-profile if I want a floating hand guard
* Gas tube - must be appropriate to "rifle" barrel length and handguard

[The Annoyed Man]

After choosing a barrel, it looks like I make the following choices (again, ignoring the lower):
* A stripped upper (I need A3 style)
* A upper parts kit
* Handguard (rifle length, floating)
* Gas block - low-profile if I want a floating hand guard
* Gas tube - must be appropriate to "rifle" barrel length and handguard

You've basically already answered a couple of the questions you asked in the first of your last two posts.

Yes, a flat-top upper receiver is necessary. You can always mount a carrying handle/rear sight combo if you want to by mounting it to the rail, but a rail is necessary.

An upper parts kit should include all the springs, pins, detents, flaps, forward assist, etc., etc., that would be needed to have a complete upper receiver.

Purchase the charging handle separately if you want a good one. I highly recommend the Rainier Arms Raptor: http://www.amazon.com/Rainier-Arms-Raptor/dp/B009KMH3M2. They are pricey, but they are nice, and they are easy on the hands.

Gas tubes are cheap. So are gas blocks. You do want a low profile gas block if you're going to put it under the rail.

BCG = the entire bolt carrier group, including the complete bolt. You can buy bolt and carrier separately if you want. Make sure you buy mil spec on the BCG, particularly with a properly staked gas key with grade 8 fasteners. Almost any coating will do from a function standpoint, but NiB and NiPh plated parts will wear better, maintain better lubricity, and be easier to clean after a long day at the range. I was surprised at just how much easier cleaning was after having my BCG NiPh plated. OTH, remember that the military doesn't plate their BCGs, and they fire many many more rounds that we do, and their bolts work just fine for the most part. It's one of those "hey, if you can afford the little bit extra for plating, might as well do it" kind of things.

One note...... IF you buy a plated BCG AND a nitromet coated gas tube like I did (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/ga ... 54919.aspx), you may have to take some fine grit paper to the tip of the gas tube so that it will fit into the gas key.......otherwise the OD of the tube may be an interference fit with the ID of the gas key, and you don't want that. It may not be an issue for you, but it is something to watch out for if you do go that way.

[cb1000rider]

OK, here's where I'm at on the "build it" suggestion:
BCM mil-spec BCG (Parkerized exterior and chrome lined inside carrier) $169 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Bolt ... uto-mp.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BCM Charge handle (5.56/223) - Mod3, large $45.00 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-GUNF ... -3-556.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
BCM Upper Assembly - M4 style - Mil Spec, Anodized, $119 http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-Uppe ... -ur-m4.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
White oaks 18" SRP barrell (18") 1:7 twist - 5.56/.223, .750 gas block $275 - http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/p ... 250&page=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
White oaks mid length gas tube - $10 - http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/p ... at=&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
White oak stainless gas block .750 - $35.00 - http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/xcart/p ... at=&page=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MOE composite rifle length hand guard - $38 - http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-M ... %20blk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
MOE composite 5-slot rail - $6.00 - http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Magpul-M ... %20blk.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
= $697

These are the parts to build something "equivalent" to the BCG upper receiver group that I spec'd orginally - $745 (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-SS41 ... vtrx13.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). With the build above, I use a composite hand guard, versus the aluminum one that comes with the BCG assembly. So I'm not sure that I come out ahead... One plus is I learn to assemble it, but that assumes everything works together well.

What do you think?

[The Annoyed Man]

I think those are mostly good choices. I'm not sure what's to be gained by a SS gas block, but on the other hand it's not that more expensive than a regular one, and it can't hurt, so that's not a big deal.

May I ask why you went with their 1:7 mid length on an 18" barrel instead of their 1:8 rifle length on an 18" barrel? Either will serve you well, and accuracy ought to be about the same, but the one with the rifle length gas system will have a very slightly softer recoil impulse. I was just curious.

The MOE handguard does NOT free float the barrel, and therefore it may negatively affect accuracy. On the other hand, it doesn't break the bank either, and you can always swap it out later.

[cb1000rider]

Continued thanks.

I like stainless as a material. Easy to clean, etc. As you mentioned, not any more expensive in this case.
I chose the gas block wrong... I should chose rifle length.
I didn't catch that the MOE handguard doesn't free-float. Thank you.
It looks like to do free floating rifle length - I'm looking at $125 or more... That takes me to above the cost of buying it as an assembly from BCG.

If I build it as above, am I coming out ahead in terms of better components and accuracy? I read that BCG's stuff has a great reputation.