AR-15 (build) recommendations

[cb1000rider]

As most of my gun-nut friends have closets full of rifles, I've decided to get with the program and see what all the fuss is about.

I'd like to build.. Key word is build - an AR-15. I know I can likely buy a quality firearm for the same (or perhaps less) than it's going to cost to build from scratch and save myself a bunch of time, but I'd like to build it so I know and understand every detail.

Of the several people that I know who have built ARs, 2/3 of them have experienced issues with poorly machined parts. They eventually get them sorted out, but I'd like to avoid that (if possible)... IE - I'm not looking for a "great deal" - I care about getting it right the first time.

So I'm seeking recommendations on reasonable quality - meaning high machine tolerance lowers and associated parts kits... And whatever else I'll need. I don't need billet. Machined is fine.

Eventually the firearm would be a longer-range rifle, Apparently the 20" barrel is optimum for velocity. I can worry about the optics and such later.

[LDB415]

I've never built one but am researching them now for purchase. For your interest in building a rifle check out Bravo Company along with anything else you do.

[Scott B.]

There are so many manufacturers now it is a struggle. Do shop around, you won't lack for choices.

I've had great luck with Del-Ton quality and prices.

I prefer to buy the upper complete and build out the lower, but understand the desire to do the entire thing.

Beware, once you build one you may never stop tinkering with it or building new ones.

[cb1000rider]

Yea, the availability of choices is why I'm asking. I was told that there are really only 4 manufacturers of the lower, but that they do get branded.
Thanks for the Del-Ton recommendation.

[NorthTexas]

I've "built" (assembled a lower and then attached a purchased, complete upper) a couple but I'm certainly no expert. I can second the recommendation for Bravo Company USA, I used their mil-spec buffer tube kit and have been very happy with it. The difference between mil-spec buffer tubes and commercial buffer tubes, and the related collapsible stock fitment, is something you might want to look into.

I used Palmetto State Armory for both of my uppers and probably a few random parts I don't recall. Their shipping is pretty slow, but otherwise I highly recommend them both for quality and prices. Most of their barrels (possibly entire uppers, I don't recall for sure) are manufactured by FN, chrome lined and cold hammer forged, on the same equipment making military contract rifles, they just put the Palmetto name on them.

I've heard the bolt carrier group referred to as the heart of an AR, I wouldn't scrimp here. I used Palmetto BCGs, but Bravo Company also offers great ones. Things you may wish to look for in a BCG are full-auto/M16 profile (no, it won't make your AR full auto and there's no paperwork required to purchase - it just has a bit more mass to it, and some people think that makes them more durable and better functioning), high pressure tested (hpt) and mag particle inspected (mpi), a properly staked gas key (google pictures for this), and possibly a coating or plating on the carrier that will make cleaning easier later on.

For lower parts kits, I've used both CMMG and DPMS. I don't recall any quality differences between them, but for a first-time builder, I definitely recommend CMMG. Their parts kits are sorted in color coded bags to help you identify all the different little springs, pins, etc, and they have better installation instructions (including a great online installation video).

If you want to install back up iron sights that flip down, I'm very happy with the Troy Industries variety. I've read mixed reviews of the polymer Magpul variety, some say they don't hold zero very well, others say they work just fine.

I don't have any suggestions from personal experience for you on lower receivers. I used two really oddball receivers that I don't think you'd be able to easily find for sale, so I won't bother talking about them. I have read great things about Palmetto State's receivers, and I'll probably use one of theirs if I build another AR. I've heard that same thing about there only being 4 manufacturers of lowers and the rest being rebranded, but I suspect (with no evidence) that there are a lot more small machine shops producing lowers now. I know a local gun shop offers billet lowers in their name that I think are produced locally.

Also, if you want to support a Texas company, I've heard great things about LaRue Tactical, but I have no personal experience with their products.

[The Annoyed Man]

My current builds both have decent parts, but I've built ARs out of the (allegedly) junk brand parts too, and I've never run into "poorly machined parts" that refuse to fit together. It's always been remarkably easy.

I think you are smart to build your own. There is no better way to A) get familiar with how it all goes together and works; and B) to gain an appreciation for Eugene Stoner's brilliance as a rifle designer.

Price-wise, if you build your own, and assuming that you use the same parts that go into a store-bought rifle, you WILL save money by building your own. What I've personally experienced is that the price difference gave me some leeway to upgrade handsomely, and so in the end, I'm not sure that I save much money......unless it is compared against the real high-end name brands, where you're paying the name as much as anything else.

[FL450]

Last year I couldnt even spell AR and had only shot 2 rounds out of one years earlier when I decided to build one ( Upper and lower). It came out just as envisioned and went bang the first time and every time since.
I spent 6 months researching the forums to learn all the details. I then decided where I wanted to put my money and where it didnt matter. I was able to find out all the information I needed without even 1 post.
The take away is dont be afraid to tackle an upper and lower. Building the gun was the easy part, deciding what parts to use with the thousands of choices out there was the hard part.

[The Annoyed Man]

FL450 is right about doing your research. You will end up with a better rifle than you thought you could afford, but you will also probably end up spending more than you had originally anticipated. But the good news is that now that you know how to take one apart and put it back together again, if you decide you don't grok the end result, now you know how to swap out for the parts you really wanted. There is a market for used AR parts, although like anything else you likely won't get back what you paid for it, but you can also choose to keep it and build something else with it later. The 1:9 ER Shaw M4 barrel that is on my wife's carbine came off of my original AR build and was laying around in a box 'o parts.

Regarding supporting local companies, the gun store my son works at sells their own branded billet receivers which are manufactured locally. And my current build employs a matched set of billet receiver halves from S.W.A.T. Firearms in Campbell, Texas. They were a gift from my son, who said that they were pretty affordable. They are fully mil-spec and hard anodized, and have an integrated cold weather trigger guard. Mine came Cerakoted in FDE.

I've heard that mil-spec buffer tubes are stronger than commercial, but I've never had to butt-stroke an enemy's skull, so I've never had a problem with the commercial tubes on my rifles, and I believe that they are marginally lighter. But I don't have any prejudice one way or the other. I think I originally bought commercial tubes because that was what was available at the time. I might give mil-spec tubes a try on my next build.

For iron sights, my current build has Magpul Pro sights, and as a matched set I think these are my favorites so far because of A) the ease with which you can dial in elevation on the front sight without any tools, and B) how compact and easy to use they are. I will say this.... If you go with a standard A2 front sight matched to a flip up rear sight, I HIGHLY recommend the A.R.M.S. #40L-P rear sight. They are pricey....around $120-$130 or so.....but that's less than you would pay for a pair of front and rears, and I believe them to be the very best rear sight there is in a rear BUIS.

I wish I had back every dollar I ever spent on optics I ended up not really liking that much. Decide first what will be your primary use of this rifle, and then buy accordingly......but don't skimp on quality! I have found that, as I age and my eyes deteriorate, magnification has become really important. For a long time, I was fine with an EOTech and a 3x magnifier. But I'm basically worthless beyond 50 yards with less than 4x. I got a very good deal on a 4x ACOG at a gun show, and I LOVE that scope. If you train yourself to shoot with both eyes open, it works in CQB as well. I also recently acquired a Vortex 4-16x50 Viper PST for longer range shooting, and I love that one too. Both scopes were fairly expensive....between $900-$1,000 each....but they are absolutely worth it, and I'll never get rid of either.

Like all of the other buying decisions, intended use should inform your choice of barrel and other components. Some decisions will make your life easier. ARs, as the saying goes, poop where they eat. Not long ago I took advantage of an opportunity to have my BCG nickel-phosphate coated, and I shot the rifle with the plated parts for the first time just a couple of weeks ago. The plating made cleanup a cinch. The bolt parts wiped spotlessly clean with a rag, with one exception. There was some caked on carbon build up on the tail of the bolt, but it scraped right off with a plastic brush, leaving a pristine plated finish. I strongly recommend investing in a plated BCG.

[FL450]

Last year I couldnt even spell AR and had only shot 2 rounds out of one years earlier when I decided to build one ( Upper and lower). It came out just as envisioned and went bang the first time and every time since.
I spent 6 months researching the forums to learn all the details. I then decided where I wanted to put my money and where it didnt matter. I was able to find out all the information I needed without even 1 post.
The take away is dont be afraid to tackle an upper and lower. Building the gun was the easy part, deciding what parts to use with the thousands of choices out there was the hard part.

Some of the following are the components I wanted to invest my money into
I was going to post last night but 22 hours awake caught up to me so I kept my post short.
Barrel: NDT/MPI tested and Dimpled for the gas block set screw. I felt NDT/MP testing was criticle for barrel and bolt carrier

Bolt Carrier Group NDT/ MPI tested- I used a full auto for mass and Nickel Boran coated for ease of cleaning, I am not sure how well this works as I have not cleaned mine yet.

Trigger- Geissele GS2 2 stage trigger(like SSA trigger but cheaer, Uses differant hammer pin and not every unit is inspected). I felt the trigger as the direct human/machine interface was impotant to give a good feel and feedback. The GS2 didnt break the bank and many have said they cant tell the differance from the SSA and My shooting isnot good enough to tell but the feal is great.

Fore Arm- I chose a YHM customizable free float- The tube it self is light and You can choose the size rails and place them where you need them to keep the weight down. Mounting holes are 45 degrees apart for off set sights ot lights. I have a rifle length om a 16" barral so if I install back up sights They will have a longer site radius for better accuracy.
The other advantage is since the fore arm is only attached to one end so as the barral heats up the fore arm you can slide your hand forward so you dont need to don gloves.
I have read they a free float puts less torsion on the barrel thus better accuracy but that was not a reason for using a free float since I am not near that good for this to make a differance.

The rest of the parts I just bought the best deal and parts like the stock, buffer and spring I can upgrade later if desired.

Hope this perspective from an AR newbe helps.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

A lower can be assembled from parts without any specialty tools, an upper requires a vice block and barrel wrench. I use PSA LPKs but prefer them without a trigger group because a mil-spec trigger isn't the smoothest option out there. Palmetto gets a lot of complaints on their shipping time and customer service, but their products are excellent quality. If you don't mind waiting two weeks to a month for your parts and like a good deal, I highly suggest them. I would get a lower at a gun show unless you can get it transferred for $5-10. By them time you pay shipping and transfer fees, you can buy one at a gun show. Do a couple and you won't even need instructions to assemble one.

[cb1000rider]

Thanks guys.. keep the suggestions coming (if anyone has them). I especially appreciate the advice about coatings (for cleaning/etc) and tools that I'll need for appropriate assembly.

In terms of order vs gun show - ordering, even though more expensive, saves me time and travel... I appreciate pointing out that I'd save a buck there.

[The Annoyed Man]

I have read they a free float puts less torsion on the barrel thus better accuracy but that was not a reason for using a free float since I am not near that good for this to make a differance.

It isn't torsion, since there isn't really any torsion applied to a non-floated barrel. Free-floating the barrel simply means that nothing forward of the barrel nut is exerting any angular pressure on the barrel, across the axis of the bore. The reason to free-float a barrel is to keep the forend from interfering with the barrel harmonics as the barrel heats up. If something is interfering with the barrel downstream of the barrel's attachment to the receiver, by pressing on the barrel at a 90º angle to the bore (as could happen when the stock presses against the barrel in a non-floated rifle), then as the barrel heats, the point of impact will shift. This is not universally true, but it is generally true. MOST accurized rifles (bolt-action, AR15, etc.) will have a free-floated barrel. Again, this is not ALWAYS true. There are some accurized rifles that benefit from pressure exerted by the stock/forend against the barrel, but that is something that a custom rifle builder might "tune" into the rifle. For 99% of applications, free-floating will always yield a more accurate rifle.

And to phrase it more......accurately.....free-floating will produce a more accurate rifle under barrel heating than a non-floated barrel, but not necessarily with a cold-bore. Assuming all other factors to be be equal between two otherwise identical and properly zeroed rifles, a cold-bore shot out of a floated barrel would be no more inherently accurate than a cold-bore shot out of a non-floated barrel. That changes 3-4 rounds later as soon as the barrel begins to heat. The point of impact on the non-floated barrel will shift, but the floated barrel's will not.

I had a 12.5 YHM "Lightweight" rail on my previous build. It's a decent product, but the 15" Samson Evolution forend on my current build weighs considerably less than the 12.5" "Lightweight" YHM unit.

[FL450]

I guess my termanology was off and thank you TAM for the explanation on the interaction of FF vs standard.

[gigag04]

I'd check Rainier arms for deals if I was building an AR today. Their brand labeled stuff is pretty good, and more original than Spikes or PSA lowers/uppers which are the usual heavy hitters for a decent budget gun.

[cajunautoxer]

what"s you price range? Some peoples idea of budget could be another person's dream ar