Recommendations for .308

[LTUME1978]

A few comments for consideration. 308 will get to 1000 yards but not real well. You will need to use the 175 grain bullet as the 168 will become unstable at 700-800 yards. I was at a long range class a couple of weeks ago (taught in east Texas). Everyone there but myself was shooting a 308 and many had semi autos (all AR type). They struggled with accuracy compared to a bolt gun. The guy I was paired up with had one and it would experience a point of impact shift when the barrel warmed up. They also seemed to have more of a problem with cold bore vs hot bore point of impact shift. I don't know that I would consider a semi auto 308 good for much more than 500 yards based on what I saw at the class. I was shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor Savage bolt gun. Took the cold bore shot contest first thing on the second morning with that rig. It ran out to 800 yards with ease (I have taken it to 1000 yards and it will go further but I don't have a place to shoot further than 1000 yards). Only one other person that had a 308 attempted to shoot 800 yards and he had a GA Precision bolt gun with a Steiner scope on it (and he knew how to shoot the rifle). When we all shot at 300 yards (with our 100 yard zero), the 308s were dropping 13-14 inches. The 6.5 dropped 8.5 inches. That will give an idea of what a higher ballistic coefficient will get you with the 6.5 when trying to go long range.

After talking with the instructor, and knowing what you are wanting, I would recommend a bolt gun instead of a semi auto. Remington and Savage both make a 20 inch barreled 308 that are nice (the two guys to the right on me on the line both had the Remingtons and they shot well). Might not get you to 1000 yards but they will do a good job (takes a lot of training and practice to shoot out that far and hit something). If you are wanting 1000 yards, look at something in 6.5 (creed moor, 260, etc) or a 300 win mag. The 300 win mag will pound your shoulder and it will eat barrels but it will also get you out to 1000 yards an beyond. The instructor for our class (former Delta Force) told us he shot a 300 win mag when he was a sniper in the Delta Force. They were required to change the barrels every 1500 rounds. He reported a 308 would go 6000-8000 rounds. He had a short barreled 308 bolt gun that he was shooting at the class and made a case for having one of those rifles. I won't get rid of my long, heavy barreled 6.5 but I will start saving my nickels for a short barreled bolt gun.

[ShootDontTalk]

LTUME1978

Good post. 1000 is intimidating and puts a strain on everything - shooter included. I agree about the semi's. As you indicate, the 308 will go to 1000 but only with the 175 match or VLD hand loads. Much easier with the 6's or 6.5's. Is there any commercial ammo available, or is that strictly a hand load affair?

I am impressed with the modular 308 AR platforms. I've shot several non-modular ones out to 500, but just didn't see that much, if anything over my CMP rifle, at least for accuracy. Little more tricky for wind, but the 223 VLD's are getting a lot better while still having to be fed one round at a time. Sadly I guess my 1000 yard days are about over, unless they make some really amazing optics.


Edit to add: a really high quality 22LR at 200 is equally challenging as 1000. I love my little CZ452 heavy barrel. Put a $50 dollar trigger, 20 MOA scope mount with good rings, and a mid range target scope and I have a ball. Course finding 22 is a bit of a stretch now days. Almost forgot to the OP: GAP makes an excellent AR type 308.

[AlaskanInTexas]

A few comments for consideration. 308 will get to 1000 yards but not real well. You will need to use the 175 grain bullet as the 168 will become unstable at 700-800 yards. I was at a long range class a couple of weeks ago (taught in east Texas). Everyone there but myself was shooting a 308 and many had semi autos (all AR type). They struggled with accuracy compared to a bolt gun. The guy I was paired up with had one and it would experience a point of impact shift when the barrel warmed up. They also seemed to have more of a problem with cold bore vs hot bore point of impact shift. I don't know that I would consider a semi auto 308 good for much more than 500 yards based on what I saw at the class. I was shooting a 6.5 Creedmoor Savage bolt gun. Took the cold bore shot contest first thing on the second morning with that rig. It ran out to 800 yards with ease (I have taken it to 1000 yards and it will go further but I don't have a place to shoot further than 1000 yards). Only one other person that had a 308 attempted to shoot 800 yards and he had a GA Precision bolt gun with a Steiner scope on it (and he knew how to shoot the rifle). When we all shot at 300 yards (with our 100 yard zero), the 308s were dropping 13-14 inches. The 6.5 dropped 8.5 inches. That will give an idea of what a higher ballistic coefficient will get you with the 6.5 when trying to go long range.

After talking with the instructor, and knowing what you are wanting, I would recommend a bolt gun instead of a semi auto. Remington and Savage both make a 20 inch barreled 308 that are nice (the two guys to the right on me on the line both had the Remingtons and they shot well). Might not get you to 1000 yards but they will do a good job (takes a lot of training and practice to shoot out that far and hit something). If you are wanting 1000 yards, look at something in 6.5 (creed moor, 260, etc) or a 300 win mag. The 300 win mag will pound your shoulder and it will eat barrels but it will also get you out to 1000 yards an beyond. The instructor for our class (former Delta Force) told us he shot a 300 win mag when he was a sniper in the Delta Force. They were required to change the barrels every 1500 rounds. He reported a 308 would go 6000-8000 rounds. He had a short barreled 308 bolt gun that he was shooting at the class and made a case for having one of those rifles. I won't get rid of my long, heavy barreled 6.5 but I will start saving my nickels for a short barreled bolt gun.

Thanks for the input. I already have bolt guns (including a .300 win mag) for real long range. I am just looking for something that can reach out a little further than my .223, but with the fun of the semi auto.

[JSThane]

Springfield M1A?
HK / PTR 91?
AR-type target platform of some sort?

[cajunautoxer]

Dpms has a new 308 that looks promising. I have a buddy that just got his in. Haven't heard a report yet on it

[SQLGeek]

I'd go for something in the M1A line myself but I'm a sucker for those types of rifles.

You could always pick up an M1 chambered in .308.

I haven't priced .308 ammo in a while, it's nice to see it coming down from the astronomical >= $1.00/round it was.

[boxermoose]

Old school......just picked up a DSA FAL with a 18"barrel - chucked 110 rds of M80 ball thru it yetserday



It was hard to decide between it and a M1a scout

[Skiprr]

I've never been a long-range shooter; all my riles are configured more for CQB than distance. So I can't really comment about 500-yard-plus distances. I seldom even try 400 yards at paper.

But I did, five years ago, pick up what has become my go-to utility rifle, a POF .308 with a 16.5-inch barrel; the one I'd keep if I had to give up all my other semi-auto rifles. The photos are old, and before Troy flip-ups front and rear, an EOTech and flip-to-side magnifier, Harris bipod, and Spec-Ops sling. But the rifle looks just the same:







It's a gas-piston system on a Stoner platform. Shoots soft, cool, and clean. It was a 17-month wait after I placed the order before I received the rifle, but I'd do it again. A friend has a LaRue OBR that came with a similar wait time, and he wouldn't trade his, either.

There was a good article in the Fall 2012 issue of Combat Tactics about the California Department of Fish & Game's choice to outfit their 400 wardens with the POF .308. Tested and evaluated were: FNH SCAR Heavy, Knights Armament SR25, LMT MWS, LaRue Stealth OBR, LRB Arms M1A Tanker, LWRC REPR, and the POF. Testing consisted of over 4,000 rounds of Federal 169-grain bonded through each candidate, followed a few weeks later by a two-day endurance test of 6,000 rounds for each of the finalists.

Current MSRP is about $3,200; I paid less for mine. https://www.pof-usa.com/16.5-p308-black.html

Good luck choosing your new rifle.

[TEA]

LRB or JRA M14 or M25 or M21.

http://www.lrbarms.com/m14riflesstandard.html

http://www.jamesriverarmory.com/rockola-m-14.html

[gigag04]

Skiprr - how's the grouping?

Our sharpshooters at my previous dept got 2 longer barreled .308 POFs, and ended up returning them because they wouldn't dial in. I was shocked.

Probably fine for CQB, but was curious if the shorter barrel had any issues. I've generally been a huge fan of all of their stuff, but been on the fence since hearing of the return.

[MechAg94]

I know a guy who is building a 308 AR10 right now. I am waiting to see what sort of accuracy he gets before thinking of my future with an AR10.

As for bolt guns, I like them, but the heavy long range bolt guns just never excited me much. The shorter patrol or scout rifles get my attention far more. I am waiting to get a better look at the Mossberg 308 bolty that takes DPMS 20 round mags.

On another note, the M14 platform is an excellent rifle depending on what you want. My Springfield M1A isn't set up as a target rifle, but it will feed just about any kind of 308 whether new or surplus. Some AR10's will choke on surplus ammo.

[CenTex]

If you are not into plastic and black then look at the Browning Lever Rifle Gold Medallion, the strength of a bolt action and the speed of a lever. a beautiful gun in stainless and Walnut.

I found one after a long search several months ago. I planned on scoping it but after I received the gun I fell in love with the iron sights.

[MeMelYup]

If you already have an AR-15 and want longer range, build yourself another upper in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. They are both good out to 1K. If you build it yourself it will be custom built and unique for you as you can make it exactly the way you want it. That way you will also have 2firearms that utilize 1 lower so all you will need to do is change uppers and magazines. Also, the 6.5 and 6.8 are great for hunting.

[ShootDontTalk]

If you already have an AR-15 and want longer range, build yourself another upper in 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC. They are both good out to 1K. If you build it yourself it will be custom built and unique for you as you can make it exactly the way you want it. That way you will also have 2firearms that utilize 1 lower so all you will need to do is change uppers and magazines. Also, the 6.5 and 6.8 are great for hunting.

I've had a 6.8 SPC II for a long time now. I have to disagree about the 1K usefulness. It is not designed for that - contrary to what most people think. It was designed to overcome the lethality issues caused by short barrel .223's. It is a 400 yard cartridge. It really shines in very short barrel rifles. A quick browse of 6.8 bullet coefficients will reveal nothing even remotely resembling a long range bullet. Hunting? Absolutely. One thousand yards? Rainbow trajectory and supersonic transition instability at much less. If you want long range in an AR length receiver, go 6.5 Grendel.

[Skiprr]

Skiprr - how's the grouping?

Our sharpshooters at my previous dept got 2 longer barreled .308 POFs, and ended up returning them because they wouldn't dial in. I was shocked.

Probably fine for CQB, but was curious if the shorter barrel had any issues. I've generally been a huge fan of all of their stuff, but been on the fence since hearing of the return.

MOA at 100 yards, which is typically about as far as I shoot it. No doubt sub-MOA mechanical accuracy. At that distance I don't notice a difference from cold or warm barrel, but I do see some spread at 200. Even though mine's setup as a CQB rifle, it's sighted in on a cold barrel.

So I'm probably the wrong guy to ask. I'll never be one to try to shoot a half-dollar at 500 yards.

As an aside, one of the happy results of the POF is that it eats seemingly everything. I was concerned about ammo pickiness when I bought it, but I've fed it everything from Hornady 150-grain SST hunting rounds and Winchester "White Box" 7.62 147-grain rounds to new Prvi Partisan FMJ and milsurp German and South African ammo. I've had two failures-to-feed with Monarch rounds out of the same steel DPMS mag. I retired that magazine and for the past couple of years I've used only Magpul mags, and haven't had a failure since. That said, with the price of ammo what it's been I only put around 250 or so rounds through the POF each year. At the distances I shoot, mine seems to be most accurate with 150-grain bullets.

There's no perfect firearm. You always need one more...