30.06 Countermeasures

[Tristor]

Specifically, what I'm referring to is as below:

(3) "Concealed handgun" means a handgun, the presence of which
is not openly discernible to the ordinary observation of a reasonable person.

(5) "Handgun" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.01, Penal
Code.

(5) "Handgun" means any firearm that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one hand.

(10) "Short-barrel firearm" means a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or a shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, or any weapon made from a shotgun or rifle if, as altered, it has an overall length of less than 26 inches.

This pretty clearly (above) establishes that the CHL only allows for the concealed carrying of a handgun, as it is a concealed handgun license, and handgun is defined as a firearm made, designed, or adapted to be fired with one-hand (which the serbu super shorty /might/ qualify for). But also that a short-barreled firearm is specifically any rifle or shotgun that does not meet federal length minimums or has a reduced overall length. Since the Serbu Super Shorty is an AOW with a barrel length of 6.5" with an overall length of 16.5" it would qualify as a Short-barreled shotgun (since it fires shotgun rounds by means of a shotgun type action) under Texas Statutes.

(a) A license holder commits an offense if
the license holder:
(1) carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter
411, Government Code, on property of another without effective
consent; and
(2) received notice that:
(A) entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed
handgun was forbidden; or
(B) remaining on the property with a concealed handgun was
forbidden and failed to depart.

Everyone has already seen this, but it clearly establishes, as we already know, that the 30.06 only applies to CHL holders while carrying a weapon defined as a concealed handgun above (which an AOW probably does not count as).

(a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control.
(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:
(1) the handgun is in plain view; or
(2) the person is:
(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic;
(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or
(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.
(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.
(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.

This bit of legislation clearly shows that open-carry of a /handgun/ is not legal, although it doesn't mention any other types of firearms.

<snipping quote>

Since this is getting long, I'm just going to point out that this section reinforces the above, open-carry of a handgun is not legal in Texas either on your person or in your vehicle, and additional penalties apply to CHL holders.



Unfortunately, the above all seems to apply exclusively to handguns, not to AOWs or SBS/SBRs, even though they are defined. So I'm not really getting anywhere by reading the statutes, it appears they have nothing to say either way about the carrying of AOWs. My primary concern is that the license for concealed carry only allows for concealing a handgun, and I don't see anything in Texas law that would specifically allow general concealed-carry of any non-licensed (i.e. non-handgun) weapons. My understanding is that in Texas, conceal-carrying other weapons besides a handgun is not legal (unlike Florida).

So, I'm still not understanding how it's legal, although I don't see anywhere where it's specifically illegal either. I am obviously no lawyer, I'm just reading the statutes and they seem to be written in rather plain English as such things go, but are vague enough to leave the question open.

So I guess, is this more of a grey-area type thing that hasn't been tested, so if for some reason you had to use your AOW in self-defense inside a 30.06 location, you'd be the "lucky" one to end up being the test-case for the legality? Note, I haven't really investigated any Texas case law in this matter, I wasn't quite that bored yet this Saturday afternoon.

[Tristor]

Right, I understand the legal definitions of handgun. My concern is that the statute that allows concealed carry of a handgun, does not allow concealed carry of any firearm other than a handgun

It doesn't prohibit it either. I'm not aware of any Texas law prohibiting carrying concealed firearms, such as rifles and shotguns, in general (except for security guards on duty, and perhaps some other special cases) nor am I aware of any Texas statutes prohibiting concealing weapons such as pocket knives.

and since open carry is not legal in Texas

Open carry of handguns has some issues because of 46.035 but I'm not aware of any Texas law prohibiting openly carried weapons in general, such as rifles, shotguns, 4" hunting knives, etc.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer

Yeah, see, that's my issue as well. There's nothing specifically allowing it, or specifically disallowing it. While I'd love to be the guy that presumes the best (i.e. that it not being illegal makes it legal), unfortunately the maze of the US courts doesn't really allow that, because some obscure case law might possibly disallow this or be used to disallow this. i.e., even if it's not illegal, if you get caught you might still get arrested and screwed over by some over-zealous DA.

My interest in this is obvious though. If this /is/ legal, then obviously it's a better idea to carry a shell bag and should sling with a serbu super shorty than it is to carry a handgun, not to mention no license required (theoretically). If I had a choice in a gun-fight between a shotgun (even with only 4 rounds in the mag) and a handgun, I'd always take the shotgun.

EDIT: Even if this isn't the case, the ATF determination that the AK Draco's /are/ indeed pistols, and I believe they would also classify as pistols under Texas law would mean you could potentially conceal-carry something like an AK-Draco with a 50-round drum mag on a single-point sling under a trench coat with your CHL. That's definitely not a bad addition to a gunfight either (if you're already looking for stuff that requires a coat to cover up). It wouldn't get around the 30.06 provision though.

[apostate]

Yeah, see, that's my issue as well. There's nothing specifically allowing it, or specifically disallowing it.

Same as JHP ammo (in Texas) or breathing, for that matter.

[RPB]

I don't recall who it was, but I believe someone on this forum saw a new 30.06 sign on their bank, so he left his handgun in the car and carried in his AK-47 or something. The bank manager came over, they had a discussion, and the 30.06 sign came down.

The only places longarms are prohibited are where "firearms" are prohibited as far as I know.
A prohibition on handguns isn't a prohibition on longarms/knives/pepper spray/steel toed boots/crowbars/screwdrivers/canes/broken whiskey bottles/5-foot long keychains/6-cell flashlights/pillows......

Additionally there is no law saying longarms/knives/pepper spray/steel toed boots/crowbars/screwdrivers/canes/broken whiskey bottles/5-foot long keychains/6-cell flashlights/pillows...... must be concealed.

I don't recall how many times I heard the Criminal law professor (an attorney) say "If it isn't in the Penal Code, it isn't a crime"
( Ok, don't give him points for accuracy, his statement is flawed, but his meaning was that if there is no law against it anywhere, it isn't a crime )

I carried a broke-open loaded double barrel shotgun around town walking down busy streets in Houston near downtown (Westheimer and around Montrose area etc) daily for years; police waived as they drove by usually. Once one stopped and asked if my shotgun was legal or too short, I said it's legal, he said ok, and drove off.

[ScottDLS]

Yeah, see, that's my issue as well. There's nothing specifically allowing it, or specifically disallowing it.

Same as JHP ammo (in Texas) or breathing, for that matter.

If you want to know whether you're allowed to do something, ask yourself the question... "What crime would I be charged with if I did it?". If there isn't a law saying you can't do it, then (legally) you can...

Also, my CHL isn't a "Get out of the NICS check when buying a rifle license...", but I can use it for that.

[Tristor]

In light of the above, I think I am going to accelerate my plans to acquire my Tromix Saiga-12 SBS and build an AR-15 (trunk guns). I would hope it wouldn't stir too horrible of a fuss if I stroll in someplace carrying a non-descript soft-sider (bull-dog) with an SBR inside concealed.