So I searched Lapua and .308 on Google

[philip964]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

[KC5AV]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

You can get a Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24x50 for $499 (suggested retail). By most estimates, it’s a very good scope. You can also likely find some very good scopes on the secondhand market for significantly less. There are always people looking to upgrade.

[patterson]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

I spent less than 300 for my Vortex Diamondback Tactical and its a decent scope with good glass. You dont have to spend over a $1000.00 on a rifle and scope to hit steel at a 1000 yards

[philip964]

I guess I can expect a knock on the door from ATF any minute now.

I also didn’t know what Polymer80 was and I searched for that as well.

My Facebook pages is now filled with laser bore sighted
Red dot scopes etc. etc.

I really think its too much of a hobby.

So I’ll ask Lapua vs .308 or 6.5 creedmore?

And is there any place near Houston to shoot these?

One of my retired Facebook friends posted this, seemed appealing.

How far do you actually need to shoot? I’m not a sooperdooper sniping shooter, but I have qualified at 800 yards with one of my .308s (a gussied up Remington 700). The retired MARSOC sniper who was training me at the time asked me a question.....

Him: how far out do you want to get today, TAM?

Me: if I could get out to 800, I’d be pretty happy. If I could get out to 1000, I’d be over the moon. But I think that’s about the practical limits of this rifle (pictured below).

Him: nah, I’ve had kills in Afghanistan at 1300 yards with a rifle very much like yours. A 1000 would not be a problem for your rifle.

The rifle is nothing fancy by today's standards, but it has "good bones" .... an accurate 26” heavy contour barrel, a good stock, a good aftermarket trigger, and good optics. My point is not to brag on my rifle, but to ask questions like: how far do you intend to shoot, what do you intend to shoot, and do you have the skill to wring out the performance that your rifle is capable of?


.338 Lapua is a dedicated rifleman's game......."dedicated" as in: absolutely committed to learning to wring out the best that it can offer, and being willing to pay the literal price of entry. Also, above and beyond the cost of the rifle, it’s a cartridge that you’ll not be able to get the best that it can offer without a significant investment in very good optics. It’s one thing to have a clear image at 1000 yards. It’s another entirely to have that clarity of image at 2000 yards. A $500 scope isn't going to get you there.

6.5 Creedmore is a great choice, the only problem being that ammo is still not quite as easily available and inexpensive as .308, which has the benefit of having been easily available in large quantities for about 70 years now. 6.5 Creedmore is still coming into its own. That said, it’s a solid choice; and had it been as easily and generally available as .308 back when I first got into high-powered rifles, I might easily have gone that route instead of investing in .308. And there is no question that the 6.5 is a better long range choice than .308 is. But again, how far do you want to reach out? To put things into perspective, the 800 yards I qualified at is just 80 yards short of half a mile. The next time you’re out driving around, watch your odometer to see how far a half mile actually is. It’s a LONG poke for the average rifleman. 1000 yards is for the better than average rifleman. Are you better than average? It’s an honest question, implying no judgement. It’s not a game that is for everybody.

.308..... not much to be said. It’s an honest cartridge that will outperform the capabilities of most shooters, in most rifles. COVID-19/Biden panicking aside, it’s generally and cheaply available in a broad range of loads....from milspec ball, to "hunting", to long range match. It responds very well to handloading. The optics that will enable you to maximize its capabilities are going to cost less than the optics that will get you out to 1300 and beyond—into the capabilities of the 6.5 Creedmore or the .338 Lapua.

I like the scope, what is the brand etc. Rifle does not look $250 though.

[Beiruty]

Lately, I am more or less more into LR (1200 yard) and (ULR max 2000 yards) shooting.

A factory 6mm CrdM from HOWA, or Savage, a Remington RPR with 26" would get you to 1200 yards with no problem at all.
My Howa 6mmCrdM 26" heavy barrel
https://photos.app.goo.gl/XCVzjdCioXTtRwMd9

If you would like to Step to 1600 yards or so, step up to 6.5 PRC or 300WM would do the job
My Savage Elite Precision would launch my handload, 225gr ELDM at 3,000fps from its 30" factory barrel. It has no problem going to 2,000 yards or so.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/3AfRZptd731D3hWv7

I have a Howa 308" rifle with 22" barrel. It is good rifle for 800 yards.
Howa 1500 light barrel with upgrades
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wnnRCmzWwoQBhHsb9

[Beiruty]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

Cheapest scope on any of my Bolt rifle is $900
Most Expensive is $3400

Almost all excellent optics dropped 50% in last year or so.

[Beiruty]

Hunting rifles, are shelf rifle, pick one with scope and go shoot.
On the other hand, LR target Rifle by itself is like 1/3 of the cost of the full rig with optics and "needed" accessories
$600-$800 rifle would end up $1500-$2000
$1700-$1800 rifle would end up around $4K

[Rafe]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

Cheapest scope on any of my Bolt rifle is $900
Most Expensive is $3400

Almost all excellent optics dropped 50% in last year or so.

I've been seeing the optics prices dropping, too. Just out of curiosity--and not to derail the topic; just the one question--what's your go-to glass for ultra-long range? Not that top-end scopes from Nightforce, Kahles, or Schmidt & Bender are exactly in my normal price range, but that doesn't mean I'm not window shopping.

[The Annoyed Man]

I like the scope, what is the brand etc. Rifle does not look $250 though.

The scope is a SWFA SS HD 5-20x50 Tactical 30mm Riflescope, $1,499.95. I also bought the TPS TSR machined steel rings (about $90 for the set) and a 20 MOA rail from them, but no longer remember the brand or price of the rail. The rifle is no longer manufactured, but it’s a Remington 700 VSF, which came with the tan HS Precision "varmint" profile stock. It was $850 from the old Sportsman’s Guide store in Lewisville. Add-ons include a Timney trigger (about $175 at the time) dialed down to 2.25 lbs, and an enlarged bolt knob.

Yes, you can see a target at 1000 yards with a $500 scope, but you won’t SEE the target like you will with a $1500+ scope of equal magnification. Vortex makes good scopes. I own two of them, both Viper PST's, one is a 2-10x and the other a 4-16x. There are reasons they cost a lot more than the less expensive lines of Vortex scopes, and it’s not just hype. For one thing, you get an FFP reticle instead of a SFP reticle. FFP causes the reticle to zoom in and out with the magnification. Thus, the stadia markings are valid at all magnifications. SFP scopes have a reticle that does not change with magnification, and thus the hash marks are valid at only one magnification (typically at full mag). Contrary to popular belief, full magnification can actually complicate things unless it’s really called for. You also get better glass in the higher priced scope lines within the Vortex brand. And by the way, although I prefer the reticles in my pretty nice Vortex scopes, their glass isn’t quite as clear at longer range than the glass in my more expensive SWFA scope.

My son was shooting on the long distance range at ETTS with his bros the other day. His $850 Savage 10FP-HS Precision has a $450 high magnification scope on it. He could see the steel plates at 1000-1300 yards, but he could not SEE them. My son is an excellent shot, but he is a bit of a miser. His comment when he got home: "I gotta get a better scope." He made the common mistake of buying insufficient glass for the use he had intended. Quality of glass is a measurable thing that gives a dramatic performance improvement, but you can’t really know or quantify how much better it is until you actually experience it. You have to see it yourself with your own eyes. A <$500 scope is perfectly fine for hunting, even out to 300 yards if that’s your game. But I can guarantee you that, magnification levels being equal, you’ll see that mule deer against its color- matching background far more clearly with a $1500 scope than you will with a $500 scope, if that’s important to you. And if you can’t see it clearly despite the magnification, then the ethical thing to do is to wait until it comes closer......IF it comes closer. Cheaper optics translate into missed opportunities, regardless of whether you’re talking hunting, long range target shooting, or sniping.

If you’re looking for entry level, buy the cheaper scope. Just realize that if you develop a passion for shooting at longer ranges, you’re going to eventually regret the purchase, and pony up for a better one and you’ll have spent more money than if you’d just gone for it from the start. OTH, if you do end up buying two scopes, you’ll be left with one that you can put on a truck gun or something like that. Again, that’s just my 2¢.

[Beiruty]

All great. You guys are the best.

$500 is a cheap scope! Oh lord.

Cheapest scope on any of my Bolt rifle is $900
Most Expensive is $3400

Almost all excellent optics dropped 50% in last year or so.

I've been seeing the optics prices dropping, too. Just out of curiosity--and not to derail the topic; just the one question--what's your go-to glass for ultra-long range? Not that top-end scopes from Nightforce, Kahles, or Schmidt & Bender are exactly in my normal price range, but that doesn't mean I'm not window shopping.

I am impressed with my new Optika6 4.5-30x56. It is one of the best riflescopes for your dollars. I paid around $925 delivered.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DdALyCsBnX8oLqZn9

If you have access to a Military discount you cannot go wrong with Vortex with UHD glass. Razor and above. I also hear good news for the new Vortex Strike Eagle (low cost, sub $1K)

I have 2 Burris XTR-2 scopes too. They are $1K riflescope. However, new offering by the competition made them the last couple of riflescopes.

[philip964]

I am never disappointed at the level of knowledge this group has.

And here I though $500 was a lot to pay for a scope.

So far no one has mentioned old used military rifles, are they just not in this league? Or is ammunition the problem?

[Beiruty]

I am never disappointed at the level of knowledge this group has.

And here I though $500 was a lot to pay for a scope.

So far no one has mentioned old used military rifles, are they just not in this league? Or is ammunition the problem?

Please be more specific. Old rifles do shoot but since they are vintage rifles, you need to inspect the barrel which is much easier today with $50 endoscope from Amazon, and then you would have to test and upgrades deficiencies.

[patterson]

I have heard good things about Arken scopes and they are not too expensive

[Rafe]

Cheapest scope on any of my Bolt rifle is $900
Most Expensive is $3400

Almost all excellent optics dropped 50% in last year or so.

I've been seeing the optics prices dropping, too. Just out of curiosity--and not to derail the topic; just the one question--what's your go-to glass for ultra-long range? Not that top-end scopes from Nightforce, Kahles, or Schmidt & Bender are exactly in my normal price range, but that doesn't mean I'm not window shopping.

I am impressed with my new Optika6 4.5-30x56. It is one of the best riflescopes for your dollars. I paid around $925 delivered.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/DdALyCsBnX8oLqZn9

If you have access to a Military discount you cannot go wrong with Vortex with UHD glass. Razor and above. I also hear good news for the new Vortex Strike Eagle (low cost, sub $1K)

I have 2 Burris XTR-2 scopes too. They are $1K riflescope. However, new offering by the competition made them the last couple of riflescopes.

Thanks. Your post and TAM's have given me more to think about. Right at Christmastime when I'd have to sleep in the garage if I gifted myself anything like this.

But I hadn't heard of--or at least never looked at--Meopta. OpticsPlanet is showing the Optika6 5-30x56mm, 34mm tube, on backorder, but selling for $900 to $950 depending upon the reticle.

I was a little put off from looking around because a I have a buddy who says the only thing worth buying is a Nightforce ATACR 7-35x56mm F1 FFP with a MIL-XT reticle...which of course is what he shoots on his best PBR rifle. He's let me shoot it. I can hit stuff with it! But I'm nowhere good enough to need it and doubt I'd ever threaten a steel plate at even 800 yards; I'd be happy with 600...but as TAM pointed out, I want to be able to SEE what I'm aiming at, not just see it. Nor do I have pocket change to cough up $3,600 for a scope. But if I can pay $1K-$1.5K for quality that used to be over $2K... I'm gonna keep thinking about it. A better scope may no longer be as far out of reach as I used to think.

[Beiruty]

Oh by the way, I'm got a SIG Tangi4 4-16x44 FFP for $400 on my 308. It is an Amazing scope for your Dollars