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In May 1960 an American U-2 reconnaissance aircraft was shot down over Russia. Its pilot, Capt. Francis Gary Powers, was taken captive. (The Soviets also shot down one of their own planes in the incident.)

The Eisenhower administration initially claimed that the U-2 was a weather research aircraft. Unfortunately, the Soviets had recovered the plane nearly intact and were able to demonstrate publicly that it was a spy plane.

Capt. Powers was convicted of espionage and spent over a year in prison. He gained his freedom in exchange for a Soviet spy in February 1962.

In April, 1961, less than three months after Pres. John F. Kennedy's inauguration, 1,400 Cuban exiles backed by the CIA invaded Cuba at the Bay of Pigs.

The Cuban military killed about 100 invaders and captured 1,200.

The Kennedy administration negotiated the release of the prisoners for 20 months. In the end, the U.S. delivered $53 million worth of food and pharmaceuticals in exchange for the prisoners' freedom.

Many historians think that the Bay of Pigs fiasco emboldened the USSR, which attempted to place nuclear missiles in Cuba the next year.

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In May, 1964 a photograph of Pres. Lyndon Johnson picking up one of his pet beagles by the ears was widely published, provoking national outrage. Johnson nonetheless was elected later that year.

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In October 1965, after undergoing surgery to remove his gallbladder, Johnson lifted his shirt during a press conference to display the incision.

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In January 1968 North Korean naval forces captured the USS Pueblo, an electronic reconnaissance ship, killing one American. The surviving 82 crew members were captured and abused for 11 months. They were released in December when the U.S. formally admitted to espionage.

The North Koreans kept the ship, which they now operate as a tourist attraction.

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In September 1968 Richard Nixon, running for President, appeared on Rowan & Martin's Laugh In and pronounced the show's gag phrase "sock it to me."

(You had to have been there to understand the ridiculousness of the 53-year-old former vice president and senator trying to be "hip.")

In November 1973, as his presidency was sliding toward the precipice, he announced at a press conference, "I am not a crook."

In June 1975 Pres. Gerald Ford fell down the stairs of Air Force One upon arriving in Vienna for a conference. The mishap was captured by a newspaper photographer and viciously ridiculed. After that, photographers kept a close eye on him and caught him on film in a number of embarrassing incidents.

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Pres. Ford also beaned numerous bystanders with golf balls before, during, and after his presidency. (Although standing downrange of him was dangerous, he was an accomplished athlete and could compete with pro golfers.)

All this trivia aside, his handling of the Mayaguez incident stands in sharp contrast to other costly, embarrassing presidential blunders.

In November 1979 Iranian revolutionaries took over the American embassy in Tehran and held over 50 staff members hostage for 444 days, ultimately dooming the presidency of James Earl Carter.

Pres. Carter froze Iranian assets in the U.S. and ordered other economic sanctions. When these measures and diplomatic negotiations failed to secure the release of the hostages, he ordered a rescue mission in April 1980. It failed spectacularly, with the deaths of eight service members and the loss of two U.S. aircraft.

In 1983 Pres. Ronald Reagan sent approximately 2,000 U.S. Marines, Army, and Navy personnel to join an international peacekeeping force in Beirut. In October a truck bomber attacked their barracks and killed 241 American servicemen. The perpetrators (aside from the truck driver) were never brought to justice.

In August 1984 Pres. Reagan, speaking into live on-air mike that he thought was turned off, said, "My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."

Fortunately, WW III did not start on the spot.

In January 1992 Pres. George H.W. Bush was attending a state dinner hosted by the Prime Minister of Japan. He collapsed at the dinner table and threw up in the lap of the Prime Minister (who dealt with the situation calmly).

In October 1993 U.S. forces cooperating with other U.N. member forces attempted to decapitate a militia that refused to cooperate with peacekeeping efforts. Two U.S. Black Hawk helicopter were shot down, and their crews were trapped in hostile territory. Some were rescued, but in all 18 Americans died and 73 were wounded. The number of Somali dead has been estimated between several hundred and two thousand. This incident is documented in the book and movie Black Hawk Down.

The case can be made that Pres. Clinton lost his confidence in the use of military force overseas as a result of this fiasco.

In April 2001, three months after Pres. George W.Bush's inauguration, a U.S. EP-3E Aries II electronic surveillance plane and a Chinese People’s Liberation Army Navy plane collided over the South China Sea. The Chinese pilot and plane were lost at sea. The damaged U.S. plane landed at a Chinese military base. The 24 crew members were released after 11 days of negotiations and a formal expression of regret by the U.S.

After two more months of negotiation, the Chinese allowed American technicians to disassemble the American plane and ship its parts out on chartered cargo planes.

The Chinese government demanded $1 million in miscellaneous charges. The U.S. offered a payment of about $34,000, which the Chinese rejected.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL30946.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course there have been other embarrassments. These are only the ones that I remember.

- Jim

In February/March of 1968, the US Navy, in the wake of the Pueblo debacle and having recognized that very few sailors knew how to scuttle their ships, sent large numbers of selected Petty Officers for training in doing just that.

I was one of those thus "honored."

I have to say that playing with C4, TNT, and Primacord for a week plus was a (excuse the intentional pun) blast.

January 20, 2009: B. Hussein Obama takes oath of office.

jimlongley wrote:In February/March of 1968, the US Navy, in the wake of the Pueblo debacle and having recognized that very few sailors knew how to scuttle their ships, sent large numbers of selected Petty Officers for training in doing just that.

I was one of those thus "honored."

I have to say that playing with C4, TNT, and Primacord for a week plus was a (excuse the intentional pun) blast.

At least they knew who should be taught (NCO's).

Shaped charge inside a low spot on the hull and that sucker is GOING DOWN!

I don't know if it's that easy. Navy ships are designed to survive being holed, and many have, the USS Cole being a recent example. She took a 2,400 square foot [sic] hole and remained seaworthy.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I don't know if it's that easy. Navy ships are designed to survive being holed, and many have (the USS Cole being a recent example).

Well below the waterline?

Cole got hit at or above the waterline...I guess you would have to hole each individual waterproof section well below the waterline..this way if all the waterproof bulkheads were sealed the ship is still going to take on water in each section.

Would most definitely have to disable the bilge pumps though

Enough derail..back to the OP

Purplehood wrote:

jimlongley wrote:In February/March of 1968, the US Navy, in the wake of the Pueblo debacle and having recognized that very few sailors knew how to scuttle their ships, sent large numbers of selected Petty Officers for training in doing just that.

I was one of those thus "honored."

I have to say that playing with C4, TNT, and Primacord for a week plus was a (excuse the intentional pun) blast.

At least they knew who should be taught (NCO's).

I'm not sure we warranted being trusted that much more. In '69 and '70 the Weather Underground was bombing reserve centers and once again NCOs were called upon to step up. Senior E4s and most E5s started standing sentry watches, something we hadn't done since we were E3s, with one minor but important difference, we were issued ammo.

WarHawk-AVG wrote:Shaped charge inside a low spot on the hull and that sucker is GOING DOWN!

Not entirely true, there is a lot of structure that has to be considered, and how water will flow and air pockets will accumulate, and a bunch of other stuff that I hardly recall forty plus years later, but the upshot is that multiple charges would be placed and set to go off in a predetermined pattern to lead to the swiftest and most thorough sinking possible. It was all laid out on a ship type basis and we were just supposed to follow the plan.

That said, then the explosives necessary were carefully stowed away in a location that would have made it impossible to get to them and get them laid out in less time than the Pueblo took to be taken.

One of the most gratifying pictures of the day was the front page of Life Magazine showing the captive crew displaying their Hawaiian good luck signs for the Koreans, and crew members sending Morse code messages by blinking. These days Morse is becoming a lost art.

How does the Pueblo qualify as a presidential embarrassment? Navy, yes, but what did the president have to do with it?

The hole in the Cole extended well below the water line. The ship I was on took a hit during WWII and was holed well below the water line but survived to fight another day.

Actually, everything is related.

Osama bin Laden is thought to have been backing a faction in Somalia. Probably he was emboldened by the U.S. failure there and went on to plan the devastating suicide bombings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam, the attack on the Cole, the aborted "Millenium" plot, and, of course, the September 11, 2001, atrocities.

Also, the U.S. had indicted him and imprisoned some of his minions for the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, which had to make his Cheerios stick in his throat.

- Jim

jimlongley wrote:How does the Pueblo qualify as a presidential embarrassment? Navy, yes, but what did the president have to do with it?

The quick answer is "the buck stops here." ("Here" being the Oval Office.)

Probably Pres. Johnson had little to do directly with the Pueblo incident. He was in some respects a broken man by then. However, 1968 was one of the worst years in U.S. history, and that incident was a national humiliation.

Thinking about it, I can't figure out how the North Koreans have been able to stick it to the U.S. with impunity for 50 years.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:

jimlongley wrote:How does the Pueblo qualify as a presidential embarrassment? Navy, yes, but what did the president have to do with it?

The quick answer is "the buck stops here." ("Here" being the Oval Office.)

Probably Pres. Johnson had little to do directly with the Pueblo incident. He was in some respects a broken man by then. However, 1968 was one of the worst years in U.S. history, and that incident was a national humiliation.

Thinking about it, I can't figure out how the North Koreans have been able to stick it to the U.S. with impunity for 50 years.

- Jim

I don't know, Jim, yes, being in the Navy at the time, the situation really stung our pride, but the general public, just tipping off the cusp of the anti-war movement, pretty much saw it as proof of the military's incompetence and justification for all sorts of criticism of the US's cold war policies and such.

Those of us in the Navy were horrified at first, any of us might have been in harm's way any minute, but when the Hawaiian Good Luck picture came out morale jumped a couple of quanta, and when Captain Bucher wrote his letter offering to paean the Koreans, we understood and were quite ready to do so. We stayed at a high alert status for a while, but then were downgraded when the negotiations started and it was obvious that a military response was not being considered.

Far from seeing it as a national humiliation, all we thought was that it was a Navy humiliation, and mostly a sloppy execution due to unpreparedness. A lot of what went wrong was rectified pretty quick. We had myself and several others sent for explosives training at the hands of the SeaBees, who were quite willing to play with things that went boom. We also got upgraded small arms training and an intensive refresher in machine guns, for a little while it looked like we were going to be issued .50s, but that didn't happen, too many going to 'Nam.

Whether one sees it as a national humiliation or a naval humiliation depends upon where you were at the time, I guess. I was a high-school kid, and I was shocked by the impotence of the U.S. in the Pueblo incident.

My father and all my male relatives in that generation had fought in WW II, and I was raised with the assumption that the U.S. could defend itself and its own in the face of any threat, and that we were the good guys.

Then My Lai went down the same year.

The American people in general did not direct the policies of the military (sending the Pueblo unarmed and without an escort into hostile waters), but they elected the representatives and the President who chose the civilian DoD appointees and officers who did.

(I'm saying "they" only because I was too young to vote.)

- Jim

The big problem with the response to the Pueblo was that too many people sat on their hands waiting for someone else to do something. Pueblo was on the radio throughout the piracy and there was time to get some aircraft out there before they were towed away, but this guy thought that guy should make the decision, and nobody wanted to wake up the President. By the time Johnson was awake, it was too late.

Do I think they could have done a better job of fighting the ship, you bet your bippy I do, but they also could have been better armed. Having a couple of .50BMG for primary armament is shameful, but considering her cover mission is, I guess, necessary. They also showed a marked lack of ability to use the machine guns and kept no ammo in a nearby ready condition.

When we were off Lebanon and Isreal just a few months later, and with the USS Liberty incident fresh in our minds as well, we had ready ammo stockpiled nearby.

jimlongley wrote:The big problem with the response to the Pueblo was that too many people sat on their hands waiting for someone else to do something.

When a captain radios back that he is surrounded by enemy craft and outgunned is not the time to start to decide what to do about it. The taking of the Pueblo was foreseeable (like so many other disasters). A plan should have been in place that could be executed immediately when the situation arose.

- Jim