Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[jason812]

Seriously, I'm native born. I'm not happy with a lot, but don't stand between me and my national pride. Leave this Republic free. Move to California if you want to subjugate your fellow man.

I jest about Texas nationalism, sort of. But don't mess with you know who.

I've been saying this for years. Adapt to our way of life/thinking or go back to where ever it is you came from. I wish the governors would quit recruiting out of state businesses to Texas cause they are diluting the gene pool. It should be if you want to move to Texas, go to one of the big cities and drag a liberal to the other side of a border and then you can stay. Texas is still the greatest but I sometimes wonder for how long.

Back to the bottom rocker thing... I think every motorcycle rider in the state should wear a Texas bottom rocker. The Frito Bandidos can't stop them all.

[ShootDontTalk]

Maybe I'm out of touch here, but is it the 99% that are getting extorted or is it part of the 1% extorting other parts of the 1%. I belonged to several groups when I rode (think CMA type groups) and the only thing we paid was minimal dues to the organization for records upkeep and the like.
I guess I was thinking the Texas Rocker and extortion thing was more of a drug turf issue than anything else.

My question is WHY? Why would a Christian organization think for even a second about paying dues to the Bandidos? Can I substitute a name here so I'm absolutely clear? Why would a bunch of Christians pay dues to the HAngels for any reason?

Surely you don't need the Bandidos to keep club records? Isn't that like asking Al Capone to be your club treasurer? I haven't heard any explanation that makes any sense whatsoever. And truthfully, I never expected to hear people on a forum like this acquiesce to such extortion!

[Target1911]

I haven't seen not one person here say they were ok with the extortion. Only explanation of what has been going on. The hole reason the shooting happened is because the Cossacks felt they no longer should have to answer to another club. That's why they stopped paying dues and decided they would rock the Texas rocker.

Also. I don't believe the Christian group pays anything to anyone or answers to anyone. They were at the meeting for the reason the meeting is held. Motorcycle legislation and safety.

The reason who has what colors is an issue to them is I am sure they don't want to be mistaken for an owtlaw (or any other) club due to colors being too similar.

There are actually several benefit thy clubs that are not required to pay dues. The Christian group.... B.A.C.A. Which means BIKER AGAINST CHILD ABUSE. And yes...they still look like bikers but that doesn't mean they are outlaws.

[ShootDontTalk]

Maybe I'm not saying this clearly enough. No one seems able to answer, so it must be me.

I
Also. I don't believe the Christian group pays anything to anyone or answers to anyone. They were at the meeting for the reason the meeting is held. Motorcycle legislation and safety.

A Christian motorcycle group meeting with a known criminal gang, 100 strong, to discuss legislation and safety? Safety should have been discussed over strip searches at the door. Too thin.

The reason who has what colors is an issue to them is I am sure they don't want to be mistaken for an owtlaw (or any other) club due to colors being too similar.

And for that privilege of seeing what your colors shouldn't look like, you get tossed in jail, get a $1 million bond, and are looking at 15 years or more in a Federal pen? Are you serious? That's why they associate with them?

There are actually several benefit thy clubs that are not required to pay dues. The Christian group.... B.A.C.A. Which means BIKER AGAINST CHILD ABUSE. And yes...they still look like bikers but that doesn't mean they are outlaws.

Let me see if I got this. The criminal gangs give you a break because you do charitable things, so in return you go to a weekend gunfight? What possible reason can you give for a Christian motorcycle club to associate with people who kill one another over a patch?

I will give you the 99% thing that most of them may look like bikers, but are not criminals. However, now for the treat of lunch and a beer with the 1% criminals who decided to kill each other over bragging rights, guess what 99% of the world is branding all of you? Was it worth it?

[ScooterSissy]

Yes, the majority of those who ride motorcycles are the law abiding 99% and the 1% are criminals.

The 1% are into pathological role playing though they're mostly middle age to geezer age, they apparently can't stand being themselves. They have to posture like an adolescent. Rather than being cool, they're pathetic.

Wearing colors (can we be anymore juvenile?) and acting out wherever they go is cause for disgust not admiration, though I think a few ordinary misguided citizens seem to idolize these cretins.

I am just having trouble understanding how the 99%, who, prior to buying a motorcycle, would never agree to a criminal extortion plot, somehow feel so threatened as to give in to that demand for compliance - either by agreement or cash - after plunking down their hard-earned money for a motorcycle. With all due respect to the 99%, I just don't get it.

I think it's more along the lines of (the 99%, mind you) - "we're imitating them (and they are to a large degree), so if we're playing their game, we should play by their rules."

I'll try another analogy. If someone donned camos that looked very much like military attire, but was slightly different; and then started adding ribbons that were very similar to real military ribbons, but still slightly different; what do you think the chances are that a vet somewhere would tell that person to take them off?

Wonder what the opinion of those on here would be of the poser?

[ScooterSissy]

...
Maybe I'm out of touch here, but is it the 99% that are getting extorted or is it part of the 1% extorting other parts of the 1%. I belonged to several groups when I rode (think CMA type groups) and the only thing we paid was minimal dues to the organization for records upkeep and the like.
I guess I was thinking the Texas Rocker and extortion thing was more of a drug turf issue than anything else.

Bingo, give the man an award.

I'm not enough of an "expert" to say that it's never happened, but I've never heard of an RC paying dues to an MC (in spite of what was said in an earlier part of this thread). If such an occurrence has happened, I'd like to know the name of the groups involved.

BTW, though some of the groups may not be "official" 1%'ers (no patch identifying them as such), you can bet if don the MC patch, they're likely part of that lifestyle. There are exceptions (the Blue Knights come to mind, and they add an LE [Law Enforcement] patch to the MC); but not many.

[ScooterSissy]

Maybe I'm not saying this clearly enough. No one seems able to answer, so it must be me.

I
Also. I don't believe the Christian group pays anything to anyone or answers to anyone. They were at the meeting for the reason the meeting is held. Motorcycle legislation and safety.

A Christian motorcycle group meeting with a known criminal gang, 100 strong, to discuss legislation and safety? Safety should have been discussed over strip searches at the door. Too thin.

The reason who has what colors is an issue to them is I am sure they don't want to be mistaken for an owtlaw (or any other) club due to colors being too similar.

And for that privilege of seeing what your colors shouldn't look like, you get tossed in jail, get a $1 million bond, and are looking at 15 years or more in a Federal pen? Are you serious? That's why they associate with them?

There are actually several benefit thy clubs that are not required to pay dues. The Christian group.... B.A.C.A. Which means BIKER AGAINST CHILD ABUSE. And yes...they still look like bikers but that doesn't mean they are outlaws.

Let me see if I got this. The criminal gangs give you a break because you do charitable things, so in return you go to a weekend gunfight? What possible reason can you give for a Christian motorcycle club to associate with people who kill one another over a patch?

I will give you the 99% thing that most of them may look like bikers, but are not criminals. However, now for the treat of lunch and a beer with the 1% criminals who decided to kill each other over bragging rights, guess what 99% of the world is branding all of you? Was it worth it?

Sorry, you've misinterpreted some of the stuff.

First of all, again though I can't say 100% sure, I'm pretty close on this one - none of the Christian groups were arrested. Law enforcement officials know the differences between the varying gangs and groups.

Next, the CoC is not comprised strictly of outlaw groups. Lots of riding clubs, and even special interest MCs are part of the CoC. The meeting Sunday wasn't "planned" (by the CoC to be a shootout. I suspect no one knew it was going to happen, except for the group that rolled up together planning to make it so.

As far as church-going groups associating with known criminals (or groups that have a lot of criminals alongside a lot of law-abiding citizens) - do you expect them to give up politics as well?

[jmra]

Maybe I'm out of touch here, but is it the 99% that are getting extorted or is it part of the 1% extorting other parts of the 1%. I belonged to several groups when I rode (think CMA type groups) and the only thing we paid was minimal dues to the organization for records upkeep and the like.
I guess I was thinking the Texas Rocker and extortion thing was more of a drug turf issue than anything else.

My question is WHY? Why would a Christian organization think for even a second about paying dues to the Bandidos? Can I substitute a name here so I'm absolutely clear? Why would a bunch of Christians pay dues to the HAngels for any reason?

Surely you don't need the Bandidos to keep club records? Isn't that like asking Al Capone to be your club treasurer? I haven't heard any explanation that makes any sense whatsoever. And truthfully, I never expected to hear people on a forum like this acquiesce to such extortion!

Just to be clear, our dues were paid to CMA. We never paid dues to anyone else and we never participated in any type of CoC meetings. We did participate in fund raisers and various rides but that was our only interaction with other groups.

[fickman]

I can see legitimate evangelical reasons for a Christian group to be there. Until this happened, proselytizing on a sunny Sunday afternoon among bikers seems safer than going to a field party on a Saturday night.

I have no idea if this was going on; I am just saying that it would make sense to me. If you've got a heart for bikers and want to bring them the Gospel, you have to go to where the bikers are.

[Oldgringo]

Dues?

I pay club dues to the Polson (MT) Shooters Assoc. for range use. Are folk paying dues to ride a motorcycle on public roads or are these club membership dues being debated?

[Abraham]

Why do Christian motorcycle club members dress like outlaw bikers?

There's something deeply wrong with that...

And, no, I don't buy for one second that to evangelize to these bikers one must appear to be like them to gain access to their cancerous souls.

Baloney!

[ShootDontTalk]

I think it's more along the lines of (the 99%, mind you) - "we're imitating them (and they are to a large degree), so if we're playing their game, we should play by their rules."

Better you said it than me. Again, thanks for your honesty.

I'll try another analogy. If someone donned camos that looked very much like military attire, but was slightly different; and then started adding ribbons that were very similar to real military ribbons, but still slightly different; what do you think the chances are that a vet somewhere would tell that person to take them off?

Wonder what the opinion of those on here would be of the poser?

The analogy again breaks down - but you have found a kernel of truth. Posing as a veteran is a real crime that can land you in jail. And yes, people on here probably would not condone anyone posing as one. They also question the sanity of anyone who dresses up like an outlaw biker and sits down to eat a burger with a couple hundred armed gang members. See the connection?

The truth is people (including the rest of the world) paint us by the company we keep and the look we strive for. If I decided to dress up in man-Jammie's, let my beard grow out, sling my AK-47 look alike and walk the streets in company with 20 or 30 other real terrorists, people would probably perceive me to be a terrorist. What would I gain for myself besides a pot full of trouble? Nothing. A lot of real pain for being a make believe terrorist-or am I make believe?

I could dress up like a HAngel, let my beard grow out, let my hair get scraggly, don the leathers and ride my Harley around with some real HAngels. The critical issue is not what the outlaw bikers think of me, but what millions of non-bikers who see the group roaring down the street think of me. Am I one of them? Yes. Why? Because I associate with them. What do I gain from pretending to be a HAngel? Nothing good.

Not criticizing because I wasn't there, but I really doubt there were was any evangelizing by Christians going on when the shooting started. I suspect any "evangelizing" was being done by outlaw bikers just showing up.

Abraham...yours is an excellent question. There comes a point where all the look-alike, dress up pretending causes the focus to shift from eternity to the world. I don't think I want to have to stand before the Lord and explain why I was more interested in the bikes than the souls.

[mojo84]

The OMG's shouldn't have any claim or right to dictate what other people put on their jackets as long as their trademarks or copyrights aren't infringed upon. Extortion is extortion whether they are extorting money from other OMG's or anyone else. I find it pretty interesting how we have supposedly law abiding CHL's condoning and justifying crimes such as extortion and assault because someone wears a certain color or the word "Texas" on their jacket or vest.

Just can't figure out how some think they can dress up and act like a criminal thug but not be perceived or treated as one.

[jmra]

Dues?

I pay club dues to the Polson (MT) Shooters Assoc. for range use. Are folk paying dues to ride a motorcycle on public roads or are these club membership dues being debated?

The dues I was referring to were club membership dues. It was a very small amount that helped defer the cost of postage and book keeping.
We didn't try to look like anyone but ourselves and didn't try to copy anyone else's logos or designs. Nor did we hang out with outlaws.

[mojo84]

There is a difference between paying club dues and paying another club for the privilege of wearing a certain color or rocker, a patch denoting a certain territory.

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Biker Patch Rules
If you are going to wear a biker patch, it pays to know something about biker patch rules and etiquette. The reason is simple: your actions will be reflected on all bikers in the area. This is true whether you are an Independent / Lone Wolf or belong to an MC (motorcycle club), RC (riding club) or MM (motorcycle ministry).
Read and Follow the Club Rules
All biker clubs have rules about how to wear the patch. You can avoid a lot of trouble by just following the club rules. If there is something you do not understand, clarify it with the club. Note: most clubs allow you to wear memorial patches anywhere on the vest but it is best to ask first.
If you are making a patch it is a good idea to get familiar with the patch designs used by clubs in your area. Show your intended patch design to the clubs (if there are too many in your area, just show it to the most dominant group).
When you get their approval, you can have it made. This isn’t really necessary, but it is a show of respect for the clubs.
Patches and Colors
Among traditional MCs, the patch is considered different from colors. In their view, the patches are the property of riding clubs and are bought (not earned). It is the colors that belong to the motorcycle club; the colors must be earned.
One of the most important biker patch rules to remember is that among MCs, the colors symbolize commitment. Keep this in mind when making a patch. Patches can mean various things to riding clubs and riders as well.
1 and 2 Piece Patches
The 1-piece patch usually represents a riding club, family club or social motorcycle club. Most 1-pecepaches are approved. The exceptions are when the logos are copied somewhere else or if the design is a lot like the local MC.
The 2-piece patch can mean different things. To be safe, make sure the designs do not infringe on their patches.
3 Piece Patches
This patch can mean the rider is part of an outlaw club or a traditional motorcycle club. In a three-piece patch, the top rocker must bear the club name. The center has the club patch and the bottom the territory.
Sometimes the bottom rocker has a saying or motto included. New MCs should not wear the three-piece patch. If your club wants to wear this patch, you need approval from the existing established MCs in your area.
Rockers
The rockers are the curved patches at the bottom and top. Riding clubs cannot wear them unless approved by the dominant riding club in the area. Social MCs and riding clubs should not claim territory by using the rockers. Do not sew the state name onto your vest or jacket without club approval.
These are the biker patch rules that new riders or clubs should be aware of. There are of course, other stipulations and regulations unique to an area. Get in touch with the local groups in your location just to be safe.

The dominant club in the area sometimes grants the "privilege" of wearing certain colors or territory rocker if the other club is willing to pay for that privilege. The Cossacks had been paying the fees, tribute or extortion, whatever you want to call it, but they recently decided to stop paying it. Hence, a shootout in the busy shopping center parking lot when they showed up.


Thugs doing what thugs do.