APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

Topics that do not fit anywhere else. Absolutely NO discussions of religion, race, or immigration!

Moderators: carlson1, Charles L. Cotton

Locked
User avatar

anygunanywhere
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 7875
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Richmond, Texas

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#166

Post by anygunanywhere »

matriculated wrote: What I can't help but chuckle at (for lack of a better response) is this mentality that if one criticizes an LEO's actions, he's automatically engaging in "LEO bashing," or worse yet drawing, quartering, charging, trying, convicting, and executing the said LEO. This forum is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEO's, and the idea that LEO bashing on such a scale would be allowed for the duration of this thread is preposterous on its face. Everybody has been very respectful generally speaking
I think that most here can tell the difference between proper criticism and bashing.

I think that your insistence that this site is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEOs is in and of itself a ridiculous statement.

Some of tho most severe criticism on this site against LEO is more often than not heard from other LEOs.

We would do well to learn from them and their experience and pray that those who need to improve their performance can do so to make certain that the innocent remain unharmed.

Anygunanywhere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand

matriculated

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#167

Post by matriculated »

jimlongley wrote:In my 28 years as a telephone man, I was bitten several times on the job. Company rules forbade my suing even in the most egregious situations, such as when I told the owner that the (barking, growling, scrabbling to get out of owner's arms) dog had to be put in another room while I was there. She insisted her little miniature poodle was no threat to anyone, and as soon as I got inside the house, she turned the dog loose from the kitchen, and it ran over and bit me on the knee. By the time I got to the hospital to get the wound cleaned and stitched, and the hospital, following protocol reported the bite to animal control, she had called the VP complaint line at the phone company, and lodged an official complaint about me slamming a door on her dog. Guess who wound up in trouble?

I have backed down a lot of dogs and I have been cornered, and I have been surprised and bit on the butt (twice, in vastly different situations) and I have given the speech about putting the dog in another secure area more times than I can count.

I still think the officer did wrong, particularly considering the timing of the shooting.
People are just stupid sometimes. I'm sure that poodle attack wasn't a life threatening event, but it cost you time, energy, money, and getting in trouble at your job. All because of a stubborn customer who wouldn't follow common sense. I have three harmless dogs who have never (nor would they ever) bitten anyone, but they do yap a lot (especially the little ones) and they get annoying to a stranger real quick, so whenever I have somebody in my house repairing anything, all 3 of them are locked away behind closed doors. For everyone's sanity.

By the way, did you really slam the door on the lady's poodle? Just curious. Was that while it was still attached to your leg?

matriculated

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#168

Post by matriculated »

anygunanywhere wrote:I think that your insistence that this site is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEOs is in and of itself a ridiculous statement.
You can think whatever you want. My statement was factually accurate.
User avatar

anygunanywhere
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 7875
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Richmond, Texas

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#169

Post by anygunanywhere »

matriculated wrote: I have three harmless dogs who have never (nor would they ever) bitten anyone
Matriculated, all dogs will bite in the right circumstance.

All. Dogs. Will. Bite.

I have been bitten twice by dogs aftger their owners said they would not bite.

One was a little yapper.

When I hear someone state that their dog will not bite it reinforces my belief that people do not know their animals.

Anygunanywhere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand
User avatar

anygunanywhere
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 9
Posts: 7875
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2005 9:16 am
Location: Richmond, Texas

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#170

Post by anygunanywhere »

matriculated wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:I think that your insistence that this site is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEOs is in and of itself a ridiculous statement.
You can think whatever you want. My statement was factually accurate.
Right. Whatever you say.

Anygunanywhere
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." Mike Vanderboegh

"The Smallest Minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." – Ayn Rand

matriculated

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#171

Post by matriculated »

anygunanywhere wrote:
matriculated wrote: I have three harmless dogs who have never (nor would they ever) bitten anyone
Matriculated, all dogs will bite in the right circumstance.

All. Dogs. Will. Bite.

I have been bitten twice by dogs aftger their owners said they would not bite.

One was a little yapper.

When I hear someone state that their dog will not bite it reinforces my belief that people do not know their animals.

Anygunanywhere
I know there are always people claiming that, and actually, to an extent I agree with you. There is just no way to know for sure, 100% that a dog will never bite. But there's knowing darn near 100%. I'm probably 98% there. And the circumstances in which either one of my dogs would sink its teeth into human flesh would have to be so extraordinary that they're highly unlikely to actually occur. If the scenario of this case played out, and an officer had a gun on me and was yelling at me, I know for a fact that none of my dogs would react aggressively. They've seen people yelling before. They love strangers. An owner is responsible for knowing his dogs and taking necessary precautions. If any of my dogs showed even a hint of aggressiveness, especially the bigger (therefore more dangerous) dog, I would never put it in a circumstance where it would have a chance to hurt someone.
User avatar

C-dub
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 17
Posts: 13562
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 7:18 pm
Location: DFW

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#172

Post by C-dub »

matriculated wrote:
jimlongley wrote:In my 28 years as a telephone man, I was bitten several times on the job. Company rules forbade my suing even in the most egregious situations, such as when I told the owner that the (barking, growling, scrabbling to get out of owner's arms) dog had to be put in another room while I was there. She insisted her little miniature poodle was no threat to anyone, and as soon as I got inside the house, she turned the dog loose from the kitchen, and it ran over and bit me on the knee. By the time I got to the hospital to get the wound cleaned and stitched, and the hospital, following protocol reported the bite to animal control, she had called the VP complaint line at the phone company, and lodged an official complaint about me slamming a door on her dog. Guess who wound up in trouble?

I have backed down a lot of dogs and I have been cornered, and I have been surprised and bit on the butt (twice, in vastly different situations) and I have given the speech about putting the dog in another secure area more times than I can count.

I still think the officer did wrong, particularly considering the timing of the shooting.
People are just stupid sometimes. I'm sure that poodle attack wasn't a life threatening event, but it cost you time, energy, money, and getting in trouble at your job. All because of a stubborn customer who wouldn't follow common sense. I have three harmless dogs who have never (nor would they ever) bitten anyone, but they do yap a lot (especially the little ones) and they get annoying to a stranger real quick, so whenever I have somebody in my house repairing anything, all 3 of them are locked away behind closed doors. For everyone's sanity.

By the way, did you really slam the door on the lady's poodle? Just curious. Was that while it was still attached to your leg?
If as you say, you still secured your dogs than I congratulate you for that. I'm sure the woman in Jim's story thought the same as you do about your dogs, though, but she was much less pragmatic. All dogs will bite under that right circumstances. Well, maybe not all dogs. Some are so afraid that they will just pee all over themselves if they are too afraid to bite, but that's a pretty small number.
I am not and have never been a LEO. My avatar is in honor of my friend, Dallas Police Sargent Michael Smith, who was murdered along with four other officers in Dallas on 7.7.2016.
NRA Patriot-Endowment Lifetime Member---------------------------------------------Si vis pacem, para bellum.................................................Patriot Guard Rider
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#173

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

matriculated wrote:This forum is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEO's, . . .
Why, because we require people to talk about specific incidents rather than engage in bashing of law enforcement personnel in general? In case you haven't read the Forum rule on this issue, it's copied below. Please point out anything in it you feel is overreaching.

Chas.
Forum Rule 9 wrote:Blatant, global, or rampant law enforcement bashing is prohibited. Discussions of specific identifiable events presented factually are fine.
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#174

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

NYJ, I noticed on your Cisco Facebook page a statement that concerns me a great deal. Specifically, it states "Currently, we are looking into specific policies and laws that are, or are not, in place for situations such as this, and for those that ARE, are they actively being followed."

It appears to me that people involved in this issue are not only looking to Austin PD for some resolution, but are also considering trying to change Texas law as it deals with killing of animals. Is that something you or anyone with this Facebook page planning on doing in the 2013 Texas Legislative session?

Chas.

matriculated

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#175

Post by matriculated »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
matriculated wrote:This forum is ridiculously strict on treatment of LEO's, . . .
Why, because we require people to talk about specific incidents rather than engage in bashing of law enforcement personnel in general? In case you haven't read the Forum rule on this issue, it's copied below. Please point out anything in it you feel is overreaching.

Chas.
Forum Rule 9 wrote:Blatant, global, or rampant law enforcement bashing is prohibited. Discussions of specific identifiable events presented factually are fine.
I've read the rule and I don't think the rule itself is overreaching. But, based on my experience, perhaps the interpretation of what constitutes "LEO bashing" casts a net a bit too wide. I'm about as pro-LEO as they come. I know the pressures and dangers LEO's face. I respect and support LEO's and cooperate fully whenever I interact with a LEO. And I would never engage in "Blatant, global, or rampant law enforcement bashing." And yet, as I'm sure you are aware, I have been determined to have done exactly that. I disagreed with that opinion, but then I let it go. Again, I agree with the rule, but every rule is only as good as how it's enforced.
User avatar

Topic author
nyj
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 19
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm
Location: Austin

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#176

Post by nyj »

anygun,

Sorry you feel that way, but I for one, would gladly cherish the life of my loyal companion that has been by my side for 10 years now, then one life out of half of these moronic people I have to deal with on a daily basis in my job.

A bond with a dog is a special thing, and no matter what, your best canine friend will never be as ignorant, rude, and careless as half of our population.
Last edited by nyj on Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

Topic author
nyj
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 19
Posts: 897
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 9:30 pm
Location: Austin

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#177

Post by nyj »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:NYJ, I noticed on your Cisco Facebook page a statement that concerns me a great deal. Specifically, it states "Currently, we are looking into specific policies and laws that are, or are not, in place for situations such as this, and for those that ARE, are they actively being followed."

It appears to me that people involved in this issue are not only looking to Austin PD for some resolution, but are also considering trying to change Texas law as it deals with killing of animals. Is that something you or anyone with this Facebook page planning on doing in the 2013 Texas Legislative session?

Chas.
Chas,

If you are at all interested in giving whatever advice you are able to, I would truly be glad to hear it. We've kind of made our official way into a "animal rights activist group," without even knowing it. We are certainly wanting to work with APD, but the sad truth is, this happens more often then it should all around the states, and very predominantly in Texas.
User avatar

jimlongley
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 6
Posts: 6134
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2005 1:31 pm
Location: Allen, TX

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#178

Post by jimlongley »

matriculated wrote:
jimlongley wrote:In my 28 years as a telephone man, I was bitten several times on the job. Company rules forbade my suing even in the most egregious situations, such as when I told the owner that the (barking, growling, scrabbling to get out of owner's arms) dog had to be put in another room while I was there. She insisted her little miniature poodle was no threat to anyone, and as soon as I got inside the house, she turned the dog loose from the kitchen, and it ran over and bit me on the knee. By the time I got to the hospital to get the wound cleaned and stitched, and the hospital, following protocol reported the bite to animal control, she had called the VP complaint line at the phone company, and lodged an official complaint about me slamming a door on her dog. Guess who wound up in trouble?

I have backed down a lot of dogs and I have been cornered, and I have been surprised and bit on the butt (twice, in vastly different situations) and I have given the speech about putting the dog in another secure area more times than I can count.

I still think the officer did wrong, particularly considering the timing of the shooting.
People are just stupid sometimes. I'm sure that poodle attack wasn't a life threatening event, but it cost you time, energy, money, and getting in trouble at your job. All because of a stubborn customer who wouldn't follow common sense. I have three harmless dogs who have never (nor would they ever) bitten anyone, but they do yap a lot (especially the little ones) and they get annoying to a stranger real quick, so whenever I have somebody in my house repairing anything, all 3 of them are locked away behind closed doors. For everyone's sanity.

By the way, did you really slam the door on the lady's poodle? Just curious. Was that while it was still attached to your leg?
No, I didn't slam the door on her dog, but I did depart the house quickly, with blood running down my leg and drops hitting all over the floor and front steps, while she loudly declaimed that her dog hadn't bitten me, that I had done the injury myself, despite the fact that she was standing right there when the dog bit me.

My boss went to her house to investigate and told me that by the time he got there, the front steps and walk had been very thoroughly washed, and the lady told him that I had been very rude, that I had refused to fix her phone, and that when her poor dog sniffed at my boot when she opened the door to let me in, I had kicked at the dog and slammed the door on it. This had caused the dog to lose control of its bladder all over the front steps, which was why they were freshly washed.

The amount of blood in the cab of my truck, where I applied a dressing to control the bleeding, made it obvious that I had to have bled a lot getting there, but the lady wouldn't let my boss inside to do the repair, probably so he couldn't look around. The dog nailed that little arterial that passes on the outside of the knee and around the front, the one that makes a knee injury when roller skating look like a major bloodbath. It was kind of comedic, she started saying the dog hadn't bitten me before I even started bleeding, I wondered if she thought she was hypnotizing me.

A Sheriff's department detective friend of mine did a little looking into her for me, when I was considering suing and before I was told it was against company rules to do so, and found out that her dog had been turned in for chasing and biting people several times, when it got loose as she answered the door, and the Sheriff's department had told her that she was on her third strike, which explains a little of her attitude, but even considering that I never could figure out why she let it out of the kitchen when she knew it was likely to attack. The Sheriff's decided to count the bite as a half bite because it occurred in her home, but the next time it happened, the dog got loose and bit a kid next door, they took the dog from her and destroyed it.

Her letter and the complaint investigation stayed in my file, as well as one from me explaining my side, until I was promoted to staff and had access to all of the employees' files, and then it mysteriously disappeared. :headscratch

I also count the Chihuahua that bit my boot and worried at it for a few minutes without even coming close to drawing blood as a bite, just one of the more minor ones.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts in topic: 7
Posts: 17787
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#179

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

nyj wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:NYJ, I noticed on your Cisco Facebook page a statement that concerns me a great deal. Specifically, it states "Currently, we are looking into specific policies and laws that are, or are not, in place for situations such as this, and for those that ARE, are they actively being followed."

It appears to me that people involved in this issue are not only looking to Austin PD for some resolution, but are also considering trying to change Texas law as it deals with killing of animals. Is that something you or anyone with this Facebook page planning on doing in the 2013 Texas Legislative session?

Chas.
Chas,

If you are at all interested in giving whatever advice you are able to, I would truly be glad to hear it. We've kind of made our official way into a "animal rights activist group," without even knowing it. We are certainly wanting to work with APD, but the sad truth is, this happens more often then it should all around the states, and very predominantly in Texas.
You didn't really answer my question, but I suspected that to be the case. You're not going to like my advice; don't try to change Texas law. Your website states that you have found one other incident at it wasin 2000! That's hardly something that is predominant in Texas as you state. You want to change Texas law for two incidents in 12 years. That won't fly with the legislature and you'll be surprised at the strength of the opposition.

Very few pets are killed unnecessarily, but if Texas law where changed, good people could find themselves facing prosecution for defending themselves, their family, or even their own pets from attacking dogs. The focus should be on why the officer drew his weapon in the first place, not trying to change the law because of one sad incident.

My wife and I certainly would be considered dog lovers, as you can see from my posts and my support of the Miniature Schnauzer Rescue of Houston. We have had three rescued Schnauzers and will have more in years to come. Our dogs are truly part of the family and we've spent more money on their medical care over the years than I will admit. Nevertheless, the loss of a dog is not justification to put good people at risk of unfair prosecution by ill-advised legislation by so-called "animal rights activist groups."

Chas.
User avatar

Dragonfighter
Senior Member
Posts in topic: 4
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 2:02 pm
Contact:

Re: APD Shot and killed buddy's dog

#180

Post by Dragonfighter »

speedsix wrote:...and if he was given the wrong address by HQ, time off for the person who put out the wrong address...the saddest part of this all, nothing will bring Cisco back...the best thing about this...the hysterical officer didn't shoot the homeowner...
In this day and age where cell phones are more commonly used than land lines the best information they can expect from the system is a general location within 500 yards of the caller. In a case of a cell phone call, the 911 dispatcher is completely dependent on what the caller tells them. I cannot begin to tell you how many people don't know their addresses, can't articulate the street names or even answer simple queries by the 911 folks. That doesn't begin to address the cursing and name calling that must be endured to even get basic information. I am willing to bet that the problems from 911 call to arrival at the wrong address rests with the caller(s).

The dash cam demonstrates what is, IMO, a tightly wound responding officer that overreacted to the man walking out and then fired on the dog all in a matter of seconds. Based on what I heard, the resident didn't have a chance to comply nor restrain the dog. Sad.
I Thess 5:21
Disclaimer: IANAL, IANYL, IDNPOOTV, IDNSIAHIE and IANROFL
"There is no situation so bad that you can't make it worse." - Chris Hadfield, NASA ISS Astronaut
Locked

Return to “Off-Topic”