P-51 Mustang gets real 50-cal machine-guns installed

[surprise_i'm_armed]

I don't recall which US WW 2 fighter model
It was but I recall reading that the fighter left on
Missions with 1200 rounds of .50.

Considering the rate of firing those rounds could run
Out quickly.

Anyone know the stats of round counts on US fighters?

TIA / SIA

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't recall which US WW 2 fighter model
It was but I recall reading that the fighter left on
Missions with 1200 rounds of .50.

Considering the rate of firing those rounds could run
Out quickly.

Anyone know the stats of round counts on US fighters?

TIA / SIA

Six .50 cals was not limited to P51s.

• P39 Aircobra - one 37mm cannon and two .50 cal. Browning machine guns
• P40 Tomahawk/Kittyhawk/Warhawk - used a mixture of .50 and .30 cal machine guns, usually 2 of each. The British .30 cal versions were in .303. The "E" model did have six .50 cals, with 235 rounds per gun.
• F4F Wildcat - four .50 cal BMGs until the definitive version of the aircraft was released on 1942, with six .50 cals. with 450 rounds/gun.
• F6F Hellcat - six .50 cal BMGS, with 400 rounds per gun. The F6F-5N version built as a night fighter had four .50 cals in the center and outboard mounts, and two 20mm cannons on the inboard mounts, as did the F5F-5P. The planes carried 220 rounds of 20mm for each cannon, and 400 rounds/gun for the .50s.
• F8F Bearcat - limited to four .50 cals as a weight saving measure to provide more armor for the pilot.
• P51 Mustang - six .50 cal BMGs
• The Big Magilla - the P47 Thunderbolt - EIGHT .50 cals with 3,400 rounds of ammo, plus 5" rockets, and up to 2,500 lbs of gravity bombs. (And, in the "razor back" configuration, actually flew faster than the P51.
• F4U Corsair - six .50 cal. BMGs, carried 2,300 rounds......400 for each inner gun, and 375 each for the four outer guns.

The British Hurricane and Spitfires both had eight guns, and the Typhoon had twelve guns, but all of these were in .303 British, not .50 BMG.

All of them carried a hellacious punch aloft. And the technique didn't call for mashing the fire control button and just holding it down. Rounds were fired in short bursts, just like the video shows. When you have six .50s and you fire a 4 round burst, you've just slung 24 big fat bullets at the enemy plane in a couple of seconds or less.

By the way, early jet fighters also carried .50 cals, six at a time.....the F86 being an example.

[wheelgun1958]

Must be cautious of where he flies. Wouldn't want to set down anywhere near New England.

[jimlongley]

That is awesome. Thanks for posting this. 51's are my fav.

Mustang is nice to be sure, but my WWII favorite is the F-4U Corsair, with the P-38 Lightening in second, and then the Mustang.

[G26ster]

Six .50 cals was not limited to P51s.

• P39 Aircobra - one 37mm cannon and two .50 cal. Browning machine guns
• P40 Tomahawk/Kittyhawk/Warhawk - used a mixture of .50 and .30 cal machine guns, usually 2 of each. The British .30 cal versions were in .303. The "E" model did have six .50 cals, with 235 rounds per gun.
• F4F Wildcat - four .50 cal BMGs until the definitive version of the aircraft was released on 1942, with six .50 cals. with 450 rounds/gun.
• F6F Hellcat - six .50 cal BMGS, with 400 rounds per gun. The F6F-5N version built as a night fighter had four .50 cals in the center and outboard mounts, and two 20mm cannons on the inboard mounts, as did the F5F-5P. The planes carried 220 rounds of 20mm for each cannon, and 400 rounds/gun for the .50s.
• F8F Bearcat - limited to four .50 cals as a weight saving measure to provide more armor for the pilot.
• P51 Mustang - six .50 cal BMGs
• The Big Magilla - the P47 Thunderbolt - EIGHT .50 cals with 3,400 rounds of ammo, plus 5" rockets, and up to 2,500 lbs of gravity bombs. (And, in the "razor back" configuration, actually flew faster than the P51.
• F4U Corsair - six .50 cal. BMGs, carried 2,300 rounds......400 for each inner gun, and 375 each for the four outer guns.

The British Hurricane and Spitfires both had eight guns, and the Typhoon had twelve guns, but all of these were in .303 British, not .50 BMG.

All of them carried a hellacious punch aloft. And the technique didn't call for mashing the fire control button and just holding it down. Rounds were fired in short bursts, just like the video shows. When you have six .50s and you fire a 4 round burst, you've just slung 24 big fat bullets at the enemy plane in a couple of seconds or less.

By the way, early jet fighters also carried .50 cals, six at a time.....the F86 being an example.

Aw gee TAM, you left out my favorite (even tough the propeller is on the top )

AH-1 Cobra (Army versions)

Scout - Three 7.62 Mimiguns rated at 3000 rounds per minute, one 40mm Grenade Launcher rated at 400 rounds per minute, fourteen Folding Fin Aeriel Rockets. Later Scout version replaced one Minigun with one 20mm Cannon at 700 rounds per minute.

Light Hog - One 7.62 Minigun, one 40mm Grenade Launcher, fifty-two Folding Fin Aeriel Rockets.

Heavy Hog - Same as Light Hog, except seventy-six Rockets

Later versions added TOW/Hellfire missiles also.

[The Annoyed Man]

Six .50 cals was not limited to P51s.

• P39 Aircobra - one 37mm cannon and two .50 cal. Browning machine guns
• P40 Tomahawk/Kittyhawk/Warhawk - used a mixture of .50 and .30 cal machine guns, usually 2 of each. The British .30 cal versions were in .303. The "E" model did have six .50 cals, with 235 rounds per gun.
• F4F Wildcat - four .50 cal BMGs until the definitive version of the aircraft was released on 1942, with six .50 cals. with 450 rounds/gun.
• F6F Hellcat - six .50 cal BMGS, with 400 rounds per gun. The F6F-5N version built as a night fighter had four .50 cals in the center and outboard mounts, and two 20mm cannons on the inboard mounts, as did the F5F-5P. The planes carried 220 rounds of 20mm for each cannon, and 400 rounds/gun for the .50s.
• F8F Bearcat - limited to four .50 cals as a weight saving measure to provide more armor for the pilot.
• P51 Mustang - six .50 cal BMGs
• The Big Magilla - the P47 Thunderbolt - EIGHT .50 cals with 3,400 rounds of ammo, plus 5" rockets, and up to 2,500 lbs of gravity bombs. (And, in the "razor back" configuration, actually flew faster than the P51.
• F4U Corsair - six .50 cal. BMGs, carried 2,300 rounds......400 for each inner gun, and 375 each for the four outer guns.

The British Hurricane and Spitfires both had eight guns, and the Typhoon had twelve guns, but all of these were in .303 British, not .50 BMG.

All of them carried a hellacious punch aloft. And the technique didn't call for mashing the fire control button and just holding it down. Rounds were fired in short bursts, just like the video shows. When you have six .50s and you fire a 4 round burst, you've just slung 24 big fat bullets at the enemy plane in a couple of seconds or less.

By the way, early jet fighters also carried .50 cals, six at a time.....the F86 being an example.

Aw gee TAM, you left out my favorite (even tough the propeller is on the top )

AH-1 Cobra (Army versions)

Scout - Three 7.62 Mimiguns rated at 3000 rounds per minute, one 40mm Grenade Launcher rated at 400 rounds per minute, fourteen Folding Fin Aeriel Rockets. Later Scout version replaced one Minigun with one 20mm Cannon at 700 rounds per minute.

Light Hog - One 7.62 Minigun, one 40mm Grenade Launcher, fifty-two Folding Fin Aeriel Rockets.

Heavy Hog - Same as Light Hog, except seventy-six Rockets

Later versions added TOW/Hellfire missiles also.

Uuuuuhhhh, because it wasn't even a sparkle in the inventor's eye during the mid-40s?

[G26ster]

Uuuuuhhhh, because it wasn't even a sparkle in the inventor's eye during the mid-40s?

Ah, the old "mid-40's" trick OK, you got me, but as for the "sparkle" the Kellet Cobra XX-9 (Attack Helicopter) was used by the US in WWII. Not sure of it's armaments as little info is available online. Think it carried ONE bomb, maybe

[kragluver]

I recently finished reading the book Random Shots. The author was a US Army weapons tester and he talks about early development that led to the M61 rotary cannon used in all modern US fighters from F-104 through the F-22. (The F-35 uses a different cannon - still rotary though.) Anyway, what I found interesting is that the concept of the Gatling cannon for aircraft use dates back to late WW2 when first proposed and demonstrated by Melvin Johnson (of Johnson rifle fame). The story goes that Johnson actually borrowed an antique Gatling from the Colt museum and hooked it to an electric motor to demonstrate the extremely high rates of fire that could be achieved.

The M61 used in all current US fighters fires at a rate of up to 6000 rds/min. When firing, it sounds like a really fast, loud chain saw. Get on youtube and you can see firing demonstrations of the M61. It is also used in the shipboard CWIS weapons system.

[OldCurlyWolf]

beautiful plane.... still my favorite is the P-40 KittyHawk that the AVG's (Flying Tigers) flew in China

The P-40 is the Warhawk.

Depending on who was flying it, the P-40 was also called something else, among those names were Kittyhawk and Tomahawk, used by the UK and Soviets depending on the particular model.

[RetNavy]

The M61 used in all current US fighters fires at a rate of up to 6000 rds/min. When firing, it sounds like a really fast, loud chain saw. Get on youtube and you can see firing demonstrations of the M61. It is also used in the shipboard CWIS weapons system.

I worked on the Block 0 CIWS for over 14 years, both on board ship and shore duty.... it was hydraulic driven so shot at 3000rds/min... 50rds/sec... Block 1 was electrically driven and could shoot up to 6000rds/min. Never had a chance to empty the drum.... closeness was about 350 rds on a TDU... as with any weapons.... cleaning was the best part....


but since this thread is about aircraft.... got to love the B-17's with all of their armament too

[Dragonfighter]

I recently finished reading the book Random Shots. The author was a US Army weapons tester and he talks about early development that led to the M61 rotary cannon used in all modern US fighters from F-104 through the F-22. (The F-35 uses a different cannon - still rotary though.) Anyway, what I found interesting is that the concept of the Gatling cannon for aircraft use dates back to late WW2 when first proposed and demonstrated by Melvin Johnson (of Johnson rifle fame). The story goes that Johnson actually borrowed an antique Gatling from the Colt museum and hooked it to an electric motor to demonstrate the extremely high rates of fire that could be achieved.

The M61 used in all current US fighters fires at a rate of up to 6000 rds/min. When firing, it sounds like a really fast, loud chain saw. Get on youtube and you can see firing demonstrations of the M61. It is also used in the shipboard CWIS weapons system.

I was privileged to be selected to call in an "air strike" against a convoy of tank shells on the range at Bragg (some kind of demo for VIPs). From PuP to Cleared In Hot to Clear was maybe a minute. He cut loose with 5 or six quick bursts of those D/U rounds and nothing but rubble was left when the dust settled. IMPRESSIVE. The grin on my face couldn't have looked professional but it was the most fun I ever had with a radio.

Added in Edit: A-10

[Scott B.]

CIWS does leave an impression when it fires, at both ends :-)

If this de/evolves into a favorite acft thread...

B-17 - one grandfather was a navigator, KIA over Germany, been a passion since I was old enough to understand.
F-104 - questionable reputation, but first time I saw one of those silver rockets I thought it was the coolest thing in the world.
EC-121 - Triple tails, Connie curves, and that wonderfully strange (to a kid) vertical radome.

[Dragonfighter]

beautiful plane.... still my favorite is the P-40 KittyHawk that the AVG's (Flying Tigers) flew in China

The P-40 is the Warhawk.

AND the Tomahawk AND Kittyhawk - as issued to the RAF. Added in Edit: There also was a variant on the air frame called the F-20, also a Warhawk.

[kragluver]

I worked on the Block 0 CIWS for over 14 years, both on board ship and shore duty.... it was hydraulic driven so shot at 3000rds/min... 50rds/sec... Block 1 was electrically driven and could shoot up to 6000rds/min. Never had a chance to empty the drum.... closeness was about 350 rds on a TDU... as with any weapons.... cleaning was the best part....

Right - I believe there is a rate selector switch for the M61 gun in fighters as well. The F-16 for instance only carries 550 rds of 20mm. It is used in very short bursts. The idea for aerial gunnery is you get a pattern of lead out there like a shotgun.

The CIWS is an amazing weapons system with its automated radar directed fire control system. There is a video I ran across on youtube a while back that showed test footage of a more advanced version of the CIWS - I don't think it was the original Vulcan cannon... Anyway, in the high speed video they are shooting at a low altitude cruise missile target drone. The first round misses and impacts the water behind the target. The second round destroys the target drone. The rest of the rounds from the 2-3 second burst just serve to chop up the debris. Its a very impressive video - wish I could find it again!