According to NBC5 tonight, the Fort Worth PD has apologized for participating in this travesty. It will be interesting to see what fallout happens from it tomorrow.
I'm not done with them. I just knew that the PD was not going to allow the Feds to block a road in Ft. Worth without their knowledge. I'm angry about the stop and I'm even madder that they initially denied being part of it.
Something I didn’t know about – the “passive alcohol sensor.” So now instead of relying on the officer’s nose to smell alcohol, the police have a device that looks and operates like a flashlight but also detects trace amounts of alcohol on breath without a subject’s direct participation. A positive reading would be probable cause upon which to detain, question, and perform further tests on a subject.
Learn something new every day. No wonder cops on some YouTube videos get really angry when someone refuses to roll down the window more than just a few inches – not enough “indirect participation” going on.
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -- James Madison
Imagine this: a person walks up to your stopped car, holding a clipboard in both of his hands, and waits until you roll down your window. As he moves a bit closer to the open window, a small sampling port on the underside of his clipboard vacumes in a little bit of your breath (you naturally turned your head to speak to the man, being the polite person you are). That little bit of your air sample is now being analyzed by a device mounted on the top of the clipboard, and you can't see it.
There have been other passive breath-alcohol sensors deployed before - one that I'm familiar with looks like a normal Kel-light flashlight, with a sensor probe extended from the lens covering slightly. The operator merely presses a button on the flashlight when he wants to sample the ambient air where he is (presumably as he sticks the flashlight inside your open window after he stopped you on the highway), and the device gives an indication of "yes, ETOH (ethyl alcohol) is present in the sample or no, ETOH is not present".
The device is calibrated so that any set amount of ETOH present in the sample will indicate a positive result - and that gives the officer probable cause that you (or someone in your vehicle) has been drinking and outgassing alcohol fumes.
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This is bad on so many fronts. It's a shame cops would go long with such as this. If it was completely voluntary, why do they think people on drugs would voluntarily give samples.
What does DNA testing have to do with drugs and being under the influence while driving. It's a shame such as this is going on in our country.
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mojo84 wrote:This is bad on so many fronts. It's a shame cops would go long with such as this. If it was completely voluntary, why do they think people on drugs would voluntarily give samples.
What does DNA testing have to do with drugs and being under the influence while driving. It's a shame such as this is going on in our country.
In the scheme of things, this police conduct is worse than any of the recent shootings the police have been criticized for. In those cases a quick decision had to be made and mistakes are inevitable. Here we have the police knowingly participating in illegal action at the behest of the Feds --not even Federal law enforcement, but a bunch of bureaucrats with no law enforcement authority. When you read about local law enforcement arresting someone for having 8 rounds in a magazine, as in New York, and see the police cooperating in such a blatant disregard for the Constitution, it makes you wonder how far they'll go if the Feds decide to say, confiscate "assault rifles."
"Journalism, n. A job for people who flunked out of STEM courses, enjoy making up stories, and have no detectable integrity or morals."
This is bad on so many levels....What in this world? An apology is not good enough. They detained people without probable cause, held them without consent, and performed searches on them. If I did that I would be charged with quite a few crimes. If this is permitted to go unchecked and unpunished we are living in a light handed police state that turns heavy handed quite quickly. Not ok.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
WOW...this is just wrong...on every level. Federal "Contractors" out doing invasive procedures to collect breath/blood/DNA samples from people just driving down the street...WRONG. FWPD first denying any involvement or knowledge of their officers being involved...WRONG. FWPD later saying off-duty officers were involved and were manning a roadblock with patrol cars and flashing lights directing motorists into the parking lot...WRONG. She indicated to contractors she wanted to keep going and was directed into a parking spot...as she said: "it sure didn't feel voluntary". It sure doesn't look or sound like it was voluntary either...because it wasn't...WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
"I looked out under the sun and saw that the race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong" Ecclesiastes 9:11
"The race may not always go to the swift or the battle to the strong, but that's the way the smart money bets" Damon Runyon
I would say unbelievable...but things like this seem to happen more frequently these days. I wonder what would have happened if the lady interviewed had pulled into a parking spot, but refused to roll down her window? Would the "off-duty" officers have tried to force her to roll down her window and possibly arrest her for failure to comply with their orders? I can see that going wrong like the traffic stop in NM....
All over something that is clearly a 4th Amendment violation.
Further to gthaustex question, what would the "off duty" cops have done if they detected someone that was intoxicated?
Things like this just further the distrust between the police/government and us mere citizens.
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Diesel42 wrote:IMO, Fort Worth needs a new police chief.
This is a great situation for "what did he know and when did he know it." The Federal government is completely out of control and oblivious to the protections under the Constitution. Until we understand specifically how the Ft. Worth PD was involved in the Federal mess, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. If the Feds said "we are setting up this sting on your street and you can either be there or we'll do it without you", that is far different than the Feds seeking and obtaining advanced agreement with the full knowledge of the PD's chain of command. I'm guessing that there is PD liaison with Federal departments and that this one could have been slipped in without PD commanders knowing the complete intent. A "traffic survey" is far different that the illegal and coerced (voluntary my foot) obtaining of citizen information.
The most chilling part of this for me was the idea that it was Federal "contractors", a word that I could easily substitute with "mercenaries", and not even Federal law enforcement officials who were involved.
gthaustex wrote:I would say unbelievable...but things like this seem to happen more frequently these days. I wonder what would have happened if the lady interviewed had pulled into a parking spot, but refused to roll down her window? Would the "off-duty" officers have tried to force her to roll down her window and possibly arrest her for failure to comply with their orders? I can see that going wrong like the traffic stop in NM....
All over something that is clearly a 4th Amendment violation.
My first thought is to pull into the parking spot, lock the doors, and lay on the horn and/or call 9-1-1 to report I'm being held against my will by armed (I assume) individuals.
Realistically, I might go for some level of compliance to get away and then raise a huge stink afterward. I don't think they should get away with it, but I always have my kids with me and I'm not willing to risk them getting hurt if I can put up a fight in a safer way later.
gthaustex wrote:I would say unbelievable...but things like this seem to happen more frequently these days. I wonder what would have happened if the lady interviewed had pulled into a parking spot, but refused to roll down her window? Would the "off-duty" officers have tried to force her to roll down her window and possibly arrest her for failure to comply with their orders? I can see that going wrong like the traffic stop in NM....
All over something that is clearly a 4th Amendment violation.
My first thought is to pull into the parking spot, lock the doors, and lay on the horn and/or call 9-1-1 to report I'm being held against my will by armed (I assume) individuals.
Realistically, I might go for some level of compliance to get away and then raise a huge stink afterward. I don't think they should get away with it, but I always have my kids with me and I'm not willing to risk them getting hurt if I can put up a fight in a safer way later.
See this is where most of us are at. The feds and to some extent local LEO operate with a shield of litigious protection. I think that is what "they" whoever "they" are is counting on. We just want to be left alone and left to raise our kids and be with our families. Those that come up with these schemes are counting on that. I have no solutions to this, but it is what it is.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
