Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[Keith B]

OK, this may explain the whole thing

[treadlightly]

Sons of Arthritis, Ruckus Amongus, Jade Helm bikers, I can see I'm late to the party. Laughter is the best medicine for what ails you. It's even got a role in fighting murder, as paradoxical as that sounds.

Maybe there's been some progress. Surely the dignity of wearing a Texas rocker is dulled. One part of me wishes Texas rockers would appear everywhere, a wiser part of me wouldn't wear a Texas rocker on a bet. It's not the State's fault, but I'm at antipodes from what a Texas rocker currently stands for in the public eye.

Spit on a Texas rocker? No need to. The Bandidos already did.

Interesting, too, that nobody seems to be prosecuting the Bandidos for selling Texas. Kind of like selling the Brooklyn Bridge, isn't it?

Hmm.... Maybe a call to the Bexar District Attorney is in order. I'll say that since the Bandidos can sell Texas without drawing fire, so to speak, I figure I can sell Bexar. If they want to continue using their county name on letterhead I'd like them to send $10,000 a month to me.

Anybody want Travis county? I'll sign over any rights I have over the ownership of Travis county for a hundred grand, one time. No? Trade even for a Hi-Point? A couple of cankered .32 ACP wadcutters? Anything?

Dang. No takers. Must be all the liberals in Austin, running the price down.

[Oldgringo]

Alright folks, this is getting to the personal attack level. Stop now or this will be locked.

I was wonderin' when this was coming a couple, three pages ago?

[Abraham]

I'd like to see this thread continue.

Perhaps, I'll finally understand why grown men want to be seen as some sort of romantic outlaws, when in fact they're either petty criminals or even working stiffs.

And maybe, I've just realized why they enact their adolescent behavior. Who finds being a tire buster cool? Or, a road repair guy or whatever low paying blue collar job as cool? No one, that's who. But, slap on outlaw duds and ride a hog, and hoo-boy your most juvenile dreams can come true. People see them and think wow, real live outlaws like you see in the movies. COOL!

They see themselves as unique, independent rebellious souls, except they dress alike enough to call what they wear a uniform and act alike.

Independent thinkers?

Not even close!

Among themselves they're as conventional as the most bourgeois burgher, with high school harry dreams of being recognized as cool guys when in fact their ridiculous looks and behavior is hapless and neurotic.

[treadlightly]

Maybe a call to the Bexar District Attorney is in order. I'll say that since the Bandidos can sell Texas without drawing fire, so to speak, I figure I can sell Bexar.

The Bexar County DA doesn't initiate investigations. A law enforcement agency has to start things. I didn't realize that.

They referred me to the Texas Rangers, who just might pay big bucks for the licensed right to use Texas on their letterhead, badges, etc.

I'm going to be RICH!!!!

[philip964]

I ate at Twin Peaks in Houston last night. Got a parking space, didn't have to use valet. Place was not crowded inside at all. Food was good and reasonably priced like the last time I was there. The cute waitress said the slow night was due to the weather. There were no motorcycles outside.

[The Annoyed Man]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This information is to educate you on the outlaw 1%er lifestyle, not to scare you away from riding. (And remember, please think before you respond to anything, don't do any bashing of anyone or any club on the e groups, forums or at any bars.) First off, the likelihood of anyone getting into a scrape with outlaws/1%er”s is slim to none unless you frequent their bars or hangouts. But make no mistake, this is very real. Since most bike clubs are “NOT” outlaw clubs, they will have no issue with you as long as you stay out of their “business” and follow biker protocol. There is rarely a problem at a public event or poker run but it is always possible. So lets start with the "Rocker" you hear about. The rocker is in the form of a half moon, for lack of a better term. Similar to the bottom of a rocking chair. If you think about it, you have all seen photos of "Hells Angels" and the way the patches are arched above and below the center patch. MC (Motorcycle Club) patch and the 1% diamond will also be found on their Cut (also referred to as Colors). There are also many other patches some clubs wear that only mean something to that particular club.

The 1% diamond is the key to identifying a 1%er. It is a patch in the shape of a diamond with “1%” on it. That is mostly worn on the left shoulder but is seen on the back of their colors also. They, (1%er's) ride mostly Harley’s only, along with their support clubs and almost all outlaw clubs, but that's another story. Flying a certain style of patch on the back of colors is how the outlaws identify who is or is not claiming territory. Territory is a huge issue and they will fight and/or kill over it if it comes to that. It’s just “Business”. The rocker or the bar style patch is not acceptable to 1%er's unless approved by them. And just because an M/C club wears “Rocker” or “Bar” style patch’s that doesn’t make them an outlaw club. You just have to learn who is who but your officers should have some knowledge on that.

As I said, most clubs are not outlaw clubs and don’t wear a top and bottom rocker. They may have a top rocker but if they have a bottom patch it will not have State, City or County wording on it , many times it will be the member’s road name. For example any club in Texas (unless it’s grand fathered by the Bandido’s) that’s not affiliated with Bandidos, (and other than a police club) are not allowed to fly the "Texas" patch ("Bar" or "Rocker") on the back. They have even forced some police clubs to remove the Texas rocker. Also, 99% of Bandido support clubs cannot wear Texas on the back. The Bandidos claim that right as an MC (Motorcycle Club) and will aggressively approach you if you are seen wearing it on the back of your colors. Most states have its dominant 1% club where the same rule applies. The Bandidos are the dominant club in Texas as well as several other states.

They STILL have no LEGAL authority to enforce this, and therefore, all of their enforcement efforts are a gang-related criminal activity. Any POLICE club that removed their rockers were guilty of a giant FAIL.

Until someone can show me where the Banditos have LEGAL exclusive use of this rocker, as recognized under copyright or other law, I will continue to maintain that they would be a criminal gang for enforcing their claim, even if they were guilty of no other crimes.

The quoted article sounds like another apologist. I hate apologists.

[ShootDontTalk]

I'm also going to add, the dust-up with the PGRs happened because an MC member approached a PGR rider about his patch. The PGR rider (reportedly) got mouthy, the MC member took it to his club Pres, who took it to the CoC. The PGR rider was undoubtedly simply asserting his rights.

In my opinion, silly fuss over something that had nothing to do with the mission.

With all due respect, honoring a soldier who gave his life defending our freedom, rights, and way of life by surrendering those very rights and freedoms to a criminal gang bent on extortion and the threat of violence, seems to me to make for kind of a strange "mission." I don't think I want any part of that.

[The Annoyed Man]

Sons of Arthritis, Ruckus Amongus, Jade Helm bikers, I can see I'm late to the party. Laughter is the best medicine for what ails you. It's even got a role in fighting murder, as paradoxical as that sounds.

Maybe there's been some progress. Surely the dignity of wearing a Texas rocker is dulled. One part of me wishes Texas rockers would appear everywhere, a wiser part of me wouldn't wear a Texas rocker on a bet. It's not the State's fault, but I'm at antipodes from what a Texas rocker currently stands for in the public eye.

Spit on a Texas rocker? No need to. The Bandidos already did.

Interesting, too, that nobody seems to be prosecuting the Bandidos for selling Texas. Kind of like selling the Brooklyn Bridge, isn't it?

Hmm.... Maybe a call to the Bexar District Attorney is in order. I'll say that since the Bandidos can sell Texas without drawing fire, so to speak, I figure I can sell Bexar. If they want to continue using their county name on letterhead I'd like them to send $10,000 a month to me.

Anybody want Travis county? I'll sign over any rights I have over the ownership of Travis county for a hundred grand, one time. No? Trade even for a Hi-Point? A couple of cankered .32 ACP wadcutters? Anything?

Dang. No takers. Must be all the liberals in Austin, running the price down.

Best post in the thread so far.

I have first dibs and I'm claiming all rights over any uses of "Tarrant County", "Grapevine", and "DFW". No Bandito better put one of those rockers under his colors, or I'm going to open an arthritic can of whuppass on him. If I tap on him long enough, he'll die some day.

[ScooterSissy]

I'm also going to add, the dust-up with the PGRs happened because an MC member approached a PGR rider about his patch. The PGR rider (reportedly) got mouthy, the MC member took it to his club Pres, who took it to the CoC. The PGR rider was undoubtedly simply asserting his rights.

In my opinion, silly fuss over something that had nothing to do with the mission.

With all due respect, honoring a soldier who gave his life defending our freedom, rights, and way of life by surrendering those very rights and freedoms to a criminal gang bent on extortion and the threat of violence, seems to me to make for kind of a strange "mission." I don't think I want any part of that.

then I guess we won't be seeing you on the line. However, the families that I personally have interacted with - the families of those heroes you mentioned - have a different view.

For what it's worth, we also suppress our constitutional rights to respond to the "protestors" when they show up; again for the same reason. Disrupting a funeral would be counter to the mission.

[treadlightly]

Ok, if racketeering law could be applied against the Bandidos, assuming due process and all that, law enforcement against them would surely be an easier job.

I just emailed the Texas Rangers, including in part:

If it’s not racketeering and completely legal for the Bandidos to charge licensing fees for Texas, much in the manner of selling the Brooklyn Bridge, couldn’t I do the same?

Setting aside the question of whether you would actually pay for such silliness, would it be legal for me to offer to license the word “Texas” to the Texas Rangers for your use on letterhead, badges, jackets, vests, cuts, tattoos, and wherever else you wanted?

If – and only if – such an offer is legal, I would have a deal for you. The Bandidos sold Texas to the Cossacks for $10,000 a month, apparently on pain of violent retribution. If it was legal to make the offer I’d let the Rangers have Texas for just $9599.99 (monthly) and throw in New Mexico and Arizona to boot.

I’d pitch in California, bless their hearts, but I think I’ll probably have to pay someone to tow it away. They’re a mess.

If racketeering law means anything, it should apply to a protection racket. Selling a state name on pain of violence is surely extortion. With some states I'd give them a buyer-beware benefit of the doubt, but Texas? Don't mess with the obvious.

Hopefully they will reply.

[VMI77]

I don't give a cup of warm spit for what someone else says I can wear, and frankly, I think it is shameful that anyone would be an apologist for this kind of crap. Someone is going to tell me that a club of dirtbags with a membership of only 2300 (worldwide) gets to tell a state with 27 MILLION people what they can and can't wear? That dog won't hunt, and shame on anybody who says that it should.

TAM, please look back and see where I said "should". If I did, it was a typo. I'm talking about the way things are, not the way they should be.

It's interesting, seems most folks on here have the attitude that the Cossacks, the MC that had the most die, were "scum" or "thugs"; yet this is the very attitude they had, and was largely the reason they've been at "war" with the Bandidos, and had 7 or 8 of their members die - the attitude that no one was going to tell them what rocker they could wear.

Now, are we suddenly going to see a change in attitude from forum members, and see them pronounced heroes for standing up for what they believe?

The "dirtbags" I referenced were the Banditos, which the article I quoted described as having a membership of 2300 "worldwide". I never referenced the Cossaks, who, by my reconning came to make peace. Re read my post.

The state of Texas has never granted the Banditos a charter to collect a fee for the privilege of putting a Texas rocker on their colors. Therefore, when they extort a fee backed up by an implied (and apparently quite real) threat of violence for "permission" to wear the rocker, that makes them a true criminal enterprise.......even if they never ran guns or sold drugs or murdered rivals, or any of the other crimes of which they are suspected. They have no LEGAL authority to demand or collect the fee, and they have no LEGAL authority to enforce their claim. That makes them a criminal gang. Period.

Near as I can tell, while the Cossaks may not be sweet little angels, they are willing to live and let live. As a philosophical libertarian, I say good for them. But, until the state grants them exclusive use of the word "Texas" on a rocker and authority to restrict its use, the Banditos club needs to be eradicated......just like any other criminal organization.

While I might agree that by the power of state violence it may be able to grant such authority or forcefully restrict such usage, the state has no more right to enforce such a claim than you or I. The State is not a private entity that can claim a trademark or copyright or patent.

[VMI77]

I think it's more along the lines of (the 99%, mind you) - "we're imitating them (and they are to a large degree), so if we're playing their game, we should play by their rules."

Better you said it than me. Again, thanks for your honesty.

I'll try another analogy. If someone donned camos that looked very much like military attire, but was slightly different; and then started adding ribbons that were very similar to real military ribbons, but still slightly different; what do you think the chances are that a vet somewhere would tell that person to take them off?

Wonder what the opinion of those on here would be of the poser?

The analogy again breaks down - but you have found a kernel of truth. Posing as a veteran is a real crime that can land you in jail. And yes, people on here probably would not condone anyone posing as one. They also question the sanity of anyone who dresses up like an outlaw biker and sits down to eat a burger with a couple hundred armed gang members. See the connection?

The truth is people (including the rest of the world) paint us by the company we keep and the look we strive for. If I decided to dress up in man-Jammie's, let my beard grow out, sling my AK-47 look alike and walk the streets in company with 20 or 30 other real terrorists, people would probably perceive me to be a terrorist. What would I gain for myself besides a pot full of trouble? Nothing. A lot of real pain for being a make believe terrorist-or am I make believe?

I could dress up like a HAngel, let my beard grow out, let my hair get scraggly, don the leathers and ride my Harley around with some real HAngels. The critical issue is not what the outlaw bikers think of me, but what millions of non-bikers who see the group roaring down the street think of me. Am I one of them? Yes. Why? Because I associate with them. What do I gain from pretending to be a HAngel? Nothing good.

Not criticizing because I wasn't there, but I really doubt there were was any evangelizing by Christians going on when the shooting started. I suspect any "evangelizing" was being done by outlaw bikers just showing up.

Abraham...yours is an excellent question. There comes a point where all the look-alike, dress up pretending causes the focus to shift from eternity to the world. I don't think I want to have to stand before the Lord and explain why I was more interested in the bikes than the souls.

Actually, the SC has ruled that it is not a crime that can put you in jail.

[mojo84]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This information is to educate you on the outlaw 1%er lifestyle, not to scare you away from riding. (And remember, please think before you respond to anything, don't do any bashing of anyone or any club on the e groups, forums or at any bars.) First off, the likelihood of anyone getting into a scrape with outlaws/1%er”s is slim to none unless you frequent their bars or hangouts. But make no mistake, this is very real. Since most bike clubs are “NOT” outlaw clubs, they will have no issue with you as long as you stay out of their “business” and follow biker protocol. There is rarely a problem at a public event or poker run but it is always possible. So lets start with the "Rocker" you hear about. The rocker is in the form of a half moon, for lack of a better term. Similar to the bottom of a rocking chair. If you think about it, you have all seen photos of "Hells Angels" and the way the patches are arched above and below the center patch. MC (Motorcycle Club) patch and the 1% diamond will also be found on their Cut (also referred to as Colors). There are also many other patches some clubs wear that only mean something to that particular club.

The 1% diamond is the key to identifying a 1%er. It is a patch in the shape of a diamond with “1%” on it. That is mostly worn on the left shoulder but is seen on the back of their colors also. They, (1%er's) ride mostly Harley’s only, along with their support clubs and almost all outlaw clubs, but that's another story. Flying a certain style of patch on the back of colors is how the outlaws identify who is or is not claiming territory. Territory is a huge issue and they will fight and/or kill over it if it comes to that. It’s just “Business”. The rocker or the bar style patch is not acceptable to 1%er's unless approved by them. And just because an M/C club wears “Rocker” or “Bar” style patch’s that doesn’t make them an outlaw club. You just have to learn who is who but your officers should have some knowledge on that.

As I said, most clubs are not outlaw clubs and don’t wear a top and bottom rocker. They may have a top rocker but if they have a bottom patch it will not have State, City or County wording on it , many times it will be the member’s road name. For example any club in Texas (unless it’s grand fathered by the Bandido’s) that’s not affiliated with Bandidos, (and other than a police club) are not allowed to fly the "Texas" patch ("Bar" or "Rocker") on the back. They have even forced some police clubs to remove the Texas rocker. Also, 99% of Bandido support clubs cannot wear Texas on the back. The Bandidos claim that right as an MC (Motorcycle Club) and will aggressively approach you if you are seen wearing it on the back of your colors. Most states have its dominant 1% club where the same rule applies. The Bandidos are the dominant club in Texas as well as several other states.

They STILL have no LEGAL authority to enforce this, and therefore, all of their enforcement efforts are a gang-related criminal activity. Any POLICE club that removed their rockers were guilty of a giant FAIL.

Until someone can show me where the Banditos have LEGAL exclusive use of this rocker, as recognized under copyright or other law, I will continue to maintain that they would be a criminal gang for enforcing their claim, even if they were guilty of no other crimes.

The quoted article sounds like another apologist. I hate apologists.

I agree 100%. They do not have any legal right or authority. I do not condone it and I do not believe people should be subjected to their "rules". I only posted that to show what goes on in reality and what that subculture does. That's why I have ZERO sympathy for the thugs that were killed or the one's that are in jail. If people chose that lifestyle and to run with those people, they accept all the consequences.

Of course he is an apologist. He is one of them. Sometimes when you want to understand someone else you have to look into their world.

I'm starting to think some are thinking I condone or approve or accept this lifestyle. If that's the case, you need to read my posts back in the early part of this thread. I have been as hard on the thugs as anyone and also acknowledge there is a difference between criminal motorcycle clubs/gangs and the weekend riding and social clubs. The ones involved in the shootout are criminals in my mind regardless what they say.

[ScooterSissy]

SS, this may say it in a way you can relate to better.

http://www.rcvsmc.net/id8.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This information is to educate you on the outlaw 1%er lifestyle, not to scare you away from riding. (And remember, please think before you respond to anything, don't do any bashing of anyone or any club on the e groups, forums or at any bars.) First off, the likelihood of anyone getting into a scrape with outlaws/1%er”s is slim to none unless you frequent their bars or hangouts. But make no mistake, this is very real. Since most bike clubs are “NOT” outlaw clubs, they will have no issue with you as long as you stay out of their “business” and follow biker protocol. There is rarely a problem at a public event or poker run but it is always possible. So lets start with the "Rocker" you hear about. The rocker is in the form of a half moon, for lack of a better term. Similar to the bottom of a rocking chair. If you think about it, you have all seen photos of "Hells Angels" and the way the patches are arched above and below the center patch. MC (Motorcycle Club) patch and the 1% diamond will also be found on their Cut (also referred to as Colors). There are also many other patches some clubs wear that only mean something to that particular club.

The 1% diamond is the key to identifying a 1%er. It is a patch in the shape of a diamond with “1%” on it. That is mostly worn on the left shoulder but is seen on the back of their colors also. They, (1%er's) ride mostly Harley’s only, along with their support clubs and almost all outlaw clubs, but that's another story. Flying a certain style of patch on the back of colors is how the outlaws identify who is or is not claiming territory. Territory is a huge issue and they will fight and/or kill over it if it comes to that. It’s just “Business”. The rocker or the bar style patch is not acceptable to 1%er's unless approved by them. And just because an M/C club wears “Rocker” or “Bar” style patch’s that doesn’t make them an outlaw club. You just have to learn who is who but your officers should have some knowledge on that.

As I said, most clubs are not outlaw clubs and don’t wear a top and bottom rocker. They may have a top rocker but if they have a bottom patch it will not have State, City or County wording on it , many times it will be the member’s road name. For example any club in Texas (unless it’s grand fathered by the Bandido’s) that’s not affiliated with Bandidos, (and other than a police club) are not allowed to fly the "Texas" patch ("Bar" or "Rocker") on the back. They have even forced some police clubs to remove the Texas rocker. Also, 99% of Bandido support clubs cannot wear Texas on the back. The Bandidos claim that right as an MC (Motorcycle Club) and will aggressively approach you if you are seen wearing it on the back of your colors. Most states have its dominant 1% club where the same rule applies. The Bandidos are the dominant club in Texas as well as several other states.

They STILL have no LEGAL authority to enforce this, and therefore, all of their enforcement efforts are a gang-related criminal activity. Any POLICE club that removed their rockers were guilty of a giant FAIL.

Until someone can show me where the Banditos have LEGAL exclusive use of this rocker, as recognized under copyright or other law, I will continue to maintain that they would be a criminal gang for enforcing their claim, even if they were guilty of no other crimes.

The quoted article sounds like another apologist. I hate apologists.

I agree 100%. They do not have any legal right or authority. I do not condone it and I do not believe people should be subjected to their "rules". I only posted that to show what goes on in reality and what that subculture does. That's why I have ZERO sympathy for the thugs that were killed or the one's that are in jail. If people chose that lifestyle and to run with those people, they accept all the consequences.

I ask again, weren't the Cossacks doing exactly what you say should be done, standing up for their rights?