Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[Oldgringo]

According to a story released by WFAA, Twin Peaks will no longer host bike nights at any of its 76 locations nationwide.

Imagine that.....

[cb1000rider]

Sorry you missed the obvious sarcasm. They are all criminal thugs and should be treated as such.

If that's true, why do some of the hold jobs that require background checks? Why do some of them have absolutely zero criminal history?
I could get to "most" are criminal thugs, best case. There is no doubt in my mind that they rounded up everyone that met a visual profile. If that's OK with you make sure you continue to dress and act like the majority - you should be safe. (I don't mean you specifically, Mojo)

"More than a dozen local men were among the 170 people arrested after the shootout, including Juan Carlos Garcia, 45, who is an engineer with the city of Austin’s Public Works Department. According to his Facebook page, he has been a member of the Guardians of the Children biker club and the Grim Guardian of Slaughter Creek. Police said neither groups are considered to be criminal in the Austin area."

"Also arrested was Theron J. Rhoten, 35, an Austin mechanic who drove to the meeting on a vintage Harley chopper, according to the Associated Press. He was with two other members of Vise Grip motorcycle club."

According to a story released by WFAA, Twin Peaks will no longer host bike nights at any of its 76 locations nationwide.

That's a good solution. Lets ban car shows too. Makes perfect sense to me. Motorcycles are the problem. No, wait.. It's the kind of people that own motorcycles. Where have we heard that before?
There are monthly bike nights all over the country that go by peacefully.. Overreaction and silly.

I'm curious to hear how you would have sorted out a massive crime-scene like that on the spot - what you would have done instead.

You do what the constitution and the law allow. Round them all up. You hold them for what the court has deemed a "reasonable" length of time, which I believe is 24 hours. After that, you charge the ones based on evidence and background. You let the rest go and pick them up later if necessary. This is what amounts to "indefinite" hold. Best case, it'll take a month to get trials just on the bail issue. If it's OK with you to be locked up for a month before you can even have a discussion on it, I'm afraid for this country.

What you don't do is hit them all with impossible bonds and ruin them financially based on zero evidence. Sure, they're catching some bad guys, but they're also destroying good guys too. If that's OK with you, I hope you're never in the wrong place, sitting next to the wrong person, or happen to be associated with *any* interest group that might be of government interest.. You know, like a gun owner.

[A-R]

I have not read through all the responses here (don't have the time), but if I'm correctly understanding the general gripe, might I suggest everyone thoroughly read, analyze, and understand in their entirety Chapters 6, 7, 15, 19, & 71 of the Texas Penal Code before providing any further "expert" commentary on the subject.

[ShootDontTalk]

Many years ago, my wife and I both owned motorcycles - Japanese. We saw an ad for a motorcycle rally and thought it might make a nice weekend ride. We loaded up our two small kids and rode off to a State park. When we arrived, the first thing we noticed was what looked like a gypsy camp on one side and families on the other side of the campground - all on motorcycles. As dusk fell, the activities at the "gypsy camp" took a decided turn for the worse. I won't go into much detail save for the drunken idiots doing doughnuts on the dirt road about 50 feet from where our kids were. We packed up and left.

I'm not going to paint everybody who rides a motorcycle with a broad brush. I am going to say that if you ride around with them knowing how they act at times, well I think you see what could happen. If you enjoy going to wild bars, you should expect bad things to happen sometimes. If you put on a Banditos or Cossacks color, bad things could happen.

As I get older, I learn that associating with people of questionable or unknown integrity is not really something I want to do. When bad things happen to good people who do associate with them, I can't really say they should be surprised. Just me though.

[VMI77]

Out of all the reports (not police reports) and pictures I have seen I have yet to see a gun or even gun cases close to one of the people that were killed. Most seemed to actually be on their bike riding away or starting to ride away. Reports also show that cameras inside dont actually catch the shooting but it can be heard when it starts and within 2 mins from when it started FBI and ATF with assault rifles are seen entering Twin Peaks on camera, I understand they were suppose to be around there already in hiding waiting but really less than 2 mins? Now don't get me wrong I'm not anti cop (have close friends and family that are HPD), nor am I anti biker as mentioned I have known many as far back as from a really young kid as we rented a place to the head of Texas Chapter back in late 60's to early 80's. Just what has come out and all just seems odd somewhat. Also noticed the one mod mention lawsuits, I myself would consider suing Waco PD and maybe FBI and ATF if possible. They say they knew and had word something was gonna happen, why not show up in force to start with? Have plenty of officers in uniform on site or even marked cars whatever to keep it from happening, not waiting till it happens risking citizens lives. Honestly we will probably never know exactly what happened as I don't trust FBI or ATF as they done been shown in past not to be honest, but I shouldn't really say that cause I'm not really one to cast an entire group of people just cause of some bad apples.


edited: Also seen a report that stated the weapon count which is suppose to be 118 handguns, 1 AK47. Don't remember the knife and pipe / chain count. But the report also stated that many of the handguns and the AK47 were found in vehicles in the parking lot.

My guess is that the FBI and ATF wanted exactly what happened to happen and played the Waco PD.

[jmra]

Can someone provide a link to the whole FBI and ATF entering within two minutes of the shooting? Everything I've seen stated it was 18 members of local PD and 4 state troopers.

[VMI77]

Sorry you missed the obvious sarcasm. They are all criminal thugs and should be treated as such.

If that's true, why do some of the hold jobs that require background checks? Why do some of them have absolutely zero criminal history?
I could get to "most" are criminal thugs, best case. There is no doubt in my mind that they rounded up everyone that met a visual profile. If that's OK with you make sure you continue to dress and act like the majority - you should be safe. (I don't mean you specifically, Mojo)

"More than a dozen local men were among the 170 people arrested after the shootout, including Juan Carlos Garcia, 45, who is an engineer with the city of Austin’s Public Works Department. According to his Facebook page, he has been a member of the Guardians of the Children biker club and the Grim Guardian of Slaughter Creek. Police said neither groups are considered to be criminal in the Austin area."

"Also arrested was Theron J. Rhoten, 35, an Austin mechanic who drove to the meeting on a vintage Harley chopper, according to the Associated Press. He was with two other members of Vise Grip motorcycle club."

According to a story released by WFAA, Twin Peaks will no longer host bike nights at any of its 76 locations nationwide.

That's a good solution. Lets ban car shows too. Makes perfect sense to me. Motorcycles are the problem. No, wait.. It's the kind of people that own motorcycles. Where have we heard that before?
There are monthly bike nights all over the country that go by peacefully.. Overreaction and silly.

I'm curious to hear how you would have sorted out a massive crime-scene like that on the spot - what you would have done instead.

You do what the constitution and the law allow. Round them all up. You hold them for what the court has deemed a "reasonable" length of time, which I believe is 24 hours. After that, you charge the ones based on evidence and background. You let the rest go and pick them up later if necessary. This is what amounts to "indefinite" hold. Best case, it'll take a month to get trials just on the bail issue. If it's OK with you to be locked up for a month before you can even have a discussion on it, I'm afraid for this country.

What you don't do is hit them all with impossible bonds and ruin them financially based on zero evidence. Sure, they're catching some bad guys, but they're also destroying good guys too. If that's OK with you, I hope you're never in the wrong place, sitting next to the wrong person, or happen to be associated with *any* interest group that might be of government interest.. You know, like a gun owner.

Also arrested was a guy that was riding into the parking lot as the gunfire started. How's the old saw go? A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged, and a liberal is a conservative who has been arrested?

At least they got another bad cop off the street:

One of the black men, Martin Lewis, 62, whose photos show him with a gray beard apparently dyed black on just one side, is a retired detective who spent 32 years with the San Antonio Police Department.

Someone needs to go back and review all this guy's cases.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/21/us/hu ... .html?_r=0

Fortunately, the police were expecting trouble, so I'm sure the video they took will allow them to sort it all out in the end. And they'll have images of all the gang members that will help in future investigations.

[cb1000rider]

Many years ago, my wife and I both owned motorcycles - Japanese. We saw an ad for a motorcycle rally and thought it might make a nice weekend ride. We loaded up our two small kids and rode off to a State park. When we arrived, the first thing we noticed was what looked like a gypsy camp on one side and families on the other side of the campground - all on motorcycles. As dusk fell, the activities at the "gypsy camp" took a decided turn for the worse. I won't go into much detail save for the drunken idiots doing doughnuts on the dirt road about 50 feet from where our kids were. We packed up and left.

I've ridden for years. I attended the ROT rally some years ago, it got pretty wild after dusk. The behavior was well tolerated by law enforcement as long as it stayed within the perimeter.. It's not a place where I'd take the kids after dusk, but it was more of a fairly wild party than a giant gathering of organized crime... If people of similar interests want to get a little wild, that's OK with me as long as they're doing it in the appropriate venue..... A state park isn't the appropriate venue.

[ShootDontTalk]

I agree. My point is that if you run with people who do that, you shouldn't be surprised if/when things go south.

Edit: I should add that I would be very disappointed to learn that the Patriot Guard and some of the Christian riders groups were there. As I write though something came to mind. A few years back during a Christian retreat, a guy was talking to me about his "Riders" church. I asked him what that was. He had a picture of the auditorium. Instead of a cross at the front, they had an old Harley mounted on the wall.

[Taypo]

Many years ago, my wife and I both owned motorcycles - Japanese. We saw an ad for a motorcycle rally and thought it might make a nice weekend ride. We loaded up our two small kids and rode off to a State park. When we arrived, the first thing we noticed was what looked like a gypsy camp on one side and families on the other side of the campground - all on motorcycles. As dusk fell, the activities at the "gypsy camp" took a decided turn for the worse. I won't go into much detail save for the drunken idiots doing doughnuts on the dirt road about 50 feet from where our kids were. We packed up and left.

I've ridden for years. I attended the ROT rally some years ago, it got pretty wild after dusk. The behavior was well tolerated by law enforcement as long as it stayed within the perimeter.. It's not a place where I'd take the kids after dusk, but it was more of a fairly wild party than a giant gathering of organized crime... If people of similar interests want to get a little wild, that's OK with me as long as they're doing it in the appropriate venue..... A state park isn't the appropriate venue.

Nor is a bar in the middle of a shopping plaza in broad daylight. If they'd have had their little conclave in private, nobody would have given a rats behind if they decided to go at it and everybody would have gone home. Instead, they're sitting in cells while the sympathizers blather on about what great people they are.

[TVGuy]

I agree. My point is that if you run with people who do that, you shouldn't be surprised if/when things go south.

Been my point as well all along.

[MechAg94]

Can someone provide a link to the whole FBI and ATF entering within two minutes of the shooting? Everything I've seen stated it was 18 members of local PD and 4 state troopers.

Yeah, I thought all the Federal guys came in later. At least the story given was that the local police wanted to prepare in case there was violence and had extra people on hand including people borrowed from surrounding counties. If the Feds were there at the beginning, I haven't seen that mentioned. Now there are some blogs that are alleging some things, but I don't know where they are getting their information.


It doesn't bother me that the police and others are playing up the weapons count. What I am a little surprised about is we haven't heard that they were starting to release bikers who were not involved with the violence as they review video. I guess I am surprised they are going ahead with charging all of them for organized crime.

[treadlightly]

This faithful family man just out for some brotherhood fellowship with a surrogate family of stuffed toy philanthropists is a bunch of crap. These were not your typical weekend warrior yuppie professional Christian midlife crisis motorcycle enthusiasts out for a ride and good natured fellowship stopping off for some nourishment, motorcycle law refresher and safety updates.

That's pretty much what I thought, at first. I might have been wrong.

I just got off the phone with a gentleman who owns a small maintenance company here in town. I've often said he's the most honest businessman around because he goes out of his way to be fair.

He rides a Harley, that much I knew. Today I found out he's a member of the Cossacks. I believe they have a bad element they need to get rid of, but at least the local Cossacks club here isn't all bad. Not if this guy is a member.

I'd ride with my Cossacks friend any day. I'd have to get back to you about his club buddies, some of which are now facing capital murder related charges, but I'm getting less comfortable with broad brushes.

Justice needs to prevail, and it needs to be individual. I see the need for identifying criminal organizations, but I also note the Cossacks are not included in the state's gang threat assessment report - https://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staf ... ssment.pdf

[gemini]

By the way, I've been known to hang out at Lukenbach, Castell and several other places when out riding. Even though I am on a Harley, no one would ever confuse me for an outlaw motorcycle gang membereven though I've had some conversations with some.

Really? Well, how about posting a picture of your bike. And, you survived having a conversations with outlaw motorcycle gang members?
amazing.