Shooting at Twin Peaks in Waco

[VMI77]

http://news.yahoo.com/wife-biker-inmate ... 05757.html

Before the shooting begins, the inside of the restaurant appears to be mostly empty. Bikers and other patrons can be seen walking to the windows facing the parking lot where most of the shooting happened.

When gunfire erupts at 12:24 p.m., most bikers, other patrons and staff immediately run away from the windows and into the restaurant's interior. At least three people can be seen holding handguns.

One camera angle shows bikers running into the men's bathroom. When there's no space left in the bathroom, they dash toward the kitchen.

Another camera angle, on the far side of the restaurant from the gunfire, shows patrons who are not wearing biker gear crawling behind tables toward the kitchen. At least three bikers appear to be gesturing for the patrons to crawl to safety.

Video shows police with assault rifles entering the front door at about the same time. As two officers enter, bikers can be seen lying on the floor with their hands spread.

Authorities on Sunday swept up around 170 bikers who descended on the restaurant. Among those arrested was Theron Rhoten, who had just pulled into the parking lot on his vintage Harley chopper when the bullets started flying.

My skepticism grows.

[VMI77]

Oh....and one of the Cossacks killed is an AA pilot

Criminal? Yeah...OK

I just did a quick google search a found dozens of examples of commercial pilots being charged with drug violations. So, yes an AA pilot can be a criminal.

Drug violations? There are two kinds of criminals in this country...actual criminals who transgress morally and injure others and those who are created by government prohibitionist laws. I don't consider someone busted for marijuana possession, for instance, to be a criminal, no matter what the government calls them. Rush Limbaugh is a "criminal" by the same standards, and while I"m not a fan of Limbaugh, I don''t consider him a criminal because he illegally took painkillers.

The bogus war on drugs has done more damage to liberty and the US Constitution that all terrorist acts combined....then again, so has the so called "war on terror."

Nope, this was the hard stuff. Ultimately the law is the law and who you consider to be a criminal isn't relevant. The point is the people in these gangs are criminals regardless of how you try to spin it.

Oh yeah....the law is the law Baloney. The law only applies to us peons. John Corazine....still free. These guys....admitted criminals...all free:http://thehill.com/policy/finance/24264 ... ion-cartel

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=230153

So they stole billions (more like hundreds of billions) over the years, organized behavior in the theft (that would commonly be called Racketeering!) and they will pay a fine that amounts to a small percentage of what they stole.

Nobody will go to prison as a result of this (admitted) criminal conduct and worse, none of the institutions will be broken up, lose their corporate charters or even be barred from one line of business.

An analog would be if I was to engage in a string of bank robberies with hundreds of other people, we steal a million dollars between us over a period of several years before we are eventually caught and when caught none of us go to prison or have any of the legal disabilities that a felony conviction normally brings applied to us; we are instead fined $50,000 and allowed to go on our way.

To anyone with a functioning moral compass it's increasingly who the law says is a criminal is what's irrelevant.

[TVGuy]

VMI77-

I appreciate your questioning of what is right and wrong in the sense of how our justice system acts or who they go after. That's a great trait and I do it much of the time as well.

In this particular case we are dealing with gang members. Did every person on-site at Twin Peaks in Waco shoot someone or carry an illegal weapon? No.

Each of these individuals that are members by choice of a 1% MC did in fact choose to be part of a criminal enterprise. A violent one at that. Maybe they got into it for their love of the two-wheeled ride at first and made some friends, but by the time they made full membership they knew exactly what they were getting into.

I've known some of these guys myself over the years. I worked with them and had somewhat of a friendship. I rode and worked on motorcycles with them on occasion. Every last one of them knew what was going on, as did I. I was young and dumb. Heck, I had their leader do electric work at my parents house and my mom loved him. He was a nice guy in those circumstances and a great electrician.

I never asked to be a member and they knew I had no interest. I was only around a few at a time and would never have gone to a rally with them. I knew better, I kept my distance.

Every last one of them were criminals. I came to learn over time that several had committed murder and various other violent crimes. Even if they didn't have a serious past, they would have had no problem doing something very wrong if needed.

I lost one of my best friends to that gang. He ended up with a 40 year federal sentence, which ended up being commuted to 4 years on a technicality. He was a differnt person before he met them and ended up doing things I could never imagine.

I can't get over people feeling sorry for these individuals. Every last member of one of the 1% MCs knew exactly what they were getting into and what the possibilities of being at Twin Peaks that day was.

[Keith B]

I haven't read all of the posts, but wanted to look at some other issues that will come out of this.

Twin Peaks will be lucky of their company survives this. Word is that the FBI and other agencies had alerted at least the local franchise that there was trouble on the horizon and they should not be allowing the gangs to congregate there. I heard that law enforcement was told the store had the right to serve whoever they chose and to basically buzz off. I don't know if the word ever got to corporate about the impending rumble, but corporate is already in damage control mode by trying to distance themselves from the Waco store by cancelling their franchise and claiming the location failed to follow corporate rules.

I don't know how many non-Bandito/Cossack related individuals were there at the time, but even if it was just employees required to work, I can see numerous civil lawsuits from them and others who were in close proximity when the riot broke out. The failure of the business to try to provide a safe environment for customers, workers and other general public in the area when they had warnings is pure negligence. IMO even a horse lawyer could win on this one and get some big settlements.

And, as suspected, it has started http://www.fox4news.com/story/29127215/ ... or-damages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[SkipB]

It looks like we may have a little break in the weather so I think I'll hook up the boat and head out to a lake for a few days of fishing. I'll leave all this stuff to those that have already figured it all out in their pretty little brains.

[TVGuy]

It looks like we may have a little break in the weather so I think I'll hook up the boat and head out to a lake for a few days of fishing. I'll leave all this stuff to those that have already figured it all out in their pretty little brains.

[Keith B]

It looks like we may have a little break in the weather so I think I'll hook up the boat and head out to a lake for a few days of fishing. I'll leave all this stuff to those that have already figured it all out in their pretty little brains.

So, why go to the lake? You can probably do just as well in a lot of the parking lots around the area.

[TVGuy]

It looks like we may have a little break in the weather so I think I'll hook up the boat and head out to a lake for a few days of fishing. I'll leave all this stuff to those that have already figured it all out in their pretty little brains.

So, why go to the lake? You can probably do just as well in a lot of the parking lots around the area.

Now that's accurate!

[SkipB]

True Keith very true

[mojo84]

Twin Peaks in Odessa had canceled their bike nights. Different franchisee I believe.

[cb1000rider]

It looks like we may have a little break in the weather so I think I'll hook up the boat and head out to a lake for a few days of fishing. I'll leave all this stuff to those that have already figured it all out in their pretty little brains.

Rain is killin' the fishing around here... Or maybe I just don't know where to fish when it's been raining!
I'd hold off.. gonna be another wet weekend.

[VMI77]

VMI77-

I appreciate your questioning of what is right and wrong in the sense of how our justice system acts or who they go after. That's a great trait and I do it much of the time as well.

In this particular case we are dealing with gang members. Did every person on-site at Twin Peaks in Waco shoot someone or carry an illegal weapon? No.

Each of these individuals that are members by choice of a 1% MC did in fact choose to be part of a criminal enterprise. A violent one at that. Maybe they got into it for their love of the two-wheeled ride at first and made some friends, but by the time they made full membership they knew exactly what they were getting into.

I've known some of these guys myself over the years. I worked with them and had somewhat of a friendship. I rode and worked on motorcycles with them on occasion. Every last one of them knew what was going on, as did I. I was young and dumb. Heck, I had their leader do electric work at my parents house and my mom loved him. He was a nice guy in those circumstances and a great electrician.

I never asked to be a member and they knew I had no interest. I was only around a few at a time and would never have gone to a rally with them. I knew better, I kept my distance.

Every last one of them were criminals. I came to learn over time that several had committed murder and various other violent crimes. Even if they didn't have a serious past, they would have had no problem doing something very wrong if needed.

I lost one of my best friends to that gang. He ended up with a 40 year federal sentence, which ended up being commuted to 4 years on a technicality. He was a differnt person before he met them and ended up doing things I could never imagine.

I can't get over people feeling sorry for these individuals. Every last member of one of the 1% MCs knew exactly what they were getting into and what the possibilities of being at Twin Peaks that day was.

Don't mistake my comments as feeling sorry for gang members. My comments are motivated for the most part by: 1) my belief in the US Constitution as the best governing document in the history of mankind and the principles it embodies; 2) my disgust for the MSM; 3) the inherent skepticism of government that served our Founders; and 4) my increasing distrust of government at all levels, but particularly at the Federal level.

Fast and Furious put guns in the hands of Mexican gangs. Years before that happened the FBI, in PATCON (Patriot-conspiracy), used one of the same gun stores as in F&F, Lone Wolf, to put guns in the hands of supposed "ultra-libertarian" and "right-wing extremists" including motorcycle gangs. This was under such wonderful and principled people as Eric Holder, the Clintons, and Janet Reno, and a lot of the PATCON stuff took place in Texas. I'm highly suspicious of anything involving the FBI, foreground or background, especially under a left-leaning administration and when it has to do with guns. Mojo posted a list of incidents monitored by the FBI. Some were at least as potentially dangerous, if not more so, than the Hutaree militia, yet the FBI rounded up and arrested the Hutaree and lets the MC gangs run free? What's wrong with this picture?

Australia recently passed some kind of "anti-gang" bill supposedly directed against motorcycle gangs. From what I've read it is so broadly written that it can be used against the members of practically any organization. We've got a president that praises Australian gun control. I'm highly suspicious about how this event was possibly orchestrated by the Feds (FBI and ATF) or will simply be used by the Feds as a pretext for the exact kind of legislation passed in Australia. How come we don't see this kind of attention to the gangs in LA or very dangerous gangs like MS-13? You put motorcycle gangs together with PATCON and you have to wonder if this isn't ultimately going to serve as a pretext for legislation ostensibly targeting a real group of bad guys, but really targeting Christians, libertarians, conservatives, and any other possible political opposition to the progressive utopia.

Those who control the Federal government for the most part hate the Constitution, hate Christians, hate libertarians and conservatives, hate veterans (who tend to be libertarians and conservatives who know how to fight), and hate gun owners.

[treadlightly]

I don't have permission to post this, but it's a cut-and-paste from a public Facebook page. Google "Groesbeck PD Facebook" and you can find it.

Groesbeck is about 40 miles east of Waco. It's a settled community, but also has what every community has - a few rowdy no-goods who commit every crime in the book. They aren't the ones who define the city.

Waco, by the way, is still clouded by a Police request that motorcyclists stay off the streets.

Here's what Groesbeck Police Chief Henson had to say:

In light of the events that occurred in Waco recently, we want to remind the public that not all motorcycle clubs are criminal or have a gang mentality. As peace officers, we are often subjected to judgment and criticism based on the actions of a few in situations that often occur in other areas of the country. We have seen this same condemnation applied to teachers, doctors, religious leaders, attorneys, political leaders and anyone else commonly in the public eye. We are aware that we have several motorcycle clubs and riders in our community. They include casual weekend riders, faith-based clubs, law enforcement clubs and others who have formed an alliance for the enjoyment of riding motorcycles. These are some of the most charitable and community oriented groups in the area. The Groesbeck Police Department does not condemn them nor do we consider them a threat based on the incident in Waco and we ask that you do the same.

I don't think he's a motorcycle enthusiast. I believe his thoughts are directed by a strong moral compass.

Groesbeck is a nice place to stay if you're thinking of visiting nearby Fort Parker. Great history excursion for the kids, or, Lake Limestone offers great fishing in a large, quiet lake free from the behavior you see in more urban water.

Ride safe.

[mojo84]

I think the Groesbeck chief is dead on in his comments and opinion.

I haven't seen anything to make me believe the noncriminal groups were part of the mêlée Sunday.

[Jumping Frog]

I think what we can learn from Waco is that Assault Motorcycles cause crime. You never see Minivan gangs killing each other. If we just ban motorcycles, we'll prevent this kind of motorcycle-related killing. And it's not as if anyone really needs a motorcycle. Remember: The motorcycle you own is the motorcycle most likely to kill you.

- See more at: http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com/blog/blog/MZW#.dpuf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;