Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Kyle

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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#61

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

EEllis wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
EEllis wrote:The idea that JV is going after a poor widow is pure fantasy.
I don't know anything about the lawsuit, other than what has been in the media. Even if Chris' wife wasn't a named party, Ventura was going after her as she is the beneficiary of his estate. Whatever he takes from Chris' estate is something his widow will not receive.

On the subject of fantasy, any finding by a jury of unjust enrichment due to the inclusion of the Kyle/Ventura incident, if any, is pure fantasy. There's no way to provide reliable evidence as to how much more money was generated by the inclusion of that event in the book. If the case had been filed and tried in Texas, it's doubtful the jury would have even seen that question in the jury charge. We correctly don't allow recovery of speculative damages.

As I said before, I didn't see the evidence or hear the testimony, but I suspect the verdict was influenced by the fact that it was tried in Minnesota (Ventura country) and the defendant was not a favorite son. I may be wrong, but there must be some explanation for the jury award on purely speculative damages.

Chas.
Nothing I'm seeing makes me think that JV had any preferential treatment or that his popularity affected him in any positive way. During this trial his celebrity works against him by raising the burden of proof and he still managed to convince 8 out of 10 and convince them that he was do considerable recompense. But even tho people haven't seen the evidence it must be the wrong verdict. Going by the response here it's a good thing the trial wasn't it Texas because I don't see how JV could have a fair hearing and that just saddens me. As to the comment you responded to my point was that in its entirety the award would probably be worth maybe a third of what this book has brought to the estate so far leaving the widow anything but poor regardless of the end result.
If you can't see that being a hometown plaintiff gives one an advantage over an absentee defendant, then you simply don't understand the dynamics of jury trials. That's the entire justification for being able to get state claims into federal court under a diversity theory, but even that's a joke. The jury comes from the same pool of citizens and the judge almost always comes from a state court bench. So eliminating local bias by trying the case in federal court instead of state court is a farce.

I don't know where you are getting the 1/3 percentage for unjust enrichment, but regardless is unfounded. There simply is no way to get reliable evidence to prove that, but for the Ventura incident, the book would have generated only $X as opposed to $Y with the incident included. That's why Texas has a strong rule against speculative damages; we don't let juries award money damages on a hunch or junk science.

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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#62

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The Annoyed Man wrote:Not that I'm any kind of fan of JV's, but I want to correct an impression about UDT's......the idea that they seldom see combat. I don't remember the exact number, but there were somewhere around 120 UDT's killed at Normandy.......by enemy fire. At Iwo Jima, where my dad fought, there were a dozen or more UDT's killed. Nearly every island assault in the Pacific resulted in UDT KIA. They may not have seen that much action during the Vietnam war because of the naissance of the SEAL teams, but it would be wrong to say that they were never combat deployed, or killed in action due to enemy fire.
In Vietnam the UDTs did hydrographic work, patrolling of rivers and deltas and destruction of fortifications, etc. The SEALS saw combat up close and personal. There were some engagements of UDT during the Vietnam war and they suffered one KIA. The SEALs had 48.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#63

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I understand the UDT had little combat exposure in Viet Nam, but they certainly had a big part in WW2.
Of the 175 NCDU and UDT men on Omaha beach, 31 where killed and 60 wounded. Their Teammates on Utah Beach faired far better because the beach was considerably less fortified. Four were killed and11 wounded, when an artillery shell landed among one of the teams working to clear the beach. Weeks before the invasion all available Underwater Demolition men were sent from Fort Pierce to England. The largest loss occurred at the landing on Omaha beach, Normandy. Within months of the War’s end, the UDT teams were dispersed. This ended a trying but evolutionary time in the history of Naval Special Warfare.

On 6 June 1944, in the face of great adversity, the NCDUs at Omaha Beach managed to blow eight complete gaps and two partial gaps in the German defenses. The NCDUs suffered 31 killed and 60 wounded, a casualty rate of 52%. Meanwhile, the NCDUs at Utah Beach met less intense enemy fire. They cleared 700 yards of beach in two hours, another 900 yards by the afternoon. Casualties at Utah Beach were significantly lighter with 6 killed and 11 wounded. During Operation OVERLORD, not a single demolitioneer was lost to improper handling of explosives.
http://navyseals.com/nsw/navy-seal-history/
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#64

Post by 92f-fan »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Obviously, I didn't see the evidence or hear the testimony, so I don't know if the incident with Ventura happened or not. It was enough to convince 8 of 10 jurors that the suit was well-founded. I find it almost laughable that Ventura would claim it was never about the money, then, in the same interview, claim that a loss in trial would have been financially devastating.

Of this I am sure; if Ventura's true goal was to restore his reputation, he failed miserably. He will be forever known as a guy who sued the widow of a war hero. That doesn't prompt people to hang your picture over their bed. It doesn't matter that the suit was filed before Chris died, Ventura didn't drop the suit when he was killed. I hope he finds obscurity a very lonely place.

Chas.
Well Said - Very well said.

Ive not researched this as much as I should, but then we are talking about a guy who became known and made a living acting like an athlete on TV. He made his name as a WWF wrestler A group known as testosterone fueled fakers, that wear spandex and spend an unusual amount of time in body contact with other male actors.
My guess on what happened is 2 former special forces guys traded words and it escalated. As has happened thousands of times in the past. Whether anyone was hit or not has been judged. What we know is that Jesse, has such issues that after such a verbal and possibly physical exchange, decided to file suit on the widow of a fellow soldier. Why cant he man up and let it go. Grow up.
Even if you believe that Kyle made it all up. Jesse is still acting like a child.

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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#65

Post by EEllis »

Charles L. Cotton wrote: If you can't see that being a hometown plaintiff gives one an advantage over an absentee defendant, then you simply don't understand the dynamics of jury trials. That's the entire justification for being able to get state claims into federal court under a diversity theory, but even that's a joke. The jury comes from the same pool of citizens and the judge almost always comes from a state court bench. So eliminating local bias by trying the case in federal court instead of state court is a farce.

I don't know where you are getting the 1/3 percentage for unjust enrichment, but regardless is unfounded. There simply is no way to get reliable evidence to prove that, but for the Ventura incident, the book would have generated only $X as opposed to $Y with the incident included. That's why Texas has a strong rule against speculative damages; we don't let juries award money damages on a hunch or junk science.

Chas.
I understand the theory but have seem nothing that makes me believe that JV is that popular even in Min. Nothing I've read seen or heard gives any real support for that idea. At the most JV would get 1.3 from the estate. JV's lawyers claim 6 mil income from the book but lets say it's closer to 3 or 4. Max JV might take 1/3 of what supposedly isn't even going to be kept or used by the Widow. That is why I said JV wasn't taking money from a poor widow. As to how they arrived at that figure I have zero idea. Have you seen any of the evidence or heard anything that I missed about what the lawyers used to try and convince the jury? From my understanding it's not even final till the judge rules on it and he may very well agree with you. My issue is the pronouncements without real info. Basically guesses and assumptions stated as facts. I'm sure they are educated guesses and reasonable assumptions but still.....
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#66

Post by The Annoyed Man »

Jim Beaux wrote:I understand the UDT had little combat exposure in Viet Nam, but they certainly had a big part in WW2.
Of the 175 NCDU and UDT men on Omaha beach, 31 where killed and 60 wounded. Their Teammates on Utah Beach faired far better because the beach was considerably less fortified. Four were killed and11 wounded, when an artillery shell landed among one of the teams working to clear the beach. Weeks before the invasion all available Underwater Demolition men were sent from Fort Pierce to England. The largest loss occurred at the landing on Omaha beach, Normandy. Within months of the War’s end, the UDT teams were dispersed. This ended a trying but evolutionary time in the history of Naval Special Warfare.

On 6 June 1944, in the face of great adversity, the NCDUs at Omaha Beach managed to blow eight complete gaps and two partial gaps in the German defenses. The NCDUs suffered 31 killed and 60 wounded, a casualty rate of 52%. Meanwhile, the NCDUs at Utah Beach met less intense enemy fire. They cleared 700 yards of beach in two hours, another 900 yards by the afternoon. Casualties at Utah Beach were significantly lighter with 6 killed and 11 wounded. During Operation OVERLORD, not a single demolitioneer was lost to improper handling of explosives.
http://navyseals.com/nsw/navy-seal-history/
From Marcus Luttrell's book "Service:
SEALs and Underwater Demolition Team Members Killed in Action, 1943– Korean War
Pirro, Carmon F. December 30, 1943 Anzio
Donnell, John Gerald January 30, 1944 Anzio
Olson, Richard Roderick February 4, 1944 Unknown
Tascillo, Matteo February 17, 1944 Marshall Islands
Abbott, George L. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Alexander, Henry Richard June 6, 1944 Normandy
Bussell, John Edward June 6, 1944 Normandy
Cook, John William June 6, 1944 Normandy
DeGregorio, Carmine June 6, 1944 Normandy
Demmer, Peter Mathew June 6, 1944 Normandy
Dillon, Thomas Justin June 6, 1944 Normandy
Dombek, Walter Joseph June 6, 1944 Normandy
Doran, William Robert June 6, 1944 Normandy
Drew, Elmer Malcolm June 6, 1944 Normandy
Duncan, Harold E. June 6, 1944 Normandy,
Fabich, Henry Samuel June 6, 1944 Normandy
Fleming, Andrew Jackson June 6, 1944 Normandy
Fuller, John Anthony Sr. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Gouinlock, George Linzy June 6, 1944 Normandy
Goulder, Preston Hardaway June 6, 1944 Normandy
Greenfield, Edward Joseph June 6, 1944 Normandy
Harang, Richard David June 6, 1944 Normandy
Herring, Clifford Palmer June 6, 1944 Normandy
Hickey, Arthur Burton June 6, 1944 Normandy
Holtman, Orvid J. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Hudson, Alton E. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Jacobson, John A. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Jarosz, Edward Anthony June 6, 1944 Normandy
McDermott, John Daniel June 6, 1944 Normandy
McGeary, Donald C. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Millis, Conrad Clarence June 6, 1944 Normandy
Mingledorff, Ozie Claud Jr. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Olive, Jesse D. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Perkins, Frank James June 6, 1944 Normandy
Pienack, Raymond Rudolph June 6, 1944 Normandy
Sullivan, Maurice Francis Jr. June 6, 1944 Normandy
Vetter, Alvin Edward June 6, 1944 Normandy
Weatherford, Milton Parker June 6, 1944 Normandy,
Weckman, Lawrence I. June 6, 1944 Normandy

Weidner, Albert Garhardt June 14, 1944 Saipan
Christensen, Robert V. June 16, 1944 Saipan
Blowers, Ralph A. July 15, 1944 Guam
Nixon, Thomas Dervus July 21, 1944 Guam
Black, Robert Armstrong August 14, 1944 Yap
MacMahon, John Churchill September 2, 1944 Yap
Roeder, Howard Livingston September 2, 1944 Yap
Audibert, Benoit Bernard October 18, 1944 Leyte
Kasman, Brennan W. October 18, 1944 Leyte
Lauderdale, Kenneth Broughton October 19, 1944 Leyte
Tilton, Edward October 19, 1944 Leyte
Blettel, David January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Castillo, Guadalupe January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Gamache, Wilfred Dolar January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Hopkins, Robert Lee January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Lewis, William Robert January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Malfeo, Marvin Antonio January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
McKnight, Thomas Rex January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Rodriquez, James Lawrence January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Rossart, Joseph William January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Scoggins, F. P. January 12, 1945 USS Belknap
Sugden, William Lloyd January 12, 1945 USS Belknap,

Anderson, Edward Wilson February 17, 1945 Iwo Jima
Sumpter, Frank Warren February 17, 1945 Iwo Jima
Yates, Lee Carlton February 17, 1945 Iwo Jima
Allen, Kermit February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Beason, Edwin Albert February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Blackwood, Buress Lee February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Blanot, Harry Thomas February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Davis, Paul Harrison February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Dolan, Patrick Raymond February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Flemming, Joseph Leo February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Gordon, Paul Eugene February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Hilke, Earl Everett February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Kalman, Louis Emery February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Maki, Eugene Elmer February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Mecale, John February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Rodman, James Emerson February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Runnels, Adrian February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Szych, Chester February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Watkins, Thomas Jackson February 18, 1945 USS Blessman
Willbanks, Herman Delmar February 18, 1945 USS Blessman

Lynch, Francis Joseph March 30, 1945 Okinawa
Bock, Leonard Joseph Jr. April 9, 1945 USS Hopping
Masden, Charles F. June 8, 1945 Balikpapan
Frey, Edward Ivan Jr. January, 19, 1951 Korea
Satterfield, Paul Veston January, 19, 1951 Korea

Luttrell, Marcus (2012-05-08). Service: A Navy SEAL at War . Little, Brown and Company. Kindle Edition.
The 17 UDT men killed on the USS Blessman were lost when a kamikaze plane hit the ship while the ship's UDT teams were supporting the landings at Luzon in the Leyte Gulf.

The 11 UDT men killed on the USS Belknap were lost when a Japanese "Betty" bomber dropped a rack of bombs on the ship as it was steaming away from Iwo Jima, where they had been supporting the Iwo Jima landings. With the 3 additional UDTs killed on the beaches at Iwo, that island claimed a total of 14 UDTs.

I guess I didn't remember the numbers correctly.......but that is still a HECK of a lot of UDTs KIA. JW is a worm. He was a worm before Chris Kyle ever joined the SEAL teams. The point I was trying to make before is that I don't think it serves anything to belittle UDT contributions, just because they have been replaced in the public eye by the SEAL teams.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#67

Post by Jim Beaux »

SNIP
The Annoyed Man wrote:
I guess I didn't remember the numbers correctly.......but that is still a HECK of a lot of UDTs KIA. JW is a worm. He was a worm before Chris Kyle ever joined the SEAL teams. The point I was trying to make before is that I don't think it serves anything to belittle UDT contributions, just because they have been replaced in the public eye by the SEAL teams.
:iagree:
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

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The Annoyed Man wrote:I guess I didn't remember the numbers correctly.......but that is still a HECK of a lot of UDTs KIA. JW is a worm. He was a worm before Chris Kyle ever joined the SEAL teams. The point I was trying to make before is that I don't think it serves anything to belittle UDT contributions, just because they have been replaced in the public eye by the SEAL teams.
I don't think it serves anything either. However, it's despicable that a man who was never a SEAL would claim to be a SEAL. He's trying to appropriate the honor of men who served in extremely dangerous conditions, 48 of whom never came home. His service was honorable, but he chose to steal the honor of others to make himself appear to be something he is not.

I'm proud to be a veteran, but I've always described myself as a Vietnam era veteran, because I never served in Vietnam. I did my duty, and I did it honorably, but I refuse to take away from the men who saw combat and, in some cases, died on the battlefield, to make myself appear to be more than I am. JV has done that all his life. In doing that he has not only dishonored the memories of those dead SEALs but also of his fellow UDT frogmen who served honorably.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#69

Post by EEllis »

baldeagle wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I guess I didn't remember the numbers correctly.......but that is still a HECK of a lot of UDTs KIA. JW is a worm. He was a worm before Chris Kyle ever joined the SEAL teams. The point I was trying to make before is that I don't think it serves anything to belittle UDT contributions, just because they have been replaced in the public eye by the SEAL teams.
I don't think it serves anything either. However, it's despicable that a man who was never a SEAL would claim to be a SEAL. He's trying to appropriate the honor of men who served in extremely dangerous conditions, 48 of whom never came home. His service was honorable, but he chose to steal the honor of others to make himself appear to be something he is not.

I'm proud to be a veteran, but I've always described myself as a Vietnam era veteran, because I never served in Vietnam. I did my duty, and I did it honorably, but I refuse to take away from the men who saw combat and, in some cases, died on the battlefield, to make myself appear to be more than I am. JV has done that all his life. In doing that he has not only dishonored the memories of those dead SEALs but also of his fellow UDT frogmen who served honorably.

This is probably my last post on this but I wanted to give a possible different viewpoint. Not everyone believes the way you do. You yourself quoted a Seal of a much later generation who believes it is OK for JV to call himself a Seal. You also don't seem to take into consideration the very slight differences between the two teams in that era. After graduating BUD/s you basically got to pick which team you went to. Seals or UDT. At that time there was no difference on graduation and any further training was on the team. If, as been suggested by a quote I posted earlier, they were so close in service that anytime JV wanted he could of transferred to a Seal team the next day it isn't unreasonable to think of the Teams as somewhat interchangeable. So you can easily make the argument that JV isn't trying to "get away" with anything. He believes what he says just like others from his era and current times also think it's OK. While the current buzz from the non Seal community is strongly against this until now the Seal community hasn't cared. While some may not of been 100% on it the number of others who saw no issue with it meant that no one said much. I don't think this is something outsiders need to determine which is what I see going on now. While this may be getting to the point where it is totally unexceptionable it wasn't during the vast majority of JV's public career. I'm not saying you should like the guy but lets not rewrite history either.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#70

Post by The Annoyed Man »

baldeagle wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:I guess I didn't remember the numbers correctly.......but that is still a HECK of a lot of UDTs KIA. JW is a worm. He was a worm before Chris Kyle ever joined the SEAL teams. The point I was trying to make before is that I don't think it serves anything to belittle UDT contributions, just because they have been replaced in the public eye by the SEAL teams.
I don't think it serves anything either. However, it's despicable that a man who was never a SEAL would claim to be a SEAL. He's trying to appropriate the honor of men who served in extremely dangerous conditions, 48 of whom never came home. His service was honorable, but he chose to steal the honor of others to make himself appear to be something he is not.

I'm proud to be a veteran, but I've always described myself as a Vietnam era veteran, because I never served in Vietnam. I did my duty, and I did it honorably, but I refuse to take away from the men who saw combat and, in some cases, died on the battlefield, to make myself appear to be more than I am. JV has done that all his life. In doing that he has not only dishonored the memories of those dead SEALs but also of his fellow UDT frogmen who served honorably.
And I agree. Stolen valor is always despicable. I was just responding to a previous post by someone which implied that UDTs were "mere" somethings, instead of people who do take on a dangerous job.....with less glamor, and fewer endorsements from Oakley.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#71

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If Ventura wanted to "restore his honor" or whatever he is claiming, he should start by trying to round up any old WWF videos with him in that boa and those tights. Compared to that, getting punched out by Klye seems like small potatoes.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#72

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karder wrote:If Ventura wanted to "restore his honor" or whatever he is claiming, he should start by trying to round up any old WWF videos with him in that boa and those tights. Compared to that, getting punched out by Klye seems like small potatoes.
Boa.... I think that was Hulk Hogan.... but ditch the tights, yeah!
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#73

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

EEllis wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote: If you can't see that being a hometown plaintiff gives one an advantage over an absentee defendant, then you simply don't understand the dynamics of jury trials. That's the entire justification for being able to get state claims into federal court under a diversity theory, but even that's a joke. The jury comes from the same pool of citizens and the judge almost always comes from a state court bench. So eliminating local bias by trying the case in federal court instead of state court is a farce.

I don't know where you are getting the 1/3 percentage for unjust enrichment, but regardless is unfounded. There simply is no way to get reliable evidence to prove that, but for the Ventura incident, the book would have generated only $X as opposed to $Y with the incident included. That's why Texas has a strong rule against speculative damages; we don't let juries award money damages on a hunch or junk science.

Chas.
I understand the theory but have seem nothing that makes me believe that JV is that popular even in Min. Nothing I've read seen or heard gives any real support for that idea. At the most JV would get 1.3 from the estate. JV's lawyers claim 6 mil income from the book but lets say it's closer to 3 or 4. Max JV might take 1/3 of what supposedly isn't even going to be kept or used by the Widow. That is why I said JV wasn't taking money from a poor widow. As to how they arrived at that figure I have zero idea. Have you seen any of the evidence or heard anything that I missed about what the lawyers used to try and convince the jury? From my understanding it's not even final till the judge rules on it and he may very well agree with you. My issue is the pronouncements without real info. Basically guesses and assumptions stated as facts. I'm sure they are educated guesses and reasonable assumptions but still.....
Local bias is rarely quantifiable which is why federal law allows state court claims to be filed in (or removed to) federal court under a "Diversity" claim. (That is diversity of state residency.) An entire body of federal law is based upon the reality of local bias. I see it on an intrastate level every time I try a case in a small county and one party or the other is not a resident of that county.

Apparently I misunderstood your numbers argument. You were talking about the amount of money going to the widow v. the money going to Ventura. I thought you were trying to counter my argument that it's impossible to provide accurate evidence about how much more the book allegedly sold because of the inclusion of the Ventura argument, as opposed to what sales would have been without including that incident. Your point is the widow isn't "poor;" my point is that the jury verdict on unjust enrichment is utterly without factual basis. (BTW, I never referred to Chris' widow being poor, only that Ventura went after the widow of a war hero and that's PR suicide.)

Chas.

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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#74

Post by EEllis »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:




Local bias is rarely quantifiable which is why federal law allows state court claims to be filed in (or removed to) federal court under a "Diversity" claim. (That is diversity of state residency.) An entire body of federal law is based upon the reality of local bias. I see it on an intrastate level every time I try a case in a small county and one party or the other is not a resident of that county.

Apparently I misunderstood your numbers argument. You were talking about the amount of money going to the widow v. the money going to Ventura. I thought you were trying to counter my argument that it's impossible to provide accurate evidence about how much more the book allegedly sold because of the inclusion of the Ventura argument, as opposed to what sales would have been without including that incident. Your point is the widow isn't "poor;" my point is that the jury verdict on unjust enrichment is utterly without factual basis. (BTW, I never referred to Chris' widow being poor, only that Ventura went after the widow of a war hero and that's PR suicide.)

Chas.
All I would have to say is that we don't know what the argument is so it's a bit much for me to say that the plaintiffs argumentis without merit or without factual basis.
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Re: Jesse Ventura wins $1.84M in defamation suit v. Chris Ky

#75

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

EEllis wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:




Local bias is rarely quantifiable which is why federal law allows state court claims to be filed in (or removed to) federal court under a "Diversity" claim. (That is diversity of state residency.) An entire body of federal law is based upon the reality of local bias. I see it on an intrastate level every time I try a case in a small county and one party or the other is not a resident of that county.

Apparently I misunderstood your numbers argument. You were talking about the amount of money going to the widow v. the money going to Ventura. I thought you were trying to counter my argument that it's impossible to provide accurate evidence about how much more the book allegedly sold because of the inclusion of the Ventura argument, as opposed to what sales would have been without including that incident. Your point is the widow isn't "poor;" my point is that the jury verdict on unjust enrichment is utterly without factual basis. (BTW, I never referred to Chris' widow being poor, only that Ventura went after the widow of a war hero and that's PR suicide.)

Chas.
All I would have to say is that we don't know what the argument is so it's a bit much for me to say that the plaintiffs argumentis without merit or without factual basis.
Yes, I/we do conclusively know that the unjust enrichment award is without a factual basis. That type of claim cannot be quantified in terms of sales of a book that covers many topics. Valid unjust enrichment claims are typically based upon sales of a product or service when the seller/provider violated patents, wrongfully obtained trade secret information, etc. The sales are easily quantifiable.

It is impossible, not difficult, not problematic, it's impossible to accurately estimate how many books would have been sold if the Ventura incident had not been included. It's equally impossible to even say that book sales would have been lower at all; they could just as easily been higher without the Ventura incident. Therefore, the jury award for unjust enrichment was purely speculative and speculative damages don't fly in Texas.

I don't need to hear or read what garbage plaintiff's counsel sold to the court or jury to know speculative damages when I see them being awarded. In fact, that's covered in law school in the required "Remedies" course, so even a second year law student knows garbage when they see it. The Texas Supreme Court has addressed "junk science" in appellate cases, so this isn't new or unexplored territory.

Chas.
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