Cops arrest jogging woman....

[Oldgringo]

If she really did refuse to identify and they did not just cart a screaming terrified girl off before she could calm down enough to tell them her name....well that was stupid on her. But it looked like she was terrified, not just petulant, and her being terrified is directly related to how she was detained. Perhaps (we will never know) she might have been more cooperative if she did not feel like she had just been attacked.


What I object to most is how they handled the initial contact. If a person cannot hear you and you grab them from behind, you are going to scare the living crap out of them and escalate the sitatuion. The person rightly thinks they are under attack and their reflexes and fight or flight kicks in, setting everyone up for a bad situation. Maybe the LEO's here are ok with grabbing people, but I am sure not being ok being grabbed. There are many reasons a person would not hear a LEO, ambient noise, hearing disability, and yes being silly and having your earbuds turned up too far. I have a bad ear from no fault of my own. You come up on that side of me and talk with any ambient noise and I might not hear you at all. They need a different way other than grabbing a person. Wave a hand in front of their face. Tap them on the shoulder. Tap them on the arm.

...and/or shoot them in the leg?

[MechAg94]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

However, I have to wonder if the cops were upset at having to run and grabbed hold and didn't let go once they caught her. They might have grabbed her and proceeded to exert physical "control", or tried to pin her arm where she can't turn around and see who it is. In that case, I can easily see her reacting badly if not in a full on panic and not calming down quickly at all. I am sure many people would react that way. Most anyone's first reaction (assuming they are suprised) would be the break away and turn around. If they couldn't do either, they will try harder and are not likely to even hear what the other person is saying at least at first.


I don't know how it went down. Just trying to imagine possible scenarios. I did have my AM radio on this morning when I was walking, but I only used one ear bud to at least maintain some awareness. Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

[WildBill]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

Sometimes they help me cope with my long commute.

I can see the women being upset. This was probably her first contact with an LEO in this type of situation. I can see her being very upset, but she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence". Maybe this arrest will give her a little more perspective. That said, I hope that they drop all of the charges and just keep the citation for jaywalking. I don't think that she is a menace to society. I can also hope that this incident won't taint her long term feels toward law enforcement.

[nightmare]

It could be worse. It's not like they shot her dog or something.

[chasfm11]

But she did do something wrong. Maybe the arrest was harsh, but maybe she'll also re-think the ear buds considering she was snatched from behind by two huge guys. Maybe she's lucky they were cops. There's plenty of other guys that could grab her in Austin - and she wouldn't get a chance to scream.

Nah, she won't. Many young women think they're invulnerable. She'll go right back to the ear buds and just hate cops.

I don't think she had any respect in the first place otherwise she wouldn't have gone off like she did. They really should release audio of her crying rant so her parents can be proud

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of fairly sheltered young women who react very emotionally to something that jerks them pretty far outside their comfort zone. Respect for LE or the lack of it may not have played much part initially in her reaction. I'm pretty sure that she did not gain any respect for the police out of this incident and I doubt that many of the people her age that she tells about it (and I suspect that it will be a fairly large number) will gain respect either.

The officers involved "won" the battle. Personally, I see it as a pretty hollow victory. Perhaps the caption on the video should read "we really showed her."

[nightmare69]

This is what I got from it.

Girl jaywalking wearing ear buds and cannot hear LEOs calling out to her.

LEOs grab girl and she gets hysterical and they arrest her for what? Failure to ID?

I think the LEOs were just going to tell her to not jaywalk, girl became irate causing a scene (failing the attitude test) and she refused to ID (arrestable crime) when the LEOs were just going to write her a citation for jaywalking.

Play stupid games.....

Am I close?

[mamabearCali]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

Sometimes they help me cope with my long commute.

I can see the women being upset. This was probably her first contact with an LEO in this type of situation. I can see her being very upset, but she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence". Maybe this arrest will give her a little more perspective. That said, I hope that they drop all of the charges and just keep the citation for jaywalking. I don't think that she is a menace to society. I can also hope that this incident won't taint her long term feels toward law enforcement.

You bet your butt she is tainted probably for life. Women do not forget. Women do not trust once that trust has been lost. You attack us, hurt us, treat us like trash, we do not forget and will not give you another chance to do so. So the cops won the skirmish, but lost the respect and trust of a citizen probably for life. Good job boys in blue.

The perspective you ask her to have is not possible given how things happened. Boys can punch each other one day and be best buds the next, women do not do that.

[Oldgringo]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

Sometimes they help me cope with my long commute.

I can see the women being upset. This was probably her first contact with an LEO in this type of situation. I can see her being very upset, but she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence". Maybe this arrest will give her a little more perspective. That said, I hope that they drop all of the charges and just keep the citation for jaywalking. I don't think that she is a menace to society. I can also hope that this incident won't taint her long term feels toward law enforcement.

You bet your butt she is tainted probably for life. Women do not forget. Women do not trust once that trust has been lost. You attack us, hurt us, treat us like trash, we do not forget and will not give you another chance to do so. So the cops won the skirmish, but lost the respect and trust of a citizen probably for life. Good job boys in blue.

The perspective you ask her to have is not possible given how things happened. Boys can punch each other one day and be best buds the next, women do not do that.

She should, and will, sue their socks off. AFAIK, there is no law against being a dolt; however, there are several laws against sexual harassment and civil rights encroachment. She will get new running shoes.

[SewTexas]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

Sometimes they help me cope with my long commute.

I can see the women being upset. This was probably her first contact with an LEO in this type of situation. I can see her being very upset, but she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence". Maybe this arrest will give her a little more perspective. That said, I hope that they drop all of the charges and just keep the citation for jaywalking. I don't think that she is a menace to society. I can also hope that this incident won't taint her long term feels toward law enforcement.

she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence" ???? what the heck is that????

let me put it this way....is your wife one of the women who carry? Cali and I carry, TAM's wife carries, if one of us is grabbed from behind, that cop is going to be facing a gun, all because he didn't announce himself in such a way as to be noticed by someone who couldn't hear him, weather that person has headphones (as is more, and more common now, so train on it) or that person is deaf or has some hearing loss. I thought police officers were trained in de-escalation? or at least not escalation. college kids are a ball full of hormones, it's all about escalation, he knew that when he set up shop there, he knew going in what his "target audience" would be, so to speak. he should have been more prepared.

[WildBill]

Emotional intelligence (EI) is the ability to identify, assess, and control the emotions of oneself, of others, and of groups.

[Cedar Park Dad]

At first, I visualized an officer catching up to her and grabbing/tapping her shoulder to get her attention and letting her turn around and see that cops are trying to stop her. In that case, someone might jump or freak out for a couple seconds, but should calm down once they realize they are looking at a cop, not some mugger.

Hard to miss Walton and Johnson in the morning.

Sometimes they help me cope with my long commute.

I can see the women being upset. This was probably her first contact with an LEO in this type of situation. I can see her being very upset, but she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence". Maybe this arrest will give her a little more perspective. That said, I hope that they drop all of the charges and just keep the citation for jaywalking. I don't think that she is a menace to society. I can also hope that this incident won't taint her long term feels toward law enforcement.

she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence" ???? what the heck is that????

let me put it this way....is your wife one of the women who carry? Cali and I carry, TAM's wife carries, if one of us is grabbed from behind, that cop is going to be facing a gun, all because he didn't announce himself in such a way as to be noticed by someone who couldn't hear him, weather that person has headphones (as is more, and more common now, so train on it) or that person is deaf or has some hearing loss. I thought police officers were trained in de-escalation? or at least not escalation. college kids are a ball full of hormones, it's all about escalation, he knew that when he set up shop there, he knew going in what his "target audience" would be, so to speak. he should have been more prepared.

Exactly. In our situation we had a stalker for several years and have CHLs at recommendation of our attorney and the police themselves. She's been taught how to hurt someone who grabs her, breakaway and be in shooting mode when she breaks.
This could have ended very badly.

[WildBill]

she needs to work on her "emotional intelligence" ???? what the heck is that????

let me put it this way....is your wife one of the women who carry? Cali and I carry, TAM's wife carries, if one of us is grabbed from behind, that cop is going to be facing a gun, all because he didn't announce himself in such a way as to be noticed by someone who couldn't hear him, weather that person has headphones (as is more, and more common now, so train on it) or that person is deaf or has some hearing loss. I thought police officers were trained in de-escalation? or at least not escalation. college kids are a ball full of hormones, it's all about escalation, he knew that when he set up shop there, he knew going in what his "target audience" would be, so to speak. he should have been more prepared.

Whether or not my wife carries is not relavent. This woman did not turn around and try to break away or defend herself or pull a gun. She sat down on the sidewalk and cried. Then, after she knew it was the police who grabbed her, she refused to identify herself and starting yelling profanities. Then she starting yelling and screaming as she was being taken to the police car. That is what I meant by having to work on her emotional intelligence.

[Keith B]

Exactly. In our situation we had a stalker for several years and have CHLs at recommendation of our attorney and the police themselves. She's been taught how to hurt someone who grabs her, breakaway and be in shooting mode when she breaks.
This could have ended very badly.

But this goes back to situational awareness. If you run around with headphones on while carrying and someone makes an stupid but innocent move and grabs your arm or some other method of stopping you, you need to be sure of what you are drawing your gun on.

I will say it again, initial reaction of being startled and pulling away to assess the situation is totally appropriate. Her post reaction, her whining and crying fit and refusing to ID after knowing it was a police officer was not.

EDIT: WildBill bascially beat me to the same answer.

[texanjoker]

But she did do something wrong. Maybe the arrest was harsh, but maybe she'll also re-think the ear buds considering she was snatched from behind by two huge guys. Maybe she's lucky they were cops. There's plenty of other guys that could grab her in Austin - and she wouldn't get a chance to scream.

Nah, she won't. Many young women think they're invulnerable. She'll go right back to the ear buds and just hate cops.

I don't think she had any respect in the first place otherwise she wouldn't have gone off like she did. They really should release audio of her crying rant so her parents can be proud

I'm not so sure. There are a lot of fairly sheltered young women who react very emotionally to something that jerks them pretty far outside their comfort zone. Respect for LE or the lack of it may not have played much part initially in her reaction. I'm pretty sure that she did not gain any respect for the police out of this incident and I doubt that many of the people her age that she tells about it (and I suspect that it will be a fairly large number) will gain respect either.

The officers involved "won" the battle. Personally, I see it as a pretty hollow victory. Perhaps the caption on the video should read "we really showed her."

Videos of leo's are released all the time so why not of a person cussing out the cops to show both sides of the incident? She won't be the little angel everybody thinks she is. If she were my daughter I would be disappointed in her behavior. As far as the incident itself, there is NO victory nor was there a battle. The officers did not want this and making this type of arrest is nothing to brag about. They wanted to write a simple ticket and she acted out and refused to ID. No more no less. They correctly did not charge her for resisting.

I can say having worked since the 80's times are changing. This type of behavior is more common in our younger generation and will only get worse before it gets better. Personally, I am not for dismissing the ticket, but I am for deferred adjudication. That way after she behaves it goes away. If not it stays. That is up to her.

[mamabearCali]

Exactly. In our situation we had a stalker for several years and have CHLs at recommendation of our attorney and the police themselves. She's been taught how to hurt someone who grabs her, breakaway and be in shooting mode when she breaks.
This could have ended very badly.

But this goes back to situational awareness. If you run around with headphones on while carrying and someone makes an stupid but innocent move and grabs your arm or some other method of stopping you, you need to be sure of what you are drawing your gun on.

I will say it again, initial reaction of being startled and pulling away to assess the situation is totally appropriate. Her post reaction, her whining and crying fit and refusing to ID after knowing it was a police officer was not.

EDIT: WildBill bascially beat me to the same answer.

Have you ever been around a girl that just experienced fight or flight? Let me tell you once in college my car broke down. I was in a bad part of town and was chased by three men throwing things at me. I ran like hades and got to a safe place. Once I had got away all I could do was sob. I could barely get out my cell phone to call for help. Her reaction was entirely normal. The swearing was superfluous but kids today swear.