I hate the Un-affordable Obama Care

[mamabearCali]

Our insurance went up $50 a month......not much till you consider that is a 50% increase. Our deductible was already rather high and it has gone up too (from 3.5 k per person to almost 4k). We pay for just about all out ordinary care out of our HSA. Even a birth would be mostly on us. We have insurance as a hedge against disaster. It is ther for if we or any of our children get seriously injured or have a serious medical problem.

We got pamphlets about all the great stuff we get for "free" now. Flu shots.....didn't want them in the first place, but if I did it would have been like $10 a shot. Birth control......did not want it...if I did it was $30 a month for the pill. There was more, but basically additional that was "free" was stuff I did not want in the first place and even if I did it was not worth the cost of the increase.

[Robert*PPS]

You can't compare a plan that was employer subsidized and a plan that you're buying on the open market with no employer backing and blame the increase completely on Obamacare

This isn't entirely true. The comparison,like any other financial comparison, is the bottom line variance. If your Employer drops group coverage because of Obamacare, and you are forced into the individual market, the additional out-of-pocket expenses are directly related to the law. Although this particular scenario hasn't been widespread (yet), it is happening. The most recent manifestation is the reduction of work hours to cause employees to fall outside of the mandate.

Another thing to keep in mind about COBRA; it is not subsidized by the employer. In fact, premiums for COBRA run 102% of the cost of the plan for similar individuals. So the fact that his out-of-pocket expenses are higher with Medicare and an individual policy versus COBRA and an individual policy says quite a bit about the quantity of the variance. Now, you take a look at what has changed. The most notable change, of course, is the mandates of Obamacare coming into effect.

The simple fact is that Obamacare will cost most people more. It has to. You cannot simply dictate to a private company that they now have to pay for something (or in this case, a bunch of somethings)and expect the overall price of their services to remain unchanged.

[cb1000rider]

Beiruty,
Thanks for sharing.. And again, I'm sorry about that situation. That sort of healthcare cost is a hardship to put it lightly.
And thanks for including that the $1100 was total of the premium. I see a lot of criticism of the system that compares out of pocket premiums (with an employer helping) to open market premiums, which isn't a valid comparison. Yours was completely valid...


I need to get around to sharing mine.. And comparing what I find on healthcare.gov.. I just haven't gotten to it yet.

[SewTexas]

I just learned today that my daughter will probably drop from our insurance this summer?! He keeps saying they can stay on until 26. Well, she's 20, working part-time, helps out with her grandmother....college didn't work out. Apparently they can stay on our insurance after 21 only if they are in college? We're going to double check with our HR rep next week so we have some time to do some research. A friends son got dropped this week, she's trying to figure out what to do.

[cb1000rider]

That sounds like an employer policy or employer healthcare provider policy to me, I remember policies like it. Hopefully it just needs to be updated.
Here's what the new law says:

The Affordable Care Act requires plans and issuers that offer dependent coverage to make the coverage available until a child reaches the age of 26. Both married and unmarried children qualify for this coverage. This rule applies to all plans in the individual market and to new employer plans. It also applies to existing employer plans unless the adult child has another offer of employer-based coverage (such as through his or her job). Beginning in 2014, children up to age 26 can stay on their parent's employer plan even if they have another offer of coverage through an employer.

[SewTexas]

That sounds like an employer policy or employer healthcare provider policy to me, I remember policies like it. Hopefully it just needs to be updated.
Here's what the new law says:

The Affordable Care Act requires plans and issuers that offer dependent coverage to make the coverage available until a child reaches the age of 26. Both married and unmarried children qualify for this coverage. This rule applies to all plans in the individual market and to new employer plans. It also applies to existing employer plans unless the adult child has another offer of employer-based coverage (such as through his or her job). Beginning in 2014, children up to age 26 can stay on their parent's employer plan even if they have another offer of coverage through an employer.

Thanks CB, that's what I thought.
hmm, ok, I wonder what happened with my friend's policy then? very interesting. I think we'll do a double check though, just to be sure. I feel better about it now.

[Dragonfighter]

My eldest daughter and son-in-law negotiate and pay cash for their medical needs. My son-in-law has crunched the numbers and found it much cheaper than what he would have to pay for their tribe in premiums.

Sorry to hear of your shocking situation Beiruty. I do wonder how many people are going to say "screw it, I can't afford this--let 'em come after me with penalties."

[Dragonfighter]

Sorry to hear of your shocking situation Beiruty. I do wonder how many people are going to say "screw it, I can't afford this--let 'em come after me with penalties."

My eldest daughter and son-in-law negotiate and pay cash for their medical needs. My son-in-law has crunched the numbers and found it much cheaper than what he would have to pay for their tribe in premiums.

[sjfcontrol]

Sooooo... I don't get it. Is it ok now to discuss obamacare? I thought that was what closed this forum for a couple of weeks.

[bizarrenormality]

Sticker shock of the first grade!

Be warned, Obama care is unaffordable.
What I was paying in 2013 Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO, $2,000 family deductible and max out of pocket premiums are $13,200/yr Max out of pocket per year $15,200

Obama care starts below:
======================
Humana PPO Platinum for my wife and 2 kids alone is $10,108 for premiums and $3,000 out of pocket. Total for 3 healthy members $13,108.

My medicare premiums and supplemental plan is $580 per month or $7,070/yr.

New out of pocket for 2014 is $20,178/yr or $5,000 more or 30% increase!

Yeah the health care cost for family of 4 is $20,178 per yr. NO federal assistance if you make $94,000/yr or more.

There are going to be losers in every socialist wealth distribution scheme. Sorry it's you this time.

The founding fathers knew the only real fix for that but I think that uncomfortable topic is still not allowed even if they loosened the restrictions on non-gun political threads.

[jmra]

Sticker shock of the first grade!

Be warned, Obama care is unaffordable.
What I was paying in 2013 Blue Cross Blue Shield PPO, $2,000 family deductible and max out of pocket premiums are $13,200/yr Max out of pocket per year $15,200

Obama care starts below:
======================
Humana PPO Platinum for my wife and 2 kids alone is $10,108 for premiums and $3,000 out of pocket. Total for 3 healthy members $13,108.

My medicare premiums and supplemental plan is $580 per month or $7,070/yr.

New out of pocket for 2014 is $20,178/yr or $5,000 more or 30% increase!

Yeah the health care cost for family of 4 is $20,178 per yr. NO federal assistance if you make $94,000/yr or more.

There are going to be losers in every socialist wealth distribution scheme. Sorry it's you this time.

The founding fathers knew the only real fix for that but I think that uncomfortable topic is still not allowed even if they loosened the restrictions on non-gun political threads.

Ultimately everyone loses under this plan.

[mamabearCali]

Sooooo... I don't get it. Is it ok now to discuss obamacare? I thought that was what closed this forum for a couple of weeks.

I am not sure, you can ask mr. Cotton. But I think if we keep it to our personal experiences of the health care and not involve the broader politics and keep it friendly it may fall into the new paradigm.

[baldeagle]

You can't compare a plan that was employer subsidized and a plan that you're buying on the open market with no employer backing and blame the increase completely on Obamacare.

Why not? Obamacare is the law that is written deliberately to incent companies to drop their coverage and force their employees to seek coverage in the exchanges. What other explanation do you have for this sudden change in behavior by corporations?

Eventually even the rubes will realize they've been robbed, but by then it won't matter.

Some of the rubes like me are trying to figure it out based on data, not on the political theater. Lots of health care provides seem to be hiding under the cover of "Obamacare" to make changes that are not good for consumers. I don't believe them at face value.

The health care providers are making the changes based upon the rules written by HHS. None of this is being done in a vacuum. Do you have some other explanation for these changes?

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm sorry that happened to you.
I want to be concerned along side you.. But I believe that some companies are taking cover under Obamacare and taking advantage. I think other people (not necessarily you) are not fully making an apples to apples comparison. Help me understand:

1) What were your "before" premiums? You mentioned "pocket premiums are $13,200/yr". I assume that is for all 3 of you at $1100/mo.
2) New premiums are $842.33 for 2 people, but you switch to medicare and supplemental insurance (new policy) at $580/mo for a total of $1422.33/mo

So moving from 3 people from a Blue Cross Blue shield PPO to a Humania Platnium PPO (2 people) and adding medicare plus a supplemental policy results in a cost increase of 29%.

Are the coverages on the PPO plans the same, worse, or better?


That data helps me decide...

What were prior year to year increases on the Blue Cross PPO? I know that we dropped them due to increases over the last 3 years.

My wife's Humana policy, before the Obama/DemocratCare rollout was $245/month. First, she got a letter saying it was being canceled on 12/31/13. A couple of weeks later, she got a 2nd letter saying she could keep her policy through 12/31/14, but it would go up to $596.00/month. I had a supplemental insurance policy and a $50,000 life insurance policy which cost me $99/month. It is canceled as of 12/31/13, so I lose both my supplemental insurance AND my life insurance.

We talked to Blue Cross/Blue Shield about a multistate PPO plan for the both of us. (We didn't even consider the HMO because there are almost no providers in Tarrant County, where we live.) The cost is $1,278.00/month for a policy with similar coverage to my wife's previous Humana plan, but with a larger deductible. We're on a more or less fixed income. Because of our adjusted gross income for 2012 (2013 isn't calculated yet) we qualify for a subsidy which will reduce the payment from $1,278.00 to $536/month. So those are the numbers.

Here's the philosophical objection:

• Before Obama/DemocratCare, my wife and I were not a burden to the U.S. taxpayer. We paid our way, and we had contingency plans in place should the catastrophic happen. Obama/DemocratCare forces us onto a federal dependency. That robs me of my dignity if nothing else, or it forces me to pay a fine for refusing to kowtow to the commies, and that is just plain inarguably unjust and immoral. It forces us, who are both very pro-life, to support abortion, which is an abomination in God's eyes. It forces this aging empty-nester couple to pay for the pediatric care of other people.

The personal financial objections:

• Instead of an annual outlay of $4,128 plus office visits (I always got a good price because of being a "cash customer") plus deductibles, we are now going to pay $6,432 plus copays + a larger deductible. . . . .and this is AFTER the subsidy. In exactly what world is that a just thing to do to my wife and I, who are no longer spring chickens and whose purchasing power is rapidly succumbing to the ravages of a democrat economy? We're actually considering selling our 100% paid for home and moving to another county with lower property taxes, just so that Obama/DemocratCare doesn't wipe us out entirely.

The macro economic objections:

• The entire boondoggle depends absolutely critically on young people signing up. They're not doing that. The reason it depends on them signing up is that the system depends on their being part of the insurance pool to amortize the cost of insuring people like me and my wife. The reason they're not signing up is that the law mandates that the premiums for people like me cannot be more than 3 times the premiums of young people. But since they cannot possibly afford to insure people my age for three times what a young person used to pay, they had to raise the rates for young people to 1/3 of the rate of the (increased) senior rates under the new plan. So not only do seniors pay a significant amount more, but the young are paying a staggering amount more. So they are not signing up.
  
  The problem with that, of course, is that since they are not signing up, the whole house of cards is going to come tumbling down within 12 months. Come fiscal 2015, there won't be enough young participants to keep the thing going for seniors, and the insurance companies will no longer have the financial incentive to participate in the exchanges. The law doesn't require their participation, if they just want to sell "cadillac policies" (to use the democrat misnomer) to the rich, who don't need to worry about the cost of Obama/DemocratCare to their personal family insurance plans. When that system collapses, we'll have no insurance at all because the subsidy will end and Blue Cross/Blue Shield will terminate our policy which we'll no longer be able to afford at $1,278/month (for 2 people) on a reduced income.

In 24 months, either Obama/DemocratCare will be repealed, or republicans will cave in and allow passage of single payer. . . . which was the democrats' plan all along. Welcome to the "social democracy" of western europe. We're hosed. Honestly, if everyone of those peckerwoods who had anything to do with conceiving, writing, passing, signing into law, and implementing Obama/DemocratCare dropped dead tomorrow, I wouldn't give it a moment's thought. I would actually feel a burden lifted off my shoulders.

[chasfm11]

Like TAM, Obamacare forced the termination of my Medicare supplement paid for by my former employer. Just yesterday, I completed registration for the best alternative that I can get for 2014. While the premium costs are not astronomically high, the deductibles and co-pays are - $6,000 for me alone. So I have to pay $6,000 on "allowable" expenses before almost any part of my supplement kicks in. My wife, still covered under my former employer's group plan through May, 2014 will have a premium of nearly $1,000 a month and with very high deductibles and co-pays.

To be fair, medical costs were an escalating problem before Obamacare was passed. But what it did was to throw a large amount of gasoline on top of the fire that was already burning through money for healthcare. It imposed several layers of political burden on an already volatile situation. In the name of fairness, it is definitely fixed it so we will all be in the same situation - with little or no access to medical insurance coverage.

As we sit today, we've used 23.4% of our total expenses on medical care and insurance in 2013. If my calculations are correct and without any unforeseen medical situations occurring, that is going to jump to 28% thru May 2014 and who knows where from there. The worst part is that I have a Medicare part B plan which I pay over $100 per month for that has paid almost nothing in this year against the expenses that I have had. That will double next year with my wife on Medicare, too. It is already difficult to find providers who will accept Medicare and my supplement requires me to run all expenses through Medicare or they won't consider them. If it were not for a catastrophic situation, I would be far better off abandoning everything and simply paying my doctors in cash. I would have actually saved money this year by doing that.