Open Carry Walks

[Charles L. Cotton]

I would suggest he be careful where he carrys that rifle. Both Wal-Mart and Double Daves Pizza sell beer.

But Walmart is not for consumption on the premesis.

It doesn't matter. http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/sign_requirements.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chas.

[RoyGBiv]

Like blue sign......"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony ....."

If you're saying it's a felony to carry a Kershaw Blur at Double Daves Pizza because they serve beer, can you please show me what law says that. On the other hand, if you're saying it's a felony to carry an AR15 but not a Kershaw Blur, I'd like to see that law too. (Not arguing the sign says that but without a law the sign has no force of law.)

http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/laws/sign_requirements.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Interesting... There seems to be an interchangeable use of "handgun" and "weapon" on that referenced page.

First, this seems to be clear that all "weapons" are prohibited unless pursuant to CHL.
However, IIRC, the concealed handgun law does not speak to knives (except illegal knives), so, are we to infer that knives are prohibited or that knives are not addressed by this ABC rule.?

Weapons Warning Sign: It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law.

Then, the later paragraph seems to say the signs only pertain to handguns, but then throws "weapons" in at the end. Clear as mud.

All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs. One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun: establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premises consumption or, if licensed for sale for on-premises consumption, establishments whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts. It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

I have always read this as weapon = firearm, in the context of this ABC rule.
Is this not correct?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Openly carrying a long gun into places where guns are not normally seen will not accomplish the stated goal of "educating" the public about guns. Prior to the Republican Party Convention in Houston in 2000, there were no restrictions on carrying long guns and these guns were fully protected under Texas preemption laws. During the convention, the New Black Panthers "marched" on the Brown Convention Center with their rifles and shotguns. Since this was not against the law, nothing could be done to prevent these obvious scare tactics. The next Texas legislative session saw a change in preemption laws that allows cities to regulate/prevent carrying of long guns at political rallies, parades, or official political meetings by everyone other than a CHL. Carrying a rifle into locations like stores, movies, etc. doesn't educate people, it scares them and scared people push for changes in the law that are detrimental to gun owners.

The people I've seen interviewed on TV have stated they are openly carrying rifles because they can't openly carry handguns. This isn't even an attempt to "educate the public," it's a blatant "you won't let me carry a handgun, so I'll carry something you'll find even scarier" attitude. The goal isn't education, it's intimidation -- let me do what I want or I'll do something you hate even more. That is a tactic destined to fail.

I have repeatedly stated that passage of open-carry will require a campaign to allay public fears of seeing handguns carried openly. Part of that process involves convincing people that those who want to open-carry are not doing so to draw attention to themselves and to appear like a modern day gunslinger. This goal is accomplished by articles, interviews, videos, meetings, etc. during which open-carry proponents are consummate statesmen. The goal of education is to change people's opinions. You do this by providing verifiable facts, not by intimidation and fear.

Chas.

[Does not prevent a city's authority to:] (6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

• (A) public park;
  
  (B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
  
  (C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

[Keith B]

Interesting... There seems to be an interchangeable use of "handgun" and "weapon" on that referenced page.

First, this seems to be clear that all "weapons" are prohibited unless pursuant to CHL.
However, IIRC, the concealed handgun law does not speak to knives (except illegal knives), so, are we to infer that knives are prohibited or that knives are not addressed by this ABC rule.?

Weapons Warning Sign: It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law.

Then, the later paragraph seems to say the signs only pertain to handguns, but then throws "weapons" in at the end. Clear as mud.

All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs. One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun: establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premises consumption or, if licensed for sale for on-premises consumption, establishments whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts. It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

I have always read this as weapon = firearm, in the context of this ABC rule.
Is this not correct?

The 51% sign clearly states '...licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon..'. The blue sign says '...unlicensed possesion...' So, the only licensed possession is CHL, and it clearly delineates the difference and applies to ALL weapons as defined in 46.02.

[nightmare69]

I have always been torn on the subject of open carry. On one hand I support people exercising their constitutional rights as I am a strong supporter of the 2A. On the other I see where this causes panic from the public seeing some guy walking down main street with a AR-15 slung across his back.

[RoyGBiv]

Interesting... There seems to be an interchangeable use of "handgun" and "weapon" on that referenced page.

First, this seems to be clear that all "weapons" are prohibited unless pursuant to CHL.
However, IIRC, the concealed handgun law does not speak to knives (except illegal knives), so, are we to infer that knives are prohibited or that knives are not addressed by this ABC rule.?

Weapons Warning Sign: It is unlawful to carry a weapon on the premises unless the person is licensed to carry the weapon under the concealed handgun law.

Then, the later paragraph seems to say the signs only pertain to handguns, but then throws "weapons" in at the end. Clear as mud.

All alcoholic beverages retailers must post one of two firearms signs. One sign is intended for use on the types of premises where a holder of a concealed hand gun license may lawfully possess a concealed hand gun: establishments licensed to sell alcoholic beverages for off-premises consumption or, if licensed for sale for on-premises consumption, establishments whose alcohol sales are 50% or less of total gross receipts. It warns that unlicensed possession of a concealed weapon is a felony.

I have always read this as weapon = firearm, in the context of this ABC rule.
Is this not correct?

The 51% sign clearly states '...licensed or unlicensed possession of a weapon..'. The blue sign says '...unlicensed possesion...' So, the only licensed possession is CHL, and it clearly delineates the difference and applies to ALL weapons as defined in 46.02.

I understand the red sign prohibits licensed and unlicensed possession of a weapon, but I'm a little surprised that the definition of weapon includes a not-illegal knife (folding pocket knife, for example).... AFAIK, 46.02 (UCW) applies only to "illegal knife", not just any "knife"...

In 46.035, the code specifically refers to a handgun in a >51% location and says nothing about any kind of knife, illegal or otherwise.

I don't find any prohibition against carrying a non-illegal knife into a >51% location. What am I missing?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[fickman]

Part of that process involves convincing people that those who want to open-carry are not doing so to draw attention to themselves and to appear like a modern day gunslinger.

I'll admit, if open carry ever passes, I plan to have one western rig as a rare to occasional option. Not necessarily to draw attention. . . but simply because I think they're sharp looking, comfortable, and I love the historical association. I doubt I'm alone. . . especially when you consider the diversity of the state from big cities to working ranches to small towns.

I think there will be small percentage of the population that pulls out the "BBQ guns" if open carry passes. The reasoning will be that - if it's visible - why not have it match / coordinate with your clothes, style, or plans. I can already hear it, "If I'm going to have one, it might as well look nice." We'll go from all silver, blued, or black Model T's to Baskin Robbins.

I'd place the odds of this happening as close to 100% as I can. I don't necessarily think it's good or bad. . . but it will happen.

As far as the OP's news story, I agree that this guy isn't advancing the cause, but at least he's being calm, well spoken, and courteous. Better him on the news than a knucklehead. I agree with your assessment of his motives, even if he's not consciously aware of them. Besides places that serve alcohol, he better know where all the school are as well.

[Keith B]

I don't find any prohibition against carrying a non-illegal knife into a >51% location. What am I missing?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing. The dfinition of knife or illegal knife are found in 46.01:

TPC 46.01
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

So, 46.02 & 46.03 both specify 'illegal knife'. 46.035 only applies to handguns, so a 'knife' in itself that is not an 'illegal knife' does not meet the requirement and is not a prohibited weapon.

[RoyGBiv]

I don't find any prohibition against carrying a non-illegal knife into a >51% location. What am I missing?
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... /PE.46.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Nothing. The dfinition of knife or illegal knife are found in 46.01:

TPC 46.01
(6) "Illegal knife" means a:
(A) knife with a blade over five and one-half inches;
(B) hand instrument designed to cut or stab another by being thrown;
(C) dagger, including but not limited to a dirk, stiletto, and poniard;
(D) bowie knife;
(E) sword; or
(F) spear.
(7) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument.

So, 46.02 & 46.03 both specify 'illegal knife'. 46.035 only applies to handguns, so a 'knife' in itself that is not an 'illegal knife' does not meet the requirement and is not a prohibited weapon.

Why did I have the impression we were disagreeing previously?
Probably my reading comprehension...

[sunny beach]

Like blue sign......"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony ....."

If you're saying it's a felony to carry a Kershaw Blur at Double Daves Pizza because they serve beer, can you please show me what law says that. On the other hand, if you're saying it's a felony to carry an AR15 but not a Kershaw Blur, I'd like to see that law too. (Not arguing the sign says that but without a law the sign has no force of law.)

I'd like to see that too.

Not the sign requirement, but the prohibition against pocket knives and rifles. Because it isn't in 46.02 UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS.

[Doug.38PR]

Openly carrying a long gun into places where guns are not normally seen will not accomplish the stated goal of "educating" the public about guns. Prior to the Republican Party Convention in Houston in 2000, there were no restrictions on carrying long guns and these guns were fully protected under Texas preemption laws. During the convention, the New Black Panthers "marched" on the Brown Convention Center with their rifles and shotguns. Since this was not against the law, nothing could be done to prevent these obvious scare tactics. The next Texas legislative session saw a change in preemption laws that allows cities to regulate/prevent carrying of long guns at political rallies, parades, or official political meetings by everyone other than a CHL. Carrying a rifle into locations like stores, movies, etc. doesn't educate people, it scares them and scared people push for changes in the law that are detrimental to gun owners.

The people I've seen interviewed on TV have stated they are openly carrying rifles because they can't openly carry handguns. This isn't even an attempt to "educate the public," it's a blatant "you won't let me carry a handgun, so I'll carry something you'll find even scarier" attitude. The goal isn't education, it's intimidation -- let me do what I want or I'll do something you hate even more. That is a tactic destined to fail.

I have repeatedly stated that passage of open-carry will require a campaign to allay public fears of seeing handguns carried openly. Part of that process involves convincing people that those who want to open-carry are not doing so to draw attention to themselves and to appear like a modern day gunslinger. This goal is accomplished by articles, interviews, videos, meetings, etc. during which open-carry proponents are consummate statesmen. The goal of education is to change people's opinions. You do this by providing verifiable facts, not by intimidation and fear.

Chas.

[Does not prevent a city's authority to:] (6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

• (A) public park;
  
  (B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
  
  (C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

I know what you're saying. But in a way I disagree. You could look at it the reverse. It's not us (normal gun owning Texans) trying to intimiate them (the effeminant and transplanted among us), it rather us saying to them "you're not going to intimidate us"

Like I said, I'm not someone who wants to go out of his way to open carry and attract unwanted attention. It's not constructive use of my time. I live in Louisiana now where Open carry is legal according to what the law doesn't say. The only time I actually do it is when I'm in the country around my house and land. Strange as it may seem, I was actually approached by a LEO in regard to this. Apparently more than one Sheriff patrolcar was called out on me too. From the woods of my property I had seen several sheriff cars go by. When I was walking down teh road along my land a truck approached me and my dog from behind. I turned and waved to them. It was a Sheriff deputy (my S&W M-15 .38 was clearly on my hip in a pancake holster) We said hello to each other and he said there was a call out on me. I was stunned. "really?" says I. He said some of the kids on 4 wheelers riding around here had told their mommas there was a guy over here wearing a gun (sometimes carrying a longgun). Who knows how it was exaggerated from the 4 wheeler kids to the mommas to the sheriff. I calmly explained that I own the land along the road, always carry a handgun when I'm outside and sometimes do carry an M-1 Carbine slung over my shoulder and even do a little shooting on my land sometimes. He ask me my name and address. Told me he'd tell the mommas all is okay that I lived here and was just doing a little shooting occasionally. We wished each other a good day and evening and he left me to my business. Would I go down to Walmart in town and do that? Probably not.

Having said that, there are people over here to open carry everywhere and try to promote the legality of open carrying in Louisiana. I actually met some of them at their own table at a local gun about a month ago. Nice people. Level headed. I even came across a biker open carrying in a Huddle House one day. He had a CHL, but he was choosing to open carry. I approached him thinking his M-19 snubbie grips had popped up out of his pocket. He politely explained that it was intentional and it was legal.

[howdy]

Like blue sign......"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony ....."

If you're saying it's a felony to carry a Kershaw Blur at Double Daves Pizza because they serve beer, can you please show me what law says that. On the other hand, if you're saying it's a felony to carry an AR15 but not a Kershaw Blur, I'd like to see that law too. (Not arguing the sign says that but without a law the sign has no force of law.)

I have been out of town for a few days and not read the forum. I had to look "kershaw blue" up on Google to see what it was. I never mentioned a knife. If the knife is not legal, you can't carry it anywhere so that is a moot point. In general, the only person who can legally carry a gun of any type into a place that sells alchohol is a LEO/Judge, etc, and depending on the liquor license, a CHL holder. Read Keiths comments here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[nightmare69]

Like blue sign......"The unlicensed possession of a weapon on these premises is a felony ....."

If you're saying it's a felony to carry a Kershaw Blur at Double Daves Pizza because they serve beer, can you please show me what law says that. On the other hand, if you're saying it's a felony to carry an AR15 but not a Kershaw Blur, I'd like to see that law too. (Not arguing the sign says that but without a law the sign has no force of law.)

I have been out of town for a few days and not read the forum. I had to look "kershaw blue" up on Google to see what it was. I never mentioned a knife. If the knife is not legal, you can't carry it anywhere so that is a moot point. In general, the only person who can legally carry a gun of any type into a place that sells alchohol is a LEO/Judge, etc, and depending on the liquor license, a CHL holder. Read Keiths comments here: viewtopic.php?f=83&t=68536" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can carry inside a liqueur store and have. Big difference between a business that sells alcohol for off premises consumption vs on who sells for on premises consumption.

[CenTex]

I would suggest he be careful where he carrys that rifle. Both Wal-Mart and Double Daves Pizza sell beer.

Wal-Mart also sells guns and occasionally ammunition...

[texanjoker]

Openly carrying a long gun into places where guns are not normally seen will not accomplish the stated goal of "educating" the public about guns. Prior to the Republican Party Convention in Houston in 2000, there were no restrictions on carrying long guns and these guns were fully protected under Texas preemption laws. During the convention, the New Black Panthers "marched" on the Brown Convention Center with their rifles and shotguns. Since this was not against the law, nothing could be done to prevent these obvious scare tactics. The next Texas legislative session saw a change in preemption laws that allows cities to regulate/prevent carrying of long guns at political rallies, parades, or official political meetings by everyone other than a CHL. Carrying a rifle into locations like stores, movies, etc. doesn't educate people, it scares them and scared people push for changes in the law that are detrimental to gun owners.

The people I've seen interviewed on TV have stated they are openly carrying rifles because they can't openly carry handguns. This isn't even an attempt to "educate the public," it's a blatant "you won't let me carry a handgun, so I'll carry something you'll find even scarier" attitude. The goal isn't education, it's intimidation -- let me do what I want or I'll do something you hate even more. That is a tactic destined to fail.

I have repeatedly stated that passage of open-carry will require a campaign to allay public fears of seeing handguns carried openly. Part of that process involves convincing people that those who want to open-carry are not doing so to draw attention to themselves and to appear like a modern day gunslinger. This goal is accomplished by articles, interviews, videos, meetings, etc. during which open-carry proponents are consummate statesmen. The goal of education is to change people's opinions. You do this by providing verifiable facts, not by intimidation and fear.

Chas.

[Does not prevent a city's authority to:] (6) regulate the carrying of a firearm by a person other than a person licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, at a:

• (A) public park;
  
  (B) public meeting of a municipality, county, or other governmental body;
  
  (C) political rally, parade, or official political meeting; or

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