Why No Citation - Update Page 2

[gigag04]

Did the police witness the collision?

Curious how this would play in to whether or not the other driver should be cited?

[jimlongley]

. . . CHP surmised that the other driver didn't want anyone to know where he was, or with whom, or what he had in the car, etc. Whoever it was was in a heap of trouble!

A bunch of years ago my boss, Jack, at the phone company was riding with another boss, Fred, on the way to work, passing through a seedy rundown neighborhood near the telephone garage. There was a car on the two lane street ahead, waiting to turn left, so Fred (not my boss) pulled into the parking lane to go around the stopped vehicle and discovered that there was a Corvette parked a few feet ahead. It was sub zero weather and the very large plume of exhaust from the stopped car had obscured the Fred's view of the parking lane, not an excuse, merely explaining. The Corvette's body shattered in the cold, seriously, a bunch of us drove up to the scene on the way out of the garage that day, and it looked like the 'Vette had crumbled.

The Fred's car was drivable. They went from door to door in the apartment blocks along side the street and did not find anyone who claimed ownership of the 'Vette. They drove on down to the telco garage and reported the wreck and then Fred waited, for days, to hear anything from the police.

Having not heard anything from the police, Fred called our security department and had them do a check. It turned out the 'Vette was from a fancy suburban neighborhood twenty or more miles away, and the owner's wife, when contacted discreetly told them that her husband had told her the car was stolen while he was at work that day.

That's as far as anything went as far as I know. The police were very nice to Fred about it. Since there was no report of an accident from the owner of the 'Vette, they didn't hold Fred responsible. Although the 'Vette was wrecked, it was parked in a no parking 7am to 4pm spot and they felt the driver of the 'Vette would have been the responsible party. The 'Vette had been reported stolen several hours after the wreck, from the owner at his office, but nobody was able to explain how he knew it was stolen at that time.

We always thought that there was something else going on.

[RPB]

TIP: Never say, to anyone, that you feel fine following a collision. You may feel okay at the scene, but it may take many hours before symptoms become apparent.

That's correct ... You may have heard this before, a joke about people who tell officers and initial doctors and adjusters they are "fine" or "ok" when they are not.

At trial
Insurance Attorney: You said you were fine at the scene, when the officer asked you, why is that?

Plaintiff who was injured: The Defendant ran into my horse trailer and my truck, I was laying in a ditch on one side of the road, my horse in a ditch on the other. The officer informed me my horse had a broken leg and I hear BANG, he shot my horse, then the officer came over and asked how I was ... I said "fine"

[chasfm11]

Texting?

Possibly but these kinds of accidents happen without the help of an electronic device.

I was coming home from work on 3rd shift in center city Philadelphia, crossing the bridge toward 30th Street Station. I saw a taxi behind me and could tell that the driver was looking down at something, not paying attention.

- I could tell that traffic in front of me was going to slow considerably to make the corner coming up
- there was a tractor trailer in the left lane, effectively boxing me in.

I slowed quickly and pulled in behind the tractor trailer. The taxi went on and slammed hard into the car who had been in front of me. That was the start of a 3 car pileup, all resulting for the force of the taxi's unchecked speed But for the grace of God and my attentiveness to my rear view mirror, I would have been the first car in that collision. I stopped and gave a statement to police about what I had witnessed. The taxi driver had paperwork in his lap, not electronics.

Our son was stopped a a traffic signal in the left land behind another car. A driver in right lane changed lane for some unknown reason and slammed in the back of our son's Toyota Paseo without ever even hitting the brakes. The force of the collision broke our son's neck (C5) and crumpled the Paseo's trunk completely while driving it into the nearby median. God was watching over our son because the first person on the scene was a nurse who witnessed the accident and was on her way to work at hospital less than 1/2 mile away. If the paramedics had not handled the situation perfectly, our son would likely have been paralyzed today. There was no electronic device involved. Unlike me, there was no chance for our son to escape. The ambulance crew took photos of the Paseo to give to the doctor so that he would understand the force of the impact. The driver of the other vehicle did not receive a citation.

I probably spend more driving time looking in the mirror than looking ahead (I haven't had an accident in 30 years). I'm paranoid about inattentive drivers behind me and will do anything possible to get out of their way. I believe that I have averted dozens of accidents because I refuse to stay in front of someone who is obviously distracted. There is a 6 lane, 40mph road that I have to use constantly where blatant inattention happens all the time. For a 6 month period, the only citations issued by our LE on that road were for speeding. That is one of the reasons that the inattention continues in my opinion. I guess the PD has determined that it is just too difficult to prosecute those cases.

[Valk]

My wife saw someone hit our car (in the rear) in a parking lot in Phoenix. She drove and gave chase to the driver as he was trying to get out of the parking lot in a hurry. From what I could see, I thought he may be a gang member. He finally went into another parking lot and we drove up. I knew getting pictures of both cars was essential. Got the camera out of my wife’s purse only to find the flash card and camera were full. Ended up deleting photos.

I called 911 to report the accident. When they asked where we were I told them we didn’t have a clue. The dispatcher asked if we were blocking him in and I said no. We were NOT blocking him from getting away. We merely made it difficult for him to maneuver out of the situation. Within a few minutes an officer arrived. I told her up front I was aware that she could not do anything for accidents on private property, but I said I just wanted a report made out. I apologized to her knowing that reports of this nature are the last thing they want to do. She agreed.

When we were showing the officer the damage, the other driver started informing everyone “he had rights.” He was from Lebanon and ‘had a green card, therefore no one could touch him.” I told him it was called “diplomat immunity” and “that right” didn’t apply. He asked the officer “How did we know it was him driving? Who saw him do it? Where are the witnesses?” He started badmouthing my wife saying “she was crazy”, until I got him off to the side. (PM me if you want to know what I said).

When the officer was asking him questions, he only lied when his mouth opened. He wanted to know “what proof” we had. The officer ran her finger from the back of his (bronze) vehicle to the front seat door. She asked, where did the fresh white paint (same color as our car) come from? He didn’t have an answer. After she had listened to all he said and how he said it, she ended up going the extra mile by citing him for no insurance and “leaving the scene of an accident”(because it happened in another parking lot). I really was hoping they would take him downtown since he said he would be moving to Florida. In the end, at least I got his name “on the radar”!!

The vehicle did not belong to him. He had borrowed it and did not have a drivers license. The owner had insurance, but it had lapsed. The owner of the vehicle had the same insurance (Progressive) as we did.

What happens when you and the other driver have the same insurance company?

When we got back home a couple of days later, we had gotten calls from Progressive. They were calling about the accident. They had a different claim number than the one we were given. It took a while but we found out that the agent was in Phoenix and was working on the other vehicle. We got several notifications for the other vehicle. Can’t remember how many times we had to explain the situation. We had multiple agents calling and sending us letters.

We did get our car fixed, and the only agent that got it right was the one working at the repair facility. We got several letters from Progressive about their attempts to recover our deductible. Last month we got another letter stating that Progressive was still trying to get our deductible back. They said if they continued attempts to recover our deductible and were successful, I would have to pay a percentage for their efforts.

[recaffeination]

I agree about looking in the mirrors. If the first time I notce a truck is half a second before it rear ends me on the freeway, I should have been paying more attention. It's his fault for hitting me, but I'd rather avoid the question of fault by avoiding the collision if I can.

[Ameer]

That's as far as anything went as far as I know. The police were very nice to Fred about it. Since there was no report of an accident from the owner of the 'Vette, they didn't hold Fred responsible. Although the 'Vette was wrecked, it was parked in a no parking 7am to 4pm spot and they felt the driver of the 'Vette would have been the responsible party. The 'Vette had been reported stolen several hours after the wreck, from the owner at his office, but nobody was able to explain how he knew it was stolen at that time.

We always thought that there was something else going on.

The local vice cops probably could have told you the most likely reason he was parked in that neighborhood.

[sawdust]

Whys u guys picking on us txters? ur jus tryin to make it like its unsaf . Ive driven and txtd (like now) for years and nothing has ever happ

[WildBill]

Did the police witness the collision?

Curious how this would play in to whether or not the other driver should be cited?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know having a car crash [accident] in the U.S.A. is not a crime.

If the LEO didn't see what caused the collision or whether any of the drivers were breaking the law, what would they cite them for? Following too close? Unsafe lane change?

[jimlongley]

That's as far as anything went as far as I know. The police were very nice to Fred about it. Since there was no report of an accident from the owner of the 'Vette, they didn't hold Fred responsible. Although the 'Vette was wrecked, it was parked in a no parking 7am to 4pm spot and they felt the driver of the 'Vette would have been the responsible party. The 'Vette had been reported stolen several hours after the wreck, from the owner at his office, but nobody was able to explain how he knew it was stolen at that time.

We always thought that there was something else going on.

The local vice cops probably could have told you the most likely reason he was parked in that neighborhood.

Oh Yeah!

[JALLEN]

Did the police witness the collision?

Curious how this would play in to whether or not the other driver should be cited?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know having a car crash [accident] in the U.S.A. is not a crime.

If the LEO didn't see what caused the collision or whether any of the drivers were breaking the law, what would they cite them for? Following too close? Unsafe lane change?

Generally, police cannot arrest, or cite, without a warrant, for a misdemeanor not committed in their presence. An officer can arrest without a warrant if he believes a felony has been committed and the person he arrests committed it, certainly a felony committed in his presence. I don't know the specific Texas law but I bet there is a code section that spells it out in detail.

The officer has to see you run the light, or catch you speeding, typical traffic type misdemeanors/infractions. The citation usually is a promise to appear in court, in lieu of arrest and carting off to jail.

[WildBill]

Did the police witness the collision?

Curious how this would play in to whether or not the other driver should be cited?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but as far as I know having a car crash [accident] in the U.S.A. is not a crime.

If the LEO didn't see what caused the collision or whether any of the drivers were breaking the law, what would they cite them for? Following too close? Unsafe lane change?

Generally, police cannot arrest, or cite, without a warrant, for a misdemeanor not committed in their presence. An officer can arrest without a warrant if he believes a felony has been committed and the person he arrests committed it, certainly a felony committed in his presence. I don't know the specific Texas law but I bet there is a code section that spells it out in detail.

The officer has to see you run the light, or catch you speeding, typical traffic type misdemeanors/infractions. The citation usually is a promise to appear in court, in lieu of arrest and carting off to jail.

This is what I thought. That is why I didn't understand gigag04's comment.

[Jumping Frog]

Generally, police cannot arrest, or cite, without a warrant, for a misdemeanor not committed in their presence. An officer can arrest without a warrant if he believes a felony has been committed and the person he arrests committed it, certainly a felony committed in his presence. I don't know the specific Texas law but I bet there is a code section that spells it out in detail.

I don't know Texas law on it either, but I know in other states there are some misdemeanor exceptions carved out.

Some states allow the officer to arrest without witnessing crimes like criminal child enticement, public indecency, domestic violence, violating a protection order, menacing by stalking, aggravated trespass, or a theft offense. Traffic tickets? I agree with you that they generally need to witness it or have pretty indisputable evidence (like video for example).

[JALLEN]

I don't know Texas law on it either, but I know in other states there are some misdemeanor exceptions carved out.

Some states allow the officer to arrest without witnessing crimes like criminal child enticement, public indecency, domestic violence, violating a protection order, menacing by stalking, aggravated trespass, or a theft offense. Traffic tickets? I agree with you that they generally need to witness it or have pretty indisputable evidence (like video for example).

I don't recall ever seeing a provision for "indisputable evidence" as an exception to the general rule that an arrest without a warrant can only be made for offenses committed in the officer's presence. I can't even imagine what "indisputable evidence" might be, as even a guilty plea can be susceptible to interpretation.

There are statutes which define all this in gruesome detail. Not being a Texas lawyer, I really don't know where to look. Each state defines these things somewhat uniquely; I'm just giving the general rule, which most states will tend to follow with each having some unique exceptions and qualifiers, depending on the whim of each legislature. Once the legislature gets done with it, the courts get shots at interpretation of the statutes, so anything can happen!

[StewNTexas]

On the same road last Monday. Same direction, same clear conditions.

This time we were in our motorhome going North for a few days along the gulf coast. Planned for a day or two in Port O'Connor, then on to Port Lavaca, then further inland.

About a mile North of our first problem a while earlier, there was a rattle-trap pickup enterin the road about 500 yards ahead, but was staying on the shoulder. It looked like he was carrying a load of the old size bales of hay, stacked high.

I guess he decided he had enough speed to join traffic, so he pulled into the left lane about 300 yards ahead of us, not really increasing his speed. Then he decided to gun it. His load started to fall into the roadway just ahead of us. Now we could tell he was carrying a load of crab traps made of yellow colored chain-link fence material, which is why I first thought it was hay.

A quick glance into my left mirror indicated fast moving traffic, so I could not to there. For some reason the driver losing his load decided to stop in the right lane. Traps were still bouncing everywhere across both lanes and the median. I had a small clear area on the shoulder, so I decided to take that.

Almost got cleanly through, but did hit one crab trap. It went under the motorhome, but did not come out the back. I pulled onto the shoulder, reviewed my circumstances, realized all traffic behind me had stopped on both lanes, which were blocked. Gave a quick 911 call to get someone to help clear traffic and decided to try to back up a few feet to see if I could get the trap clear of my undercarriage.

That worked. My wife grabbed it, and gave it a toss. Had this been an olympic enent, she would have won a gold medal for distance, but not for style.

We have now marked our maps to avoid this road for at least six months, even if it costs us time and distance.

Overall a good trip. Wound up at Lake Texana just outside Edna. The Jackson County Fair was just opening, and we took a chance.

Price was decent. $5.00 a head go get in, free parking. Did not do much, but had a good time. Saw a guy carve a bear out of a cedar log, ate a funnel cake, and got me some sugar on the ferris wheel when it stopped at the top. As I said, overall a good trip.