Education Reform

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Texas Dan Mosby
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Re: Education Reform

#16

Post by Texas Dan Mosby »

misterholt wrote:26000 teachers in Chicago strike while 350000 kids aren't getting an education. I understand we all want job security and good pay. I think teachers deserve it more. The real issue isn't a fair teacher evaluation. It's what we allow our teachers to do. STOP mandatory state testing and let teachers actually oh I don't know.....TEACH!
Let them teach. Agree.

However, to what standard?

There HAS to be a realistic performance standard we can expect out of a student at each grade, and while the exact nature of the standards are certainly debatable, I would never agree with eliminating them entirely.
88 day wait for the state to approve my constitutional right to bear arms...

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misterholt
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Re: Education Reform

#17

Post by misterholt »

It should be based on the pass fail rate of the students. Like it was said previously, salesman can say "You can't make a customer buy" but the great salesman close the majority of the time.

Now as for a standard. Like it's stated above, figure out where the child is at academically and place them accordingly. Give them a good teacher who can make them progress and at the end of the EOCs for everyone. Teachers with unacceptable failure rates aren't doing their due diligence. I'm only 22 but I remember all the teachers who would help at the end of the day if you didn't understand a concept or needed so extra help.

It's like our teachers want to get paid, a pretty good wage I might add, and not really have to teach more than what is required by law. Take the law out of it, still fund the schools and the teachers, and require the parents to sign off on homework. Problem solved.
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Matt 5:9

lama
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Re: Education Reform

#18

Post by lama »

One thing, you can't only measure pass fail rates. While I agree the excuse you can't make them learn ... has weight I know a few teachers that are good teachers but if you only look at passfail they look bad. Half of their students do show up. They can't make them show up and if they don't attend they can't teach them.
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WildBill
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Re: Education Reform

#19

Post by WildBill »

There have been a lot of good ideas on this thread. Unfortunately we won't solve the problems here.

In my opinion, AnyGun's comment about parents is probably the biggest factor in getting a good education. Not neccesarily two, but concerned and involved parents. It is not surprising that most of the better students have educated parents. The parents are the ones who need to instill the value of an education, give support and show their children by example. My father didn't finish his degree until I was in junior high, and then went on to get his master's degree. All while working full-time and raising a family.

I was lucky enough to be raised in a family that valued education. As a child I did not know where I would go to college or what subject I would study, but it was a given that I would go and graduate from college. My father and mother made me sure that I knew this from a very early age. My brothers and sisters also received the same message.

It takes a very special child to do well in school who doesn't have the home life that is conducive to learning. Having parents who are too busy or care more about themselves than their children's education makes it difficult for a student to study and do their homework and suceed. There are children many who overcome this handicap, but most do not.

Through out my life, I have had excellent, good, mediocre and horrible teachers. In the workforce, I have had the same spectrum of managers and co-workers, so I am not going to bash teachers or their unions. Teachers, "good or bad" have only so much control over the education of their students. If the students don't show up or come in late or unprepared there is only so much a teacher can do. One thing that school administrators can do is make sure that the teachers have the resources that they need to teach their students. They can also minimize the politics and bureaucracy so that they don't tie up their time with non-productive projects and meetings.

One of the reasons that private schools can provide a better education is because to their students education is a privilege, not a right. Private schools have much more discretion who they accept into their school and who they allow to stay in their school. They have the flexibility to remove a disruptive or truant student who takes away from the education of other students.

If you look at any good school or university, it is not the teachers or the professors that make them a good school. It is the caliber of the students and their desire and willingness to learn and suceed that makes them good. :tiphat:
Last edited by WildBill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:41 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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74novaman
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Re: Education Reform

#20

Post by 74novaman »

This picture seems relevant:

Image


The entire progressive education movement did a lot to hurt this country.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: Education Reform

#21

Post by anygunanywhere »

RoyGBiv wrote:
anygunanywhere wrote:It isn't about how good or bad the teachers are necessarily, it is how involved a child's parents are in raising and teaching their children. Notice that I said parents, plural, both, as in mom and dad.

Anygunanywhere
I'm a big believer that course material should be 100% taught in class and that homework should reinforce what the students were taught in class. I see too many examples of kids that come home with homework on topics that were not taught in class and they are expected to learn the material on their own. That means parents (if the kids are lucky enough to have two at home) get to work 12 hours days and come home to kids who need help learning new material in order to complete homework.

I had just such a discussion with a neighbor this weekend. His kid is a straight-A student and very smart.
He and his wife had a meeting with the school principal already over this. Principal said "you should talk with your kids teachers" and my neighbor said "that is your job, you are the administrator, do your job."

WHY is class material being learned at home? Because class time is spent teaching kids at the slowest level. I can't tell you how to fix this in public schools, but a voucher system would go a long way. Paying for under-performance in public schools is unacceptable.

Whoever said "stop coddling" above is right on... Life is tough. Not all snowflakes are equal. Stop pretending they are.
Not disputing your statement at all. What you stated is an issue. Both parents having to work long hours to provide is a messed up deal too. We all make decisions that affect our ability to raise our children. Is too much material stuff wrong? Parents need to decide. Parents need to determine how their child progresses, not school administrators. We were plenty invoved with our two sons and had multiple sessions with teachers and administrators to express our concerns over various aspects of the curriculum and teaching methods. Results are two strong, educated young men. Oldest graduated #10 in his class, youngest #7. Oldest has a masters degree, youngest a bachelors, both in fields they love. Results.

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emcee rib
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Re: Education Reform

#22

Post by emcee rib »

Fire them all and hire people who want to work. That should be no problem with the current unemployment rates,
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Education Reform

#23

Post by Charles L. Cotton »

Excellent post Bill.

Chas.
WildBill wrote:There have been a lot of good ideas on this thread. Unfortunately we won't solve the problems here.

In my opinion, AnyGun's comment about parents is probably the biggest factor in getting a good education. Not neccesarily two, but concerned and involved parents. It is not surprising that most of the better students have educated parents. The parents are the ones who need to instill the value of an education, give support and show their children by example. My father didn't finish his degree until I was in junior high, and then went on to get his master's degree. All while working full-time and raising a family.

I was lucky enough to be raised in a family that valued education. As a child I did not know where I would go to college or what subject I would study, but it was a given that I would go and graduate from college. My father and mother made me sure that I knew this from a very early age. My brothers and sisters also received the same message.

It takes a very special child to do well in school who doesn't have the home life that is conducive to learning. Having parents who are too busy or care more about themselves than their children's education makes it difficult for a student to study and do their homework and suceed. There are children many who overcome this handicap, but most do not.

Through out my life, I have had excellent, good, mediocre and horrible teachers. In the workforce, I have had the same spectrum of managers and co-workers, so I am not going to bash teachers or their unions. Teachers, "good or bad" have only so much control over the education of their students. If the students don't show up or come in late or unprepared there is only so much a teacher can do. One thing that school administrators can do is make sure that the teachers have the resources that they need to teach their students. They can also minimize the politics and bureaucracy so that they don't tie up their time with non-productive projects and meetings.

One of the reasons that private schools can provide a better education is because to their students education is a privilege, not a right. Private schools have much more discretion who they accept into their school and who they allow to stay in their school. They have the flexibility to remove a disruptive or truant student who takes away from the education of other students.

If you look at any good school or university, it is not the teachers or the professors that make them a good school. It is the caliber of the students and their desire and willingness to learn and suceed that makes them good. :tiphat:

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misterholt
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Re: Education Reform

#24

Post by misterholt »

Not gonna lie. Feels kinda good to have the administrator on a thread I created.

And to Bill. I think that would just about solve it. Now lets all get together, form a piece of legislation that provide vouchers to parents who want their children to receive an education from a private institution. #merica :patriot:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God." Matt 5:9
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WildBill
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Re: Education Reform

#25

Post by WildBill »

misterholt wrote:Not gonna lie. Feels kinda good to have the administrator on a thread I created.

And to Bill. I think that would just about solve it. Now lets all get together, form a piece of legislation that provide vouchers to parents who want their children to receive an education from a private institution. #merica :patriot:
I am not quite ready to testify before congress about educational reform. ;-)

I was still writing, polishing and editing some of the mistakes in my post, but it's always nice to get a complement from Charles. :tiphat:
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VoiceofReason
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Re: Education Reform

#26

Post by VoiceofReason »

emcee rib wrote:Fire them all and hire people who want to work. That should be no problem with the current unemployment rates,
I personally wouldn’t be a teacher for the money they make and what they have to put up with.

I would mow lawns and collect scrap metal before I would be a teacher.

Society is very lucky to find people that will get a degree then try to teach a bunch of spoiled brats something while putting up with idiot administrators and jerk parents.

Yea, do away with the union, cut their pay and benefits, and give them no say so in their working conditions. That ought to attract a better caliber of teachers. "rlol" "rlol"
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glockstero
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Re: Education Reform

#27

Post by glockstero »

You got kids? It's up to you to raise them right. You may not like the way I would straighten them out. Don't bring your failed projects to the restaurant I am trying to enjoy dinner at. :clapping:
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anygunanywhere
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Re: Education Reform

#28

Post by anygunanywhere »

VoiceofReason wrote:
emcee rib wrote:Fire them all and hire people who want to work. That should be no problem with the current unemployment rates,
I personally wouldn’t be a teacher for the money they make and what they have to put up with.

I would mow lawns and collect scrap metal before I would be a teacher.

Society is very lucky to find people that will get a degree then try to teach a bunch of spoiled brats something while putting up with idiot administrators and jerk parents.

Yea, do away with the union, cut their pay and benefits, and give them no say so in their working conditions. That ought to attract a better caliber of teachers. "rlol" "rlol"
Our oldest son is an athletic trainer at a Spring ISD high school. His wife, our first daughter-in-law is an elementary school PE teacher who specializes in special needs children. Our second daughter-in-law is a high school advanced placement english teacher at one of the Fort Bend high schools. They are all committed to their professions and love what they do.

If you ask any of them what the biggest issue is that they face each and every day, it is the lack of proper parenting. Many parents these days have not got a clue about what it takes to raise children. Our son the trainer does not see this as much as our daughters-in-law. The elementary school PE teacher sees horrific examples daily of the lack of parenting skills. Many of her students regularly show up to school in pajamas and must be sent home to change.

Pitiful.

Anygunanywhere
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ffemt300
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Re: Education Reform

#29

Post by ffemt300 »

As a union firefighter we are not allowed to strike, but I guarantee if we were there are some who would, given the right circumstances. I think strikes are nothing more than hissy fits thrown by whiny babies. It accomplishes nothing but failure of the core mission and hard feelings between management and labor. The core mission is not being accomplished with these teachers. They signed up to teach. They're not doing it. Fire them. Get someone in there that will accomplish the mission. There are plenty of unemployed people who would love to have a job these days. If the union teachers decide to grow up and be adults, then welcome them back with open arms and "get on with the chlorophyll" :coolgleamA:

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Re: Education Reform

#30

Post by recaffeination »

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Chicago should follow President Reagan's lead and fire all of them as he fired traffic controllers who illegally went on strike. This presumes a teachers' strike is illegal. If it isn't, it should be illegal.

The better fix for Texas is to shut down public schools and privatize education. With few exceptions, big city school districts are nothing more than poor daycare centers.

Chas.
:iagree:

If parents had to spend their own money, instead of sticking other people with the bill, they would probably pay more attention to the edutainment daycare their kids get. If not, at least it's their money they're wasting on football stadiums instead of teaching the 3Rs.
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