Electric help needed

[BR549]

When you pull the recepticle out of the wall you will notice that the brass terminals (with the black wires attached either by wrapping around the screws or plunged into the the back) have a breakaway tab removed--this allows the "hot" side (small slot) to be independent, i.e., switched top and perm. "hot" bottom. The silver or "neutral" side will not likely have the tab removed since all "neutral" wires are essentially tied together anyhow, as described in an above post. It is therefore essential that you connect the black wire going from the recepticle location to your first sconce to the top half of the brass terminal on the receptacle. The white wire can go anywhere on the neutral side.
One further caution-- depending on where the switch that controls the upper half of the receptacle is "fed", (gets power), it is possible that you will have to turn off 2 breakers to kill power to both halves of the recepticle. By NEC they are supposed to be on same circuit, but don't bet your life that they are.

[wally775]

Jeeper,

Hello.
Let me first say I am not an electrician.
I have owned more than one old house and have done what you speak of many times.

Some questions.
Do have and do you know how to use an ohm meter?
Do you have a circuit (120-220v) tester? 8- 10 bucks home depot?
Allows you to check if wire is hot without uncovering the wire.
Very handy to have around.
Cautions.
Correct. Turn off the breaker then use equipment to make sure there is
no current.
Never touch anything you think might be hot with the inside of your hand,
use the back side.
Make sure whatever wattage you are adding to the circuit will not overload
the amps for that circuit.
Don’t leave any bare wires.
Any connection or screwed in connection must be tight.

I am basing the information on the fact you say you have already done electrical
work.

Take it slow and
# 1 RULE. DO NOT MAKE YOURSELF PART OF THE CIRCUIT.

IANAE
Proceed at your own risk.
Pm me if you have any questions.

[glbedd53]

Like he said. Get a multimeter, (volt ohm meter). I depend on them daily. I'm not a true electrician either but I do work on 120V custodial equipment for a living.

[RPB]

Jeeper,

# 1 RULE. DO NOT MAKE YOURSELF PART OF THE CIRCUIT.

IANAE
Proceed at your own risk.
Pm me if you have any questions.

True, it makes circuit diagrams impossible to draw ... I don't recall a symbol for humans in a circuit.

[jeeperbryan]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm glad I posted because there's some things that I've done in the past (touched wires with front of fingers, made myself a circuit, etc) that I never even thought of. I'll definitely take all your advice when I tackle this next weekend.

One other thing I was thinking.....do you recommend wearing rubber gloves when doing electric work? Seems like that would cut down the chances of getting zapped?

[Pawpaw]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm glad I posted because there's some things that I've done in the past (touched wires with front of fingers, made myself a circuit, etc) that I never even thought of. I'll definitely take all your advice when I tackle this next weekend.

One other thing I was thinking.....do you recommend wearing rubber gloves when doing electric work? Seems like that would cut down the chances of getting zapped?

I recommend against that for 2 reasons.

First, unless they are very form-fitting you will find it difficult to do anything useful. While working with AWG 12 wires and a screwdriver don't appear to be "detail work", when you add gloves it will be almost impossible.

Second, they will create a false sense of security. The cut ends of the wire tend to be very sharp. If a wire or your screwdriver poke a hole in the glove, where's your safety?

It is far better to use a tester to make sure the power is off and then proceed with caution.

[lonewolf]

As I sit here under the ceiling fan I installed in my garage (smoking lounge), I can say sincerely that the points above are great!! I've installed many fans, replaced light fixtures and switches, and worked on high amperage electric forklifts for many years. Never wore gloves. Don't wear any jewelry, either. Very conductive. Gold heats up REALLY fast and will cause burns as well as electocution, as its VERY conductive. Still have all my fingers and such. Some aren't so lucky.

Never use your fingers/hands to check for power. Always use a meter. Shut the power off at the breaker and the switch. That way your significant other doesn't walk in and flip the switch while you are working. Bring in an independent light source if needed.

Point one amp (one-tenth of an amp) can be fatal. Don't take any safety precautions for granted. Just as with firearms.

I am not an electrician.....

[RPB]

I always put scotch tape over the breaker and switch too .... just cause I can....
reminds ME not to flip it on to turn on the light so I can see better to install the light .... (old age does odd things to memory)

Yeah, I almost did that once.

[jeeperbryan]

First thing I'm picking up is a meter. I always shutoff at the breaker and I normally shutoff power to more areas than the one I'm working in just to be on the safe side.

One thing I've been guilty of is wearing my wedding ring while doing electrical stuff. Not sure why that never occurred to me but I definitely be more cautious going forward.

[O6nop]

+1 0n the circuit tester. It's the best way to check for live circuit. Unless you've had considerable experience with a VOM it can sometimes fool you. The circuit tester senses current without having to touch any bare wires. And it's very simple and straight forward to use. Check it out on a wire that you know is live, like a lamp cord to make sure it is operational. Check the circuit, check it again then check it again. Treat that wire like a gun, figure it is ALWAYS live (loaded), until you check it, check it, check it.

[ninemm]

I don't do much electrical work nowadays but still keep my state Master Electrician license current. But when I did, I never gave much thought to the shoes I wore, so the comment that "electicians wear rubber soled shoes" surprised me. I hardly ever bother to turn a breaker off. Instead, I (and almost every other electrician I know) just intentionally shorts the circuit since you can spend a lot of time determining which breaker controls the circuit you want to work on. Touching something with the back of your hand to test for voltage is not too smart. Just stick an old screwdriver in there (you could ruin a good one if it is hot) and short it out first.

[jimlongley]

What everyone said above, get a meter, or at a minimum a tester, and use it.

I used to have my Journeyman ticket, a very long time ago, but I still do a little here and there, and was a telephone man for an entire career.

First of all, you haven't quite provided enough information. How do you intend to get the power from the switched outlet to the sconces? Are you going to hard wire from the outlet, or just run a power cord? Yes, if you tap off the outlet properly, hard wired, you will accomplish your aim, but also make sure, even if unlikely, that the switch isn't controlling more stuff than the one outlet. This sounds like a common bedroom wiring scenario, where, say, a bedside lamp might be controlled by a switch next to the door so the outlet is split with one side constantly live and the other switched. But I had a house here, in Plano TX, where the switch also, probably because the previous owner did some amateur electrical work, very amateur, controlled a full outlet on the other side of the wall.

Be sure, if you choose to hard wire to the switched outlet, that you choose the proper half of the outlet (duh? right? Seen it done wrong as late as last month at Home Depot.) and also, and this might be counter intuitive, make sure that the lights are not on one breaker and the outlets on another, 120v might not fry you, but I have seen 48v surprise people, including me, enough to inflict a nasty bruise and minor cuts just due to the flinch. I have seen a wiring setup where the outlets on the second floor of the house were all on one breaker, and the lights and fans were on a separate one.

I have seen attempts at wiring a three way set of switches result in a constantly energized white wire.

I have also survived 440 volts, three phase, coursing through my right arm. Left a hole in the palm of my right hand big enough to cradle an M&M and it took the better part of 30 years to close up all the way and still is an angry red spot at times.

[jimlongley]

Jeeper,

# 1 RULE. DO NOT MAKE YOURSELF PART OF THE CIRCUIT.

IANAE
Proceed at your own risk.
Pm me if you have any questions.

True, it makes circuit diagrams impossible to draw ... I don't recall a symbol for humans in a circuit.

Now I have to go look in my CAD files, I have one, kind of cute actually, drawn by a friend in the Engineering Department of NY Telephone Co.

[92f-fan]

In trying to add a light to the outside circuit I turned off the breaker that powered the existing light then attempted to simply tap into that circuit - The trouble is that there are 3 switches in the box and there are at least 2 switches on the house that control those lights and SOMEHOW the circuit is still energized with the breaker off... I normally do simple electric work myself but may call a pro for this one ...

the real shame is i added the wire and the fixture when I had the whole wall open - It would have been MUCH easier to simply connect the wires then, because I could see where all the wires went and figure out what the heck was going on... Unfortunately I was running out of time and didnt

I may take the previous recommendation and simply turn off the one breaker and short the wires to see where the other circuit is