Robbed Inside Walmart - Houston

[SQLGeek]

Whats truly amazing to me (and I guess it shoulnt be at this point) is how many of the people that posted comments think their safety is someone else's job.

It is a common sheeple mentality unfortunately.

[blackdog8200]

Lets play what if?

So you are on the next aisle over and hear the assault going on. You carefully stick your head around the corner to get a better look. Man has a knife to a woman's throat and is trying to grab stuff away from her.....What do you do next?

Dial 911 and hand the phone to your wife while you draw your weapon and wait for the guy to release the woman with the knife?? Then confront him?
Draw down on the guy and and tell him to drop the knife?
Scan the area for accomplises and then do one of the above?
Use a well place shot to the head to neutralize the threat? (not me)

Some parameters to consider:

Lets place them at mid aisle say 15 to 20 feet away and you are not yet seen by the bad guy.

My first response:
I have utmost respect for the knife so if he moves towards me with it he is getting shot at. (I figure to be pretty wound up by now)

I think I might dial 911 and hand the phone off if possible...draw and observe from cover, putting myself between him and my wife..... if not I would draw, scan for other actors, then from as covered postion as possible use a comand voice yelling, "STOP A...le!" Then wait to see what he does. If he bugs out the other direction, great! Then all I need do is re-holster, render assistance and raise heck long enough to get store security or others involved.

If he hurts the woman God forbid...two to the chest and one to the head. Same thing if he charges me.

The more sane response might just be to dial 911 while running for help?

Having a gunfight in Walmart, when I or my family are not directly threatened seems like a bad idea al around. Not to mention be the guy with the gun in his hand pointed at two screaming people might just get me shot by one of you or the LEO that was two aisles away!

What would you do?

[MojoTexas]

Lets play what if?

So you are on the next aisle over and hear the assault going on. You carefully stick your head around the corner to get a better look. Man has a knife to a woman's throat and is trying to grab stuff away from her.....What do you do next?

(snip...)

What would you do?

Wow. That's a tough one. My gut instinct would probably be to confront the bad guy. I wouldn't draw at first, depending on how far away I was, but I'd probably say something like, "Leave that woman alone!" I've mentioned in some other posts that I'm a big guy...I would hope that having a angry guy over 6'6" tall yelling at him would get him to drop the knife and/or run.

If he turned on me, the gun would be out in a flash, and if he came at me with the knife I would fire (moving to one side to avoid hitting the woman).

After careful thought, the politically correct answer (at least in Houston) would be to call 911, and try to follow the guy, getting a good description. My only concern would be if he used the knife on the woman after robbing her....I would feel horrible that I didn't do more to stop the crime.

Then again, if I confronted him, who is to say he wouldn't keep the woman hostage? According to the article he had his arm around her neck and had the knife to her back. He could've easily said, "Get lost or I'll kill her."

I'm curious what other people think...

MojoTexas

[Mike1951]

It occurs to me that a shopping cart would make a fine offensive or defensive weapon. If she was chasing him, running a cart up on his heels would have taken him down.

If he gets up, the cart should keep him at more than arm's distance.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

I'm just glad Quanell X is involved. That guy gives me warm fuzzies.

PS: Even if I didn't have a CHL I would probably still carry at Walmart, especially if it was in Gunspoint!

[KD5NRH]

He could've easily said, "Get lost or I'll kill her."

At which point you could always try mind games; after all, the antis say we only carry because we're looking for an excuse to shoot people. Maybe he'll believe it too.

Worst case, I wouldn't be too inclined to bet the victim's life on the implied converse; that he won't kill her if you do what he says. Cutting deep enough to kill isn't as easy as the movies make it look, (especially with what some people consider to be a "sharp" knife - try using a steak knife on a hog or deer sometime) so plan to have a brief reaction period if he does try.

[smyrna]

I'm just glad Quanell X is involved. That guy gives me warm fuzzies.

From the article, "Community activist Quanell X is standing behind Jones."

Uhhhh, yeah...Oh Quantell stands behind anyone as long as they don't actually defend property or life...

http://www.click2houston.com/news/14643409/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[buffalo_speedway_tx]

IMO I think confronting the guy while he has a knife to the woman's back may escalate the situation. I would think that standing off and observing and intervening directly during the robbery only if he starts to act on his threat to harm her. If this is the case the second problem I see is to make sure the victim is out of the field of fire if it becomes necessary to shoot. Hopefully at 6am there is not that many people in the store that would come into the field of fire. I agree with those that say they wouldn't draw once the guy starts to retreat. I would only do it if he harms the victim or threatens me or my family directly.

Now as far as Walmart is concerned I would think they have a responsibility to provide for the safety of their customers in the store.

[Embalmo]

I can't imagine a confrontation making the woman in any more danger-"DROP THAT KNIFE!" is not going to make the guy start stabbing, or cutting the woman; it's most likely going to startle and distract, and as the confronter, a handgun has a much better range than a knife.

Embalmo

[buffalo_speedway_tx]

Appreciate your point. I was looking at from the standpoint of not wanting to put the victim in any more danger then she already was.

[GhostTX]

I'd be willing to bet if you confronted the guy:

A) He'd flee.
B) He'd get macho and come after you, then giving you every right to draw.

In short, the decision would be made for you on what to do if you challenge.

[Embalmo]

I'd be willing to bet if you confronted the guy:

A) He'd flee.
B) He'd get macho and come after you, then giving you every right to draw.

In short, the decision would be made for you on what to do if you challenge.

I agree-I doubt he would go Hollywood and say, "Get back or I'll cut her!" He might lift his knife, and say, "Get back unless you want some of this!" and my hand would be on the handle of my gun before I even confronted him.

[blackdog8200]

It occurs to me that a shopping cart would make a fine offensive or defensive weapon. If she was chasing him, running a cart up on his heels would have taken him down.

If he gets up, the cart should keep him at more than arm's distance.

Now this is what I am talking about....thinking outside the box. While trying to imagine how I would react, I had already developed tunnel vision and not thought of the cart.....

It would help buy time if he came at you as well....

[A-R]

Just stumbled upon this thread. My "outside the box" thinking is this:

Say this exact same scenario happens in a business that has posted 30.06 ...

Now does the business have some responsibility to protect this woman, whom they've effectively disarmed? Legally, probably not. But I'd certainly like to see it played out in court. I'd even offer to help with her legal expenses (assuming she has a CHL of course).

And before you say, well just don't go inside a 30.06 business just remember there are some 30.06-posted business (like hospitals) that you don't have much choice. If you or a loved one are injured or sick and you require hospital care and your insurance only covers Hospital A (which posts 30.06), then it's not like you can choose to go across the street to Hospital B.

[Excaliber]

From the article:

She said the manager told her that the security guards cannot get involved with robberies. "He said even if the security guards had been inside the store, there's nothing that they can do," Jones said. "They are there to protect the store."

Uhhh.....why do they even have them then? Protect the store?? They are under strict orders not to stop a shoplifter. This is almost funny.

Welcome to security theater.

The uniformed guards' primary purpose is to create the illusion of protection so people who know the area is unsafe will ignore what they know to be fact and feel safe while the guards are around. This encourages them to continue to patronize establishments in dangerous locations. The strategy works well on most of the population, who think that anyone in a uniform has the training and authority of a police officer (or something close to it.) They don't realize that many (but not all) unarmed guard services pull from the same labor pool as temporary staffing agencies for warehouses and landscaping companies.

The mask comes off occasionally, as it did here and in Seattle recently, where guards who were explicitly given the standard "observe and report only" instruction stood by as a young woman was beaten.

A few folks who read the resulting article or see the video will figure out that what they have believed to be an indication of safety is nothing more than an illusion, but the rest of the world will go happily on believing they are protected when one of these folks whose assignment is not to intervene is in view.

As long as that situation continues, it will be profitable for companies to continue the practice. A little bad PR now and then comes with the territory, but it fades quickly from the news and folks go on as before.