Thoughts On Foreign Trained MD's

[Vol Texan]

I have had medical treatment in Singapore, Thailand, and Nigeria. All were superb. I find that docs here in the US spend far too much energy testing, re-testing, and re-re-testing in order to avoid lawsuits, and the foreign docs I visited overseas focused on diagnosis and then treatment, without wasting too much time.

[VMI77]

Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

[sugar land dave]

My former PCP was Russian; my current one is caucasian about 75 years old. My former cardiologist was Lebanese; my current one is caucasian and a dwarf. My nephrologist is jewish. They all are excellent for my individual needs from each one. The point should be researching for what they know related to what you need not where do they come from, what is their religion, what race are they, or who is on their bowling team.

They still have to take and pass the American testing standards to be certified no matter where they studied. You still should ask questions and be an active participant in treatment and medicine decisions rather than meekly sitting in the chair. No good doctor will be offended by you showing an interest in your own treatment.

[WildBill]

Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

I completely agree with this statement. If there were as many medical schools as law schools, heath care costs would be reasonable.

[Abraham]

SLD,

"...rather than meekly sitting in the chair."

Me?

Meek?

Why ya hardly know me...

[Bitter Clinger]

Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

I completely agree with this statement. If there were as many medical schools as law schools, heath care costs would be reasonable.

Sorry guys, but your theory about medical schools limiting supply does not hold water. The problem is the insurance companies making a medicine an awful place to work - as physicians who care about patients are penalized for "low productivity" and Obamacare has made that 100X worse. As far as American born medical students, the number is decreasing because a majority of American kids just don't want to work that hard or deprive themselves of material wealth until their 30's. No problem filling physical therapy and forest rangery classes. RN's and PA's have an important role, but they are not able to replace experienced, trained physicians. The RN / PA push is many times simply a method to increase "productivity" and meet the infinite number of moronic metrics propagated by new MBA graduates and "lean six sigma" experts. If you desire the best medical care, and you are able to access it, always try to get to a University affiliated teaching hospital.

[Beiruty]

To practice as Medical Doctors, all have to be Board Certified in their Specialty. Two of my friends are born and graduated from Syria's Medical Schools. One was number #1 in his class. He came to US and specialized as Pathologist. He became Director of Pathology Division at University of Texas, Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas.
The second, has a similar background, and became a prominent Neurologist in Lubbock, TX.

4 of my cousins (3 brothers, 1 sister) all graduated from American University of Beirut (founded in 1866).
1) The elder is a very successful Pulmonologist
2) The second is a well know Vascular Surgeon
3) The third, a well doing pediatritionist
4) The fourth, she is an MD too. She did here fellowship in US , but she moved to Dubai, UAE.

[Surgeon]

I'm in medical/pharmaceutical sales and I call on Medical professionals daily. It really makes no difference where they're from. One, a primary care doc, in Beaumont/Port Arthur is from Hatti, speaks four languages and still makes house calls on his patients, another, a Cardiologist, is from the middle east and is one of the best I've ever seen both in his specialty and in patient care. My own PCP is American born, who's parents were from India and has a bedside manner with no equal. Prior to that my PCP in East Texas had a large practice and my FFL guy on the side. That being said, there are bad and good from all walks of life, kinda like lawyers. Referrals, Health Grades, WebMD, Health Net and some other are a good resource as places to start. It never hurts to ask for patient referrals went inquiring but may not matter if a doc is outside your network.

[WildBill]

Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

I completely agree with this statement. If there were as many medical schools as law schools, heath care costs would be reasonable.

Sorry guys, but your theory about medical schools limiting supply does not hold water. The problem is the insurance companies making a medicine an awful place to work - as physicians who care about patients are penalized for "low productivity" and Obamacare has made that 100X worse. As far as American born medical students, the number is decreasing because a majority of American kids just don't want to work that hard or deprive themselves of material wealth until their 30's. No problem filling physical therapy and forest rangery classes. RN's and PA's have an important role, but they are not able to replace experienced, trained physicians. The RN / PA push is many times simply a method to increase "productivity" and meet the infinite number of moronic metrics propagated by new MBA graduates and "lean six sigma" experts. If you desire the best medical care, and you are able to access it, always try to get to a University affiliated teaching hospital.

I agree that insurance companies are making medicine an awful place to work for doctors, but I still think it's about maintaining high salaries for doctors. Medical schools don't lack for qualified applicants. There are plenty of qualified and highly motivated students who are turned down due to lack of space. The high cost also deters many qualified students.

[rotor]

To practice as Medical Doctors, all have to be Board Certified in their Specialty.

Not true. They don't have to be board certified and although I prefer seeing a board certified doctor the requirements for staying board certified are so ridiculous that many are no longer re-certifying and many non-certified specialists are just fine.

[C-dub]

Ya'll are correct. Just because someone has a medical degree in another country doesn't mean they can just come on over and hang out a shingle and start taking patients. They gotta go through part of the process here to become certified and licensed. That even happens within the country from state to state. Doctors moving from one state to another must take a board exam to become certified to practice in their new state. Those that can't pass that exam after 3, IIRC, attempts cannot practice in the state. The number and time frame may vary from state to state.

I worked in a nursing department many years ago while I was in school. That's how I picked out my future daughter's pediatrician.

[Bitter Clinger]

Well, the average engineer that I've encountered that was educated in Mexico has been better educated than the average engineer I've encountered in the US...across the board. In cases of high specialization that may not be true but then almost all the Phd engineers I know are foreigners and most of them were educated in the US. Then again I'm dealing with a small sample size so my experience may not be representative.

Also, I have the impression that admission to medical school may play a role in limiting the supply of doctors in order to keep doctors in the money, so it may be more of a quantity than a quality issue. I also think a lot of what doctors do has more to do with keeping supply limited than it has to do with the requirements of good medical care. IOW, RNs and PA's could do a lot of it.

So personally, I am not at all concerned that a doctor is foreign born or foreign educated. Come to think of it, I've run into to plenty of American born and educated doctors that weren't up to snuff, but not any foreign ones.

I completely agree with this statement. If there were as many medical schools as law schools, heath care costs would be reasonable.

Sorry guys, but your theory about medical schools limiting supply does not hold water. The problem is the insurance companies making a medicine an awful place to work - as physicians who care about patients are penalized for "low productivity" and Obamacare has made that 100X worse. As far as American born medical students, the number is decreasing because a majority of American kids just don't want to work that hard or deprive themselves of material wealth until their 30's. No problem filling physical therapy and forest rangery classes. RN's and PA's have an important role, but they are not able to replace experienced, trained physicians. The RN / PA push is many times simply a method to increase "productivity" and meet the infinite number of moronic metrics propagated by new MBA graduates and "lean six sigma" experts. If you desire the best medical care, and you are able to access it, always try to get to a University affiliated teaching hospital.

I agree that insurance companies are making medicine an awful place to work for doctors, but I still think it's about maintaining high salaries for doctors. Medical schools don't lack for qualified applicants. There are plenty of qualified and highly motivated students who are turned down due to lack of space. The high cost also deters many qualified students.

May I ask you to please share your data? Thanks!

[WildBill]

May I ask you to please share your data? Thanks!

I don't have any data to share or otherwise.
I have stated my opinions and impressions about the issues.
If working as an MD in the US is so awful why do we have so many foreign trained doctors wanting to work here?

[rotor]

Ya'll are correct. Just because someone has a medical degree in another country doesn't mean they can just come on over and hang out a shingle and start taking patients. They gotta go through part of the process here to become certified and licensed. That even happens within the country from state to state. Doctors moving from one state to another must take a board exam to become certified to practice in their new state. Those that can't pass that exam after 3, IIRC, attempts cannot practice in the state. The number and time frame may vary from state to state.

I worked in a nursing department many years ago while I was in school. That's how I picked out my future daughter's pediatrician.

You guys just make this stuff up? They have to be licensed but they don't need to be certified to practice in Texas.

[MechAg94]

Not exactly 3rd world, but I used a dental surgeon in Houston whose degrees were Israel (not exactly 3rd world). He was an excellent surgeon and applied the local anesthetic better than any dentist/orthodontist I ever used.