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Below is the target that DPS used when I first took the test for my license in 2005.

It is a much better target for teaching people about shot placement for defensive use instead of the current target.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to encourage DPS to go back to this format?

Does anyone know why they changed away from this target?

I asked DPS that same question. When DPS changed the target form the TX-PT target to the B-27 target, it wasn't just for the CHL class. It was also for the DPS Academy. Switching back to the B-27 brought the point-of-aim (POA) to the true center-of-mass (COM) thus reducing the likelihood of rounds going high during a fight. (Palming is more common under stress.)

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 5:18 pm I asked DPS that same question. When DPS changed the target form the TX-PT target to the B-27 target, it wasn't just for the CHL class. It was also for the DPS Academy. Switching back to the B-27 brought the point-of-aim (POA) to the true center-of-mass (COM) thus reducing the likelihood of rounds going high during a fight. (Palming is more common under stress.)

Chas.

Interesting.

Also it is interesting that they expect the shots to go high rather than low.

Wasn't Browning's design of the arched mainspring housing on the 1911 and Glock's copy of the arch was to counteract the likelihood of the shot going low?

whenever I try to shoot under pressure (which is hard to replicate I real scenario but I usually use a timer of some sort i give myself x amount of seconds to shoot. kinda like they use for competitions) and my shots almost always go a tad low.

I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

kg5ie wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:49 pm I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

I know a lot of ranges dont allow "headshots" and a few of them allow you to do head shots but only if you turn the target upside down. (kinda stupid in my opinion) but to each their own.

I'd surmise that if rounds are hitting towards the 12 o'clock of the point of aim, it's more likely attributable to a flash sight picture (intentionally only acquiring the front sight during rapid, close-in engagements) or to an improper sight alignment if attempting deliberate, aimed fire. The point of impact will be whichever direction the front sight is oriented when the round breaks.

I've seen the tendency to tighten the entire grip concurrent with the trigger squeeze during stress engagements ("heeling" the gun, or tightening the muscle below the thumb) result in a 6 o'clock POI, or tightening both the grip AND squeezing with the pinky finger result in a 7-8 o'clock POI for a right handed shooter (4-5 o'clock grouping for a left-handed shooter).

I'm wondering if the DPS switch to the B-27 & concerns of shooting high were around the same time they adopted the .357 Sig. With the higher recoil of the .357 Sig, I can imagine some new Troopers having difficulty with recoil management & lack of follow-through resulting in shooting high.

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:09 pm

kg5ie wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:49 pm I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

I know a lot of ranges dont allow "headshots" and a few of them allow you to do head shots but only if you turn the target upside down. (kinda stupid in my opinion) but to each their own.

The ranges that don't allow "head shots", or flip the target upside down, do that to keep people from shooting the target carriers.

GhostTX wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:36 pm

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:09 pm

kg5ie wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:49 pm I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

I know a lot of ranges dont allow "headshots" and a few of them allow you to do head shots but only if you turn the target upside down. (kinda stupid in my opinion) but to each their own.

The ranges that don't allow "head shots", or flip the target upside down, do that to keep people from shooting the target carriers.

ah. i guess that makes sense.

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:09 pm

kg5ie wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:49 pm I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

I know a lot of ranges dont allow "headshots" and a few of them allow you to do head shots but only if you turn the target upside down. (kinda stupid in my opinion) but to each their own.

That's because they don't want you to damage the hangers.

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 10:31 pm whenever I try to shoot under pressure (which is hard to replicate I real scenario but I usually use a timer of some sort i give myself x amount of seconds to shoot. kinda like they use for competitions) and my shots almost always go a tad low.

I’m curious..... do you alaready have a good sight picture when that happens?

I can’t provide a hard source for this, but I remember hearing somewhere that it isn’t uncommon for an officer who is shooting under duress to put his first shot into the ground hear the perp’s feet because he pulls the trigger while raising the gun from the low-ready, before he has a sight picture. That may be pure hoakum, or maybe it used to be true but that modern training techniques have eliminated the problem. I would expect that pushing the gun out from a “Sul” position instead of raising it from the low-ready might help to mitigate shots into the ground, but I don’t know if it would raise shots that are low in the center of mass.

WildRose wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:14 am

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 8:09 pm

kg5ie wrote: ↑Tue May 29, 2018 2:49 pm I think the PC police got involved too. Something along the lines of "rewarding for head shots."

I know a lot of ranges dont allow "headshots" and a few of them allow you to do head shots but only if you turn the target upside down. (kinda stupid in my opinion) but to each their own.

That's because they don't want you to damage the hangers.

If that's true they would also ban targets like this with aiming points even closer to the clips.

We had many training sessions with people screaming at us running behind us cars honking and lots of distractions, try one running the outer range property lines prior to first shot. Water thrown on you shooting, we did it all, add a burst of FA fire while shooting to it, all sure does make a difference.


Just a question for some here Know why the 1st target was blue?
I do.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:58 am

Grundy1133 wrote: ↑Mon May 28, 2018 10:31 pm whenever I try to shoot under pressure (which is hard to replicate I real scenario but I usually use a timer of some sort i give myself x amount of seconds to shoot. kinda like they use for competitions) and my shots almost always go a tad low.

I’m curious..... do you alaready have a good sight picture when that happens?

I can’t provide a hard source for this, but I remember hearing somewhere that it isn’t uncommon for an officer who is shooting under duress to put his first shot into the ground hear the perp’s feet because he pulls the trigger while raising the gun from the low-ready, before he has a sight picture. That may be pure hoakum, or maybe it used to be true but that modern training techniques have eliminated the problem. I would expect that pushing the gun out from a “Sul” position instead of raising it from the low-ready might help to mitigate shots into the ground, but I don’t know if it would raise shots that are low in the center of mass.

Normal shooting where I shoot from low ready and giving myself enough time to get a good sight picture it's pretty accurate. I'm thinking maybe because i'm trying to put myself under pressure and drawing from a holster, I'm anticipating the recoil before i shoot. Something I need to work on for sure.

Lena wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:25 am We had many training sessions with people screaming at us running behind us cars honking and lots of distractions, try one running the outer range property lines prior to first shot. Water thrown on you shooting, we did it all, add a burst of FA fire while shooting to it, all sure does make a difference.


Just a question for some here Know why the 1st target was blue?
I do.

Our police academy requires that cadets make a similar run with a time limit and of course placement requirements for shot strings. The SWAT training is even more strenuous and strict requirements for shot placement.