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My permit is on the way but while I'm waiting, is it ok to carry a gun on one's person if inside a car they own? I know I can carry out of plain sight in the car but does "out of plain site" include concealed on my person? Can I do this or should I just wait for the permit. This always struck me as a huge legal gray area.

bamhauser wrote:My permit is on the way but while I'm waiting, is it ok to carry a gun on one's person if inside a car they own? I know I can carry out of plain sight in the car but does "out of plain site" include concealed on my person? Can I do this or should I just wait for the permit. This always struck me as a huge legal gray area.

If you own it or drive it you can legally car in your car as long the gun is concealed. It doesn't have to be on your person.

Best of luck

and if you DO have it on your person (holster or pocket), remember you are ONLY legal to do so as long as you REMAIN in your car.
Lets say you get pulled over by the police.
They say "step out of the car"
As soon as you step out of the car, you are technically breaking the law.

So my suggestion is keep it in your vehicle - CONCEALED - but not on your person

Teamless wrote:and if you DO have it on your person (holster or pocket), remember you are ONLY legal to do so as long as you REMAIN in your car.
Lets say you get pulled over by the police.
They say "step out of the car"
As soon as you step out of the car, you are technically breaking the law.

So my suggestion is keep it in your vehicle - CONCEALED - but not on your person

I agree with Teamless. If I carry under the authority of the Motorist Protection Act instead of the authority of LTC, I put it in my glovebox. Still within reach, but also secure in the event of a collision, out of plain sight, and easily lockable if I have to leave it in the car for one reason or another.

Teamless wrote:and if you DO have it on your person (holster or pocket), remember you are ONLY legal to do so as long as you REMAIN in your car.
Lets say you get pulled over by the police.
They say "step out of the car"
As soon as you step out of the car, you are technically breaking the law.

So my suggestion is keep it in your vehicle - CONCEALED - but not on your person

IANAL, but it seems to me that if a LEO orders you to do something illegal, then you should not be charged with that crime. Otherwise, we always have a very reasonable excuse for refusing to follow LEO orders that we think could possibly be illegal.

That said, I can see no benefit to carrying a gun on your person while you are in a vehicle. It is almost never the most accessible, or most comfortable, place to have your weapon. In fact, I frequently have an empty holster on my hip with my gun in the center console or door pocket when I am driving.

I think it's perfectly legit to carry under MPA as long as the gun is concealed. Under your shirt would be fine, with the possible exception of uncomfortable misunderstandings with law enforcement.

You're covered going to and from your car, as long as you're going directly to and from a place you can legally carry. Walking out of your house to your car with a peacemaker under your shirt is fine, just maybe a little edgy.

I've thought a little about disarming, and for me the solution is be safe and discreet. When I unholster, my gun is no longer strictly concealed, and it's not in a shoulder or belt holster as required for open carry.

My reasoning is if I unholster in a way nobody notices, it's effectively still concealed. I always disarm where required to, generally with an eye out for someplace more civilized to be.

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
IANAL, but it seems to me that if a LEO orders you to do something illegal, then you should not be charged with that crime. Otherwise, we always have a very reasonable excuse for refusing to follow LEO orders that we think could possibly be illegal.

As I see it, if an officer orders you to leave your vehicle, that is a legal(lawful) order, not an illegal order in-itself.
Its the fact that YOU are carrying on your body and if you follow their lawful order you are then committing an illegal act.

I would find it much simpler to be able to comply with their lawful request, without having that worry, than have to explain "Im sorry Mr. Police officer, I have a gun in my pocket (or on my body in some holster (hopefully!)) and have them wonder (1) If they are an LTC, why didn't they give me their license or (2)If they dont have an LTC, I wonder why they are carrying on body....

Teamless wrote:

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
IANAL, but it seems to me that if a LEO orders you to do something illegal, then you should not be charged with that crime. Otherwise, we always have a very reasonable excuse for refusing to follow LEO orders that we think could possibly be illegal.

As I see it, if an officer orders you to leave your vehicle, that is a legal(lawful) order, not an illegal order in-itself.
Its the fact that YOU are carrying on your body and if you follow their lawful order you are then committing an illegal act.

I would find it much simpler to be able to comply with their lawful request, without having that worry, than have to explain "Im sorry Mr. Police officer, I have a gun in my pocket (or on my body in some holster (hopefully!)) and have them wonder (1) If they are an LTC, why didn't they give me their license or (2)If they dont have an LTC, I wonder why they are carrying on body....

That's an interesting distinction. I guess it goes to the fact that the officer is ordering you to do something illegal, for you, but the officer has no way of knowing that he/she is ordering you to do something illegal. An analogy might be to a LEO ordering a convicted sex offender to walk toward them when the LEO is within the restricted distance of a school. Or a LEO ordering someone to move within X distance of someone else who has a restraining order against them. So in general, a person following that order would not be doing anything illegal, but unbeknownst to the LEO they actually are ordering that specific person to do something which would be illegal for that person to do. IANAL, and have no idea whether the person so ordered could then legally refuse to follow the order.

But aside from the academic consideration, I maintain that as a practical matter, it is much better all around to just conceal your weapon off body while driving. It's more comfortable, and easier to access the weapon. Plus you avoid potential misunderstandings with LEO's.

I think in that sort of situation most LEO's are reasonable enough to hear you out if you say, "I'm sorry, sir, but I can't do that because..."
Situation depending, obviously.

If you're going to be armed in your vehicle per the MPA, keep it available, but not on you.

I have an LTC and could legally carry it on my person while driving if stopped by LE had it become necessary to get out of my vehicle, but don't. Why not? Because it's more comfortable to have it within immediate reach/access than feel it's bulky/strapped presence on me.

When I stop to go wherever, I strap it on before exiting my vehicle.

Of course, the simplest thing is: Go to the minor paper work/class effort and yes some expense to get your LTC.

Problem solved.

If I were carrying under MPA on my person and I was asked to step out of my car by a police officer, I would comply and immediately tell the officer I was carrying and why.

On the ride to the jailhouse, I'd remind myself of the benefits of a CHL. Or, if I didn't take the ride, I'd hie me to the nearest, quickest CHL class I could find and get licensed.

Regarding carrying while driving, I respect the idea of disarming if that's what seems right.

Personally, I carry while driving all the time. Not "all the time" in the sense of doing it frequently. All the time. I don't drive without something IWB.

I haven't been stopped while carrying, but if I am, I anticipate a peaceful discussion. I'd lead with a grin, "Howdy, officer, I'm licensed and enjoying the privilege. What can I do for you?"

All my conversations with police about citizen carry in the last few years have been quite cordial. The only admonishment I've gotten is a reminder to be safe, given in a friendly manner.

I guess I feel I have a civil right to carry, endorsed by the State of Texas. A Constitutional Amendment and a lot of law stands on my side, I'm not doing anything wrong, and I have precisely zero reservations about carrying anywhere. Which is to say everywhere, save the Post Office and a bank that's posted. Local banks I deal with that aren't posted, I carry because I know to the full extent of my soul there's nothing wrong with doing so.

But I hope I cause no offense. Each should carry according to his wishes, with certain limitations.

I speak, of course, of Cooper's four rules. Some laws are not subject to court interpretation.