Do bullet weights actually matter?....

[MrMcCullster]

Do bullet weights actually matter....when "qualifying" a gun to be carried?

By qualifying I mean, has it gone through enough range testing of my specific self defense carry ammo that I would feel comfortable carrying it. I'm not really concerned with FMJ.

My base numbers for qualifying is 600 rounds of FMJ (don't care about bullet weights), and 200 rounds of the actual self defense ammo that I am going to use. I want to make sure that my new 9mm can cycle my carry ammo reliably, but I fear I might be taking things too far.

I purchased a smaller, more compact 9mm pistol back in January to replace my larger service pistol that I was getting by with.

My EDC round that I decided upon was the Federal Premium HST 9mm, so I went to the store and picked up 4 boxes of 20 rounds of the 150 grain 9mm HST, but never shot them. Later, I stumbled across the law enforcement HST +P 9mm round in 124 grain and was happy with the ballistics gelatin tests and expansion numbers, so I bought two boxes of 50 rounds. My 9mm cycled the 100 +P rounds with no issues.

Unfortunately, the site does not have the exact same grain (124 grain HST +P) that I previously purchased and started qualifying with. They do however have the larger 147 grain HST +P) in stock.

Am I being too crazy about this? Does it really matter if they are from the same manufacturer, same load (I assume), just different bullet weights? If I fire the 147 grain HST +P, should I call it good and carry on?

[parabelum]

It all depends on you the shooter and the gun that you'll carry.

For me personally, I carry either federal 147gr jhp or Grizzly 147gr+p in my 9mm guns. Those two brands have never failed in any of my Glocks, including the little g43, as well as H&K usp9c.

All my Sig guns are in 45 and 357. I carry federal or Speer jhp in 125gr weight for 357, Buffalo bore 230gr+p in 45. Over several hundred rds through those with no issues.

My test is to shoot 100 rds of carry ammo with at least two mags weak handed. If I have no hiccups I am comfortable with it.

I'll retest carry ammo every 3-4 months or as money / time permit.

In 9mm configuration specifically, I prefer heavier bullets for carry, and from the same manufacturer, just because I'm picky like that...

[K.Mooneyham]

IF the pistol in question has fixed sights, it may not shoot the same point-of-aim = point-of-impact with two different bullet weights, depending on the distance involved. In fact, I wish manufacturers of fixed sight handguns would say what bullet weight they used to set the sight height, as it would be helpful in choosing ammunition.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Generally speaking, relatively minor changes in bullet weight will not have an impact on functional reliability. Note I said "generally" as there are some exceptions. I don't own a Kimber Solo, but I've been told that they will not function reliably with 115 gr. JHP 9mm ammo, but they will with 124 gr. JHP 9mm. It's my understand that Kimber's owner's manual for that gun states that only 124 gr. ammo should be used.

I've never had a malfunction of a .45ACP, 40 S&W, 38 Super, or 9mm based upon the difference in bullet weight, so long as it was the same bullet design. I have had significant malfunctions with bullets of the same weight, but different design, even different HP designs.

200 rds of ammo was my personal standard for many years. I must admit that I no longer hold to that standard, due primarily to the absurd cost of premium self-defense ammo. I cannot tell students to spend $200 or more shooting 200 rds of self-defense ammo before carrying a self-defense handgun. More importantly, if a particular type of ammo isn't going to function reliably in a given handgun, it won't take 200 rds for the problem to reveal itself. You'll know it much sooner.

Another factor is the level of risk you are willing to accept. When I was using the 200 rd. reliability standard, was I really going to reject that type of ammo if I fired 199 rds reliably, but had one failure to feed or extract? The answer for me is "no." Heck, I wouldn't even reject ammo for one failure per 100 rds. That said, my self-defense ammo in all four of the semi-auto calibers I listed has been very reliable. In fact, it has been so reliable I cannot recall the last failure, if any.

I think the real questions to be answered are 1) can I shoot certain ammo well (ex. bullet weight, +P, +P+, magnum, etc.); and 2) is the ammo accurate in my gun of choice. This can be determined in far less than 200 rds. I also think it is important to practice with the self-defense ammo you carry, but only in reasonable numbers. The match and practice ammo I reload has the same bullet weight and velocity as in my self-defense ammo (230 gr 45ACP, 124gr 9mm & 38 Super). I prefer Gold Dot hollow points for self-defense, so I buy them in 1,000 rds lots so I can load some practice ammo to factory specs. This allows me to fire 100 rds or so a month with a round that precisely matches factory ammo, but at a fraction of the cost. My goal for all practice is 100 a day for 5 days a week, but that usually works out to only 2 or 3 days a week. There's no way I would shoot that much factory self-defense ammo, or even my ammo using Gold Dot bullets. This is why I want to duplicate my self-defense ammo in terms of bullet weight and velocity. Shooting either Precision Delta FMJ bullets, or Bayou Bullets coated bullets, I can duplicate the felt recoil and muzzle flip of factory ammo. I know some guys shooting in competition load to the minimum power factor to reduce recoil. If my goal was to win a match, I might do the same. For me, IDPA matches are practice for the day we all pray never comes, so I shoot full-power loads.

I won't disclose what my new self-defense reliability standard is, because I don't want other people to stake their lives on my experience. It will say that it no longer anywhere close to 200 rounds.

Chas.

[hovercat]

Most ammo is made to give a standard recoil impulse, so that it will operate in most firearms, talking handguns here. Heavier bullets are slower.
Most problems are with bullet shape and overall cartridge length. A bullet with a flat nose may not feed properly if your feed ramp is not designed for it. A short cartridge may flip up and catch on the top of the chamber, brcause the magazine was designed for the standard ball cartridge.
To top it all, each individual firearm has it's moods.

[Pariah3j]

I guess I'm doing it wrong

My method for determining reliability before I make a gun a carry gun is to shoot at least 500 rounds through the gun. For cost purposes, this is general FMJ ammo of various manufacturers and weights. Once I feel confident that it feeds that well without any issue, I will run at least a box, usually 2 of the self-defense ammo I intend to carry to make sure it's going to feed properly. My personal experience has been that ammo that doesn't feed well or is going to cause major problems, is going to reveal itself in the first few magazines.

I guess I never really considered the weight of the round to be much of a factor, for me, I find the biggest determining factor is the shape/style of bullet. Personally, I just don't like to carry any gun that is picky about ammo, I tend to like the guns that 'eat' anything I throw at it without issue.

[The Annoyed Man]

I've been getting lazy in my advanced years.

Frankly, I don't worry about it too much. My carry choice over the years has devolved to everyone's "lowest common denominator"........9mm Glocks. For those pistols, I have settled on the two following ammo choices: For my G17, G19, and G26, I carry Hornady +P 135 grain Flexlock Critical Duty. For the G43, I use Corbon 115 Grain +P DPX.....because I already had some on hand for another 3" barreled 9mm I used to own. The decision to carry Hornady was primarily influenced by that being the available choice at the time that I was buying, and by having previously been satisfied with its performance in other guns. Had HST been more easily available at the time, I might have bought that instead, but it wasn't.

By nature, the Glock pistols are very reliable. Whenever I have acquired a new one, I've run a box or two of FMJ through it to break it in and ensure that the gun functions, and then I've run a box or two of carry ammo through it to ensure that the ammo works in that gun. Being Glocks, none of them has malfunctioned with either kind of ammo. Accuracy has been typical for Glocks, which is to say, acceptable combat accuracy. In other guns where I have had some reliability issues, those issues cropped up almost immediately during break in. In the Kahr pistols I've owned, the problems went away after 200 rounds......just like the factory said they would. The Glocks have never really required any break in. A 3" Kimber 1911 I used to carry did require a break in. With 1 exception, the other 1911s I've owned came to me used, and break in was not an issue. The exception was a 4" Sig GSR 1911, which I got rid of because I never could get it to function reliably, regardless of ammo choice or magazine brand. Like my Glocks, neither my XDM or XDS appeared to need a break in. Similarly, my M&P45 and a USP Compact .40 I used to own were all dead reliable right out of the box, and never hiccuped.

For my .45s.....which I rarely carry anymore.....I've settled on 230 grain Federal HST, except for my XDS45, which I load with 185 grain FTX Critical Defense (900 fps/333 ft-lbs, from a 3" barrel).

But I established a long time ago what ammo works and what doesn't in my guns, and I long ago established the guns' reliability. Lately, I could use more range time, but have been unable to get to the range for various reasons. Consequently, my ammo consumption is way down.

Anyway, it seems to me that pretty much all of the modern, better quality polymer framed guns (Glock, S&W, Springfield) are omnivorous, and the problem is less one of mechanical reliability, than it is one of the accuracy of a given cartridge in a given gun, and a matter of picking a load and bullet that will best accomplish whatever your needs are. I like the HST and the Critical Duty because they appear to be more "barrier blind" than other bullets ....at least under gun-writer testing..... but in the end, you never really know how the bullet is going to perform until you can recover it for examination. I simply trust that most people don't want to be shot, and will behave accordingly, and I trust that most ammo will perform well enough to stop someone if you have to shoot them.

So my advice is, do give it some thought, but don't over-think it.

[cyphur]

I've found that picky pistols care more about OAL and bullet geometry than weight. You'll figure that out way before you hit 200 rounds.


Like most I talk to, I run a few hundred rounds of FMJ before I even try the SD ammo. Make sure the gun is reliable first.

[Charles L. Cotton]

I guess I'm doing it wrong

My method for determining reliability before I make a gun a carry gun is to shoot at least 500 rounds through the gun. . . .

If my post gave the impression I would carry a gun for self-defense with less than 200 rds. through it, then I need to clarify. I was talking about using a gun for EDC with far less than 200 rds of self-defense ammo having been fired, not less than 200 rds total. I'm with Pariah3j in that I shoot at least 500 rds through a gun before proclaiming it reliable in the overall sense. Only then do I test my favorite self-defense ammo.

Chas.

[flechero]

I don't think the weight itself matters much for reliability... not nearly as much as the OAL and bullet shape/profile. In fact, a change in lot number alone can be the difference in a few thousandths OAL (long or short) or crimp, and that can make a difference.

Regardless of how many rounds you shoot before you trust the gun, make sure you shoot a qty or your SD ammo and any subsequent SD ammo you want to carry. Because almost NO 2 JHP's are alike. And even 2 that look very close, one may not even feed while the other runs like a sewing machine.

Unfortunately, the site does not have the exact same grain (124 grain HST +P) that I previously purchased and started qualifying with. They do however have the larger 147 grain HST +P) in stock.

Am I being too crazy about this? Does it really matter if they are from the same manufacturer, same load (I assume), just different bullet weights? If I fire the 147 grain HST +P, should I call it good and carry on?

The 147gr projectiles are longer than the 124's... and ammo is obviously of different lots. So the OAL may or may not be the same, crimp may or may not be the same, etc. Also, they are not the same load... the weight difference requires a different charge- they could use a different charge weight or a totally different powder altogether.

[cmgee67]

I must be an odd ball it seems. I don't have the time or money to go and shoot 500 round break in and 200 round SD ammo. Typically I shoot 200 rounds of fmj and 50-100 rounds of SD ammo and call it good. If a gun is going to have problems it's going to show up quickly in most cases. I currently carry 230gr federal hydrashocks in my 45 shield and hornady American gunner 124 grain +P in my Glock 19. Like others have stated think about it but don't over think it.

[Liberty]

Although I agree with the consensus that a change in bullet weight doesn't matter much for the same style bullet reliability wise. It's important to remember that small changes can affect the way we shoot.

I was at the range practicing rapid fire with my subcompact Beretta using my standard Winchester White Box 115 grain ammo like I always do. I decided I would rotate out my defense ammo that I had been carrying for well over a year. I discovered my follow up shots on my double taps weren't as fast smooth or accurate with the Hornady Critical Defense 124 gr. These days I use 124 gr for all my range shooting and I have found that it shoots feels a lot like my defensive ammo.

[Pariah3j]

I must be an odd ball it seems. I don't have the time or money to go and shoot 500 round break in and 200 round SD ammo. Typically I shoot 200 rounds of fmj and 50-100 rounds of SD ammo and call it good. If a gun is going to have problems it's going to show up quickly in most cases. I currently carry 230gr federal hydrashocks in my 45 shield and hornady American gunner 124 grain +P in my Glock 19. Like others have stated think about it but don't over think it.

My 500 rounds is over 2-3 months. Considering when I go to the range, I don't shoot less then 100rds. 9mm is fairly cheap so I tend to buy at least 50rds every time I stop by academy or Walmart. The reason behind the 500 for me, is just the break in period of the gun. Modern guns it may not be as much of an issue, but I remember reading somewhere at one point that most guns need at least that many rounds before they be begin to settle/break in properly. Granted, I have a couple of EDCs at this point, so I can wait until a new gun is broke in and tested before I add a gun to that rotation. My first pistol, probably didn't have but about 100rds through it before I started car carrying it around back in the day.

[MechAg94]

If you want to use Federal HST ammo, buy it online. You are paying way too much buying 20 round boxes. Look at SGammo.com or Ammunitiondepot.com. You can get Federal HST 9mm ammo for less than $30 per box of 50. That should make it much much easier to burn through 200 rounds. Similar prices on HST 45 ammo also. IMO, the markup on some self defense ammo is outrageous.

Sometimes I have seen similar pricing for 50 round boxes of HST or Speer gold dot at guns shows, but it depends on the show and which dealers are there.

[MechAg94]

I haven't always burned through 200 rounds of self defense ammo. However, I do try to shoot a couple of magazines worth. I also try to occasionally empty my carry gun as if I was using it. Take it in loaded and empty it into the target without messing with the mag or anything. I figure that is as good a test of reliability as I can get. If it malfunctions due to being dirty or collecting dust/lint that should show up. I have had guns malfunction on me doing that. The main one I remember was a Sig P229 I kept in my truck console. It had been there for a while unused and couldn't make it through the magazine when I emptied it.