TexasCHLforum.com

Here's the situation.

I live in a Texas subdivision that has community mailboxes. The mailbox for my house is down a few houses from mine. On several occasions, the resident of that house allows their large (pitbull like) dog to run freely in the front yard or from the curb to the home. On 2 occasions the dog has charged me while I was going to pick up the mail. The owner calls the dog and so far nothing has happened but I am not sure how long my luck or the dog's training will hold out.

As a CHL holder and a result of the continued instances of the dog being loose I've decided it's now necessary to carry when I go to collect my mail. Furthermore, I've stopped my wife and child from collecting the mail.

But if and when it becomes necessary to pull and shoot to stop this dog at what point am I justified ?

When the dog charges ? Within a certain distance ? Must I get bitten first ? What if all of this occurs within the property lines of the residents yard* ?

*The person with the dog is not the owner of the house, but either a sporadic renter or friends of the residents. I confirmed this through license plate searches and tax records.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

I'm not sure of the mailbox configuration, but I would wait until the dog was off the owners property if feasible.

I'm assuming you have talked to the dog owner and not gotten anywhere? You may also want to clearly document the situation through video combined with complaints to animal enforcement, etc., now. That way if the unfortunate situation occurs where you are forced to shoot the dog, you will have as much legal ammo as possible (pardon the pun).

EdnaBambrick wrote:Here's the situation.

I live in a Texas subdivision that has community mailboxes. The mailbox for my house is down a few houses from mine. On several occasions, the resident of that house allows their large (pitbull like) dog to run freely in the front yard or from the curb to the home. On 2 occasions the dog has charged me while I was going to pick up the mail. The owner calls the dog and so far nothing has happened but I am not sure how long my luck or the dog's training will hold out.

As a CHL holder and a result of the continued instances of the dog being loose I've decided it's now necessary to carry when I go to collect my mail. Furthermore, I've stopped my wife and child from collecting the mail.

But if and when it becomes necessary to pull and shoot to stop this dog at what point am I justified ?

When the dog charges ? Within a certain distance ? Must I get bitten first ? What if all of this occurs within the property lines of the residents yard* ?

*The person with the dog is not the owner of the house, but either a sporadic renter or friends of the residents. I confirmed this through license plate searches and tax records.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

First I would report the dog to who ever handles animal control calls in your area. Even on their property, they are not supposed to allow the dog to be able to run without a leash. Second, take your phone with you and have the video ready to go before you get to the mailbox, show the video to the animal control people. along with vehicle LP, dog owner etc.

Lastly, your life is more important than a dog's, so do whatever you have to do to protect yourself. Your wife and children may not now be going to get mail, but someone else's children might be.JMHO

I think you should also report this to the local Postmaster.
If you have formal, written reports to both the Postmaster and animal control and they are unable to control this situation, you have even more justification to protect yourself.

Get some high quality pepper spray and a belt clip holster for it, plus some Sedecon Decontamination wipes if you accidentally spray yourself .

Defensive Devices sells this stuff as do others on the internet.

DO NOT depend on some no-name brand you can get at the pharmacy or grocery store. That stuff doesn't work. I should know, I used it to no affect on two separate occasions, and then I started buying the quality spray that works.

Fox Brand or Freeze Plus P or Sabre are some of the effective brands.

You won't injure the attacking dogs if it comes to that, but you'll sure dissuade them. Aim for the eyes, nose, mouth.

P.S. I've sprayed many attacking dogs and pepper spray works 99% of the time.

I had an aggressive Pit Bull wondering my area. I spoke to animal control as he did not belong to a neighbor. Not wanting to kill the dog, I used some bear spray on him one day that a Forrest Ranger had recommended to me up in CO. One spray and I never saw the dog again. I did have a .40 on me if I needed back up.

Unfortunately there are no state statues that clearly give you defense if you shoot the dog, whether you are a LTC holder or not.

Here's a thread from this forum on the subject:
http://www.texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=9446

Rather than carrying your gun, perhaps carry Bear Spray.

Technically you are on better grounds if the offending dog attacks your dog if you are going to shoot it. Buy a sjambok for $15. That will solve your problem.

If you did actually shoot the dog, the protection you would need is here:

PC §9.22. NECESSITY. Conduct is justified if:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the conduct is immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm;
(2) the desirability and urgency of avoiding the harm clearly outweigh, according to ordinary standards of reasonableness, the harm sought to be prevented by the law proscribing the conduct; and
(3) a legislative purpose to exclude the justification claimed for the conduct does not otherwise plainly appear.

The only problem is that if you were charged, it would be up to you (or rather, your attorney) to prove you were justified under PC §9.22.

EdnaBambrick wrote:Here's the situation.

I live in a Texas subdivision that has community mailboxes. The mailbox for my house is down a few houses from mine. On several occasions, the resident of that house allows their large (pitbull like) dog to run freely in the front yard or from the curb to the home. On 2 occasions the dog has charged me while I was going to pick up the mail. The owner calls the dog and so far nothing has happened but I am not sure how long my luck or the dog's training will hold out.

As a CHL holder and a result of the continued instances of the dog being loose I've decided it's now necessary to carry when I go to collect my mail. Furthermore, I've stopped my wife and child from collecting the mail.

But if and when it becomes necessary to pull and shoot to stop this dog at what point am I justified ?

When the dog charges ? Within a certain distance ? Must I get bitten first ? What if all of this occurs within the property lines of the residents yard* ?

*The person with the dog is not the owner of the house, but either a sporadic renter or friends of the residents. I confirmed this through license plate searches and tax records.

Thanks for any advice you can give.

First and most important legal point.

If the subdivision dedicated the street rights-of-way to the approving political subdivision, then in all likelyhood, the first 8 to 12 feet from the back of the curb are PUBLIC property and so is the community mail box. If the dog comes at you then, His own yard is not an element of what happens.

Check your subdivision plat and the approving authority for more definite information.

rotor wrote:Technically you are on better grounds if the offending dog attacks your dog if you are going to shoot it. Buy a sjambok for $15. That will solve your problem.

I've been trying to find a sjambok for sale. Most of the ones I've seen are out of stock.

I'd be inclined to also warn the dog's owner that if their dog actually attacks me while I'm getting my mail, I'm not going to wait to get bit before I do something permanent to stop the attack. You have a right to defend yourself. They have zero right to leave a dangerous dog loose on their property. It's pretty open and shut.

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:Technically you are on better grounds if the offending dog attacks your dog if you are going to shoot it. Buy a sjambok for $15. That will solve your problem.

I've been trying to find a sjambok for sale. Most of the ones I've seen are out of stock.

Wouldn't that qualify as a club? Can you legally carry one?

The Annoyed Man wrote:I'd be inclined to also warn the dog's owner that if their dog actually attacks me while I'm getting my mail, I'm not going to wait to get bit before I do something permanent to stop the attack. You have a right to defend yourself. They have zero right to leave a dangerous dog loose on their property. It's pretty open and shut.

mojo84 wrote:

rotor wrote:Technically you are on better grounds if the offending dog attacks your dog if you are going to shoot it. Buy a sjambok for $15. That will solve your problem.

I've been trying to find a sjambok for sale. Most of the ones I've seen are out of stock.

Wouldn't that qualify as a club? Can you legally carry one?

My mom carries pepper spray and a walking stick in our neighborhood because of aggressive dogs, but I'm out past city limits.

How about carrying a cane with a little extra bite?

https://www.amazon.com/Zap-Defense-Flas ... taser+cane

There are several YouTube videos about it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... fense+Cane

TAM, it may be but I would probably take my chances if I could get one and had a menacing dog nearby. I live in the country and wouldn't hesitate to carry it on my walks.

Would be interested in a definitive answer though if anyone has one,